Cap1 & CCA return

[e28bigalbexley]

 

Trading Standards ( or whatever their new group names is) will be as slow as any other regulatory body. Their advantage is they take the pressure off us so we can get on with other claims

 

 

BOO

 

Consumer Direct (NOT)

When i phoned them about my iffy CCA 'copy of the executed agreement' which has several glaring mistakes (at least 6) they said sumone would get back to me in 24 hours, give them there due, they did, about four hours later where they asked for my phone number and said they would get back to me again ia a couple of days. Well 2 weeks later ( I rung again) the woman lost my number and now shes on holiday till monday. Dont you wish you could................

 

 

 

 

[un1boy]

lmao

[Guest The Terminator]

The voices are really getting to them now lmao

 

So doe's that mean that the minimum qualification to be a MIB has reduced from an IQ of 1 to an IQ of -3

[Number6]

It's now very awkward to deal with Trading Standards. I have spent a good part of today trying to get some information about the inter-relationship of the CCA with the 1983 Copies of Documents regulations; it relates to the work tamadus, peterbard and I are doing on another thread.

 

You now have to ring Consumer Direct rather than the local TS office; I did this, spent 10 minutes explaining the question and the issues only to be told by "Wendy" that "this is too complex for my level of training, you'll have to speak to your local TS office" and she gave me the phone number.

 

I rang TS and explained the question again - "oh you'll need to speak to an education officer; they're in a meeting. I'll get someone to call you back after lunch."

 

I've just now had a call back and spoken to someone from my local TS office. I explained the problem again, "oh, you have to speak to Consumer Direct"! "I just did" I replied, "they told me to phone you". "Hang on I'll call you back" said TS.

 

Five minutes later she calls back. "Consumer Direct should have logged your details and passed them on to us here. They haven't so you'll need to speak to them again, they'll take the details and pass it on to us"

 

.....

 

Not good.

 

I've now arranged to email the query directly to the local TS office.....

 

I mean, bloomin' 'eck!! :o What a pallaver!!! 10.30 a.m. to 1.30 p.m. and I've only just got an address to send the question to!!!!!

 

Pete

[tamadus]

It's now very awkward to deal with Trading Standards. I have spent a good part of today trying to get some information about the inter-relationship of the CCA with the 1983 Copies of Documents regulations; it relates to the work tamadus, peterbard and I are doing on another thread.

 

You now have to ring Consumer Direct rather than the local TS office; I did this, spent 10 minutes explaining the question and the issues only to be told by "Wendy" that "this is too complex for my level of training, you'll have to speak to your local TS office" and she gave me the phone number.

 

I rang TS and explained the question again - "oh you'll need to speak to an education officer; they're in a meeting. I'll get someone to call you back after lunch."

 

I've just now had a call back and spoken to someone from my local TS office. I explained the problem again, "oh, you have to speak to Consumer Direct"! "I just did" I replied, "they told me to phone you". "Hang on I'll call you back" said TS.

 

Five minutes later she calls back. "Consumer Direct should have logged your details and passed them on to us here. They haven't so you'll need to speak to them again, they'll take the details and pass it on to us"

 

..... :mad:

 

Not good.

 

I've now arranged to email the query directly to the local TS office.....

 

I mean, bloomin' 'eck!! :o What a pallaver!!! 10.30 a.m. to 1.30 p.m. and I've only just got an address to send the question to!!!!!

 

Pete

 

I know what you mean Pete as I called them a couple of weeks ago with a question, only to end up with consumer direct who hadnt really got a clue. They refered me straight to the FOS and FSA which I already knew what their answer would be.

[Guest The Terminator]

I know what you mean Pete as I called them a couple of weeks ago with a question, only to end up with consumer direct who hadnt really got a clue. They refered me straight to the FOS and FSA which I already knew what their answer would be.

Do we really need TS when we are doing a good job on here by collectivley helping one another.I've just spoken to trading standards where I work(and I did it internally) and I got the same reply speak to CD.Really guys this is like banging your head against a brick wall they don't seem to want to commit themselves to anything and they all seem to be in their own little worlds.I'll tell you what im going to do as I work for a local authority I'm going to start leaning on some of the TS Officers until I get the answers I want.

 

Watch this space.

[un1boy]

Great Terminator!!!

 

If you need any help, let me know!

[Guest The Terminator]

Now this is what I call progress

 

 

Banks to be probed on charges | This is Money

[Guest The Terminator]

Great Terminator!!!

 

If you need any help, let me know!

 

Thanks un1boy

[tamadus]

Now this is what I call progress

 

 

Banks to be probed on charges | This is Money

 

Yes it is. Even better was the GMTV a couple of days ago where some top banker admitted that his bank ond none of the others would go to court because they would lose and it would cost them billions.

[tamadus]

LOts of other good articles on that site terminator

[tamadus]

As part of an ongoing investigation I am part of I need some details of the various companies application forms, particularly for credit cards.

 

In particular I need to know what companies use an application form that has the following words as its main title line. 'Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974'

 

In addition does the form have a 'right to cancel' box just above the signature line?

 

If any of you have in your possesion an application form I would like to know if it has these lines and what company it is for.

 

Many thanks.

 

Dave

[meagain]

Yes it is. Even better was the GMTV a couple of days ago where some top banker admitted that his bank ond none of the others would go to court because they would lose and it would cost them billions.

 

Did anyone get this on video? It would count as evidence both in court and in any investigation instigated by the OFT, FSA or ICO.

[alanfromderby]

I recall someone mentioning that they managed to take a video on their phone. I will investigate and post back.

[meagain]

I recall someone mentioning that they managed to take a video on their phone. I will investigate and post back.

 

If they at least get the date and time, it should be possible to get a copy of the segment from GMTV or ITV. Broadcasters are required by law to keep a copy of their broadcast output - this is primarily to facilitate the investigation of any complaint against them (apparently, if they don't have a copy, or have "lost" it, they automatically lose).

[dollies01]

In reply to Tamadus

As Ive mentioned before, I was sent a copy of my application form, for Capital one, as a result of my cca request.

I have just dug this out for you

The main title is : short application form 5188

at the very bottom of the form it says

CREDIT CARD ACCOUNT AGREEMENT

CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

then comes the usual bits about subject to status and credit scoring etc

then there are two boxes with my signature, one is illegible the other is the credit agreement

In a very tiny box right at the bottom it says

Your right to cancel

Once you have signed this agreement you will have for a short time the right to cancil it.

Exact details of how and when you can do this will be sent to you by post by Capital one.

Hope this helps?!

[tamadus]

Thanks Dollies and those who have PM'd details to me. IF possible a scan of the application form would be very useful, just PM me for my email address.

 

This is continuing a post number6 made a few weeks ago on another thread and it's part of the ongoing investigations we are running.

 

I can't say very much at the moment but about 5 of us are doing a lot of research the result of which is being passed to Ministerial level for a written reply. The end result could easily be some modifications in the CCA.

[poltmcm]

i have the original letter accompaying my barclaycard and it states on that you have only five day's to cancel the agreement in writing, i thought it was longer than this...................t&c's on the reverse of this also i never got a copy of my written agreement from them what so ever. as when i signed the application form it wasn't activated and then they are meant to sign it and send you a copy under the CCR's within 7 day's or with credit token(card). Also tamadus can you correct me but i thought that credit agreements written contracts have to state the actual amount of APR in them and if it changes they can then notify you of change in writing?

[Number6]

poltmcm

 

The CCA says:

 

60 Form and content of agreements

(1) The Secretary of State shall make regulations as to the form and content of documents

embodying regulated agreements, and the regulations shall contain such provisions as

appear to him appropriate with a view to ensuring that the debtor or hirer is made aware

of—

 

(a) the rights and duties conferred or imposed on him by the agreement,

 

(b) the amount and rate of the total charge for credit (in the case of a

consumer credit agreement),

 

© the protection and remedies available to him under this Act, and

 

(d) any other matters which, in the opinion of the Secretary of State, it is

desirable for him to know about in connection with the agreement.

 

So section 60 (1) (b) clearly says that the rate and total charge for credit must be shown.

 

Pete

[un1boy]

poltmcm

 

The CCA says:

 

 

 

So section 60 (1) (b) clearly says that the rate and total charge for credit must be shown.

 

Pete

 

On the actual agreement? Even if it says that you abide by the temrs and conditions, even though they are not supplied?

[poltmcm]

so in saying that then my application cannot be veiwed as a written agreement then, thanks number6

[Number6]

On the actual agreement? Even if it says that you abide by the temrs and conditions, even though they are not supplied?

 

Ah, now there's a rub. It says:

 

"with a view to ensuring that the debtor or hirer is made aware

of—

 

(a) the rights and duties conferred or imposed on him by the agreement,

 

(b) the amount and rate of the total charge for credit (in the case of a

consumer credit agreement),"

 

Does the phrase "ensuring the debtor or hirer is made aware of" sit well with a term of the agreement that simply says (along the lines of) "the debtor agrees to abide by grabitall's terms and conditions" if the APR etc is stated within those T&C's. IMHO it doesn't and I would suggest that the APR and total charge for credit should be in the body of the agreement.

 

Pete

[Number6]

so in saying that then my application cannot be veiwed as a written agreement then, thanks number6

 

You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment!

 

Pete

[un1boy]

So, what you're saying then (or the CCA is saying) is that even if I've been sent an agreement which is headed "CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED UNDER BYTHE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT1974"

 

then has my address and that of the bank's

 

then says, "I have read an agree to be bound by the terms and conditions attached."

 

then has a box with the right to cancel stuff in it

 

then has a box saying "This is a credit agreemtn regulated by the consumer credit act 1974. sign it only if you want to be legally bound byits terms. then has my sig and date on it.

 

Then has another box, "Signed on behalf of of the bank and date."

 

But nothing else (ie the APR)

 

then it is an unenforcable agreement?

[Number6]

So, what you're saying then (or the CCA is saying) is that even if I've been sent an agreement which is headed "CREDIT AGREEMENT REGULATED UNDER BYTHE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT1974"

 

then has my address and that of the bank's

 

then says, "I have read an agree to be bound by the terms and conditions attached."

 

then has a box with the right to cancel stuff in it

 

then has a box saying "This is a credit agreemtn regulated by the consumer credit act 1974. sign it only if you want to be legally bound byits terms. then has my sig and date on it.

 

Then has another box, "Signed on behalf of of the bank and date."

 

But nothing else (ie the APR)

 

then it is an unenforcable agreement?

 

No, I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that it is not clear cut and is subject to interpretation.

 

S60 says that the agreement must ensure that the debtor knows the total charge for credit and the rate of interest. I personally do not think that merely referring to obscure T&C's that are not embodied within the main agreement "ensures" such knowledge.

 

What I'm saying is it's arguable IMHO.

 

Pete