1st Credit pretending to be RBS - chasing old NatWest debt

[Yam950]

I've recently stopped paying a debt collector due to the fact that they cannot prove the debt is mine, and i am certain it was statute barred anyway, even though they claim it wasnt.

They admitted the debt was unenforceable, but i've already paid them over £600 over the past 3 years.

 

Is it worth me asking for a refund or would i be wasting my time?

[cerberusalert]

Unfortunately it would be seen as a gift from you to them. Even tho' the debt maybe unenforceable it still exists.

[Yam950]

Ahhhhh i thought as much cerebus. Guess i'll just write this off and forget it, as i'm thinking if i DO chase it and dont get anywhere is could come back and bite me on the ass at some point. Thought it was worth asking anyway.

Thanks for your reply

[Yam950]

Hi everyone.

About 4 years ago I was conacted by Connought Collections for an alleged debt.

Their letter threatened me with bankruptcy and bailiffs etc.

 

At that time i knew no better so i paid them £20 per month as I was about to finish my uni course and enter a professional job

so was scared that being made bankrupt could cost me my career.

 

I didnt remember the debt, but I did get divorced and had been left with a lot of debt, which i thought had been repaid by myself on settlement of the divorce.

 

I The DD just came out the bank and i never really though much of it.

 

Roll forward 3 years or so, and i now know much better through forums such as this.

 

I asked CC for a copy of the CCA because it suddenly dawned on me that i was paying a debt just because someone said it was mine and I hadnt actually any proof that it was.

 

CC could not provide any proof whatsoever that this debt was mine, so i stopped paying.

 

Several letter went back and forth and CC finally admitted they had no proof.

 

I also had a feeling that this debt is that old it would have been statute barred because its in a name i have not used for over 14 years, hence why i dont really recall the debt!

 

In actual fact, the gentleman i spoke to at CC to tell him i wouldnt be paying was very nice!

Even sent me a letter saying they couldnt pursue and that would be that.

 

2 weeks ago I got a letter from what i thought was th Royal Bank of Scotland saying i owed them £900 and could i call as a matter of urgency.

So I did as i do not and never have owed RBS money.

 

It was in fact 1st Credit! The letter was on photocopied RBS letter headed paper!

 

I explained that as far as i was concerned there was no proof the debt was mine and i wouldnt be paying,

and why where they pretending to be RBS! He said RBS is part of Nat West who I allegedly owe the money to - but they sent it on RBS paper!

 

I explained I wouldnt be paying because there is no proof the debt is mine and until it can be proved.

He said if i didnt pay my credit score would be affected etc etc etc.

Again I asked for proof it was mine. I also asked how they could affect my credit score if the debt may not be mine.

He pretty much put the phone down on me!

 

Yesterday I got a letter from 1st credit saying they appreciate i have requested a copy of the CCA and i have not disputed the fact

i benefitted from the agreement and borrowed money from the bank!

 

This is a big fat lie! I have never said to them I had borrowed any money!.

They go on to say that as such it seems clear there is no dispute over the fact that funds borrowed are required to be repaind

and even if the agreement was not enforceable, it is clear from case law, this only prevents one party from enforcing the agreement throught he couts,

it does not prevent collections activity or placing of information on the credit file.

They then ask me to respond to discuss repayment.

 

What should I do? Can they send me letters pretending to be RBS, and can they pursue this debt even though they do not, by their own admission, have a shred of proof it is mine?

 

many thanks in advance

[whyme-agen]

Hi,

 

Someone will be here to advise.

 

Keep off the phone to these clowns, keep everything you may need to do in writing.

 

Cheers

[dx100uk]

typical spoofing tactics by CC & 1st crapit.

 

check your CRA file

 

if the debt does not show - end of!

 

and stay off the phone to DCA's etc

NEVER EVER talk about your debt on the phone to ANYONE.

 

dx

[Yam950]

Thanks both of you. I dont usually call DC but they sent me a letter I thought was from RBS, its on official paper and everythign and was signed by someone apparently at RBS Collections.

 

Also - the title of my thread has been changed, but this isnt an old RBS debt.....the letter was sent by 1st Credit PRETENDING to be RBS so i would call. The debt is apparently an is Nat West one.

 

Also do i need to write to them and tell them to back off? I've not checked my credit file as i found it very difficult to cancel the £14.99 monthly fee last time and dont want the hassle. It hadnt showed up 3 months ago so I assume it was never there int he first place? Can 1st Credit put anythign on my file if it wasnt there int he first place?

Edited October 23, 2011 by Yam950

[dx100uk]

check your CRA file before you do anythig

sorry about the thread name

that was me merging stuff

i'll sort it.

 

dx

[Yam950]

check your CRA file before you do anythig

sorry about the thread name

that was me merging stuff

i'll sort it.

 

dx

 

Ok ill check and come back

 

And thank you for the advice

[dadofholly]

Thanks both of you. I dont usually call DC but they sent me a letter I thought was from RBS, its on official paper and everythign and was signed by someone apparently at RBS Collections.

 

Also - the title of my thread has been changed, but this isnt an old RBS debt.....the letter was sent by 1st Credit PRETENDING to be RBS so i would call. The debt is apparently an is Nat West one.

 

Also do i need to write to them and tell them to back off? I've not checked my credit file as i found it very difficult to cancel the £14.99 monthly fee last time and dont want the hassle. It hadnt showed up 3 months ago so I assume it was never there int he first place? Can 1st Credit put anythign on my file if it wasnt there int he first place?

 

Have you contacted RBS to see if the person named on the letter actually exists?

 

Have you sent 1stcredit a cca request? if not do so - if the paperwork never existed before it is unlikley to exist now.

 

Then - and this is the important bit - complain to both your local trading standards and the OFT.

 

If they are pretending to be someone else - i.e. mislead you to the validity of a claim - in order to make a financial gain - i.e. make you pay money to them which they may not be entitled to - then they are committing an act of Fraud.

 

At the least thy are deliberatley misleading you by pretending to be RBS and that is aginst he OFT debt collection guidlines.

 

Here is the link to the CCA request - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter.

[dpick]

As DX say's above check your CRA file First Crud have been known to play about with peoples CRA files when they have no right to.

 

dpick

[Yam950]

Have you contacted RBS to see if the person named on the letter actually exists?

 

Have you sent 1stcredit a cca request? if not do so - if the paperwork never existed before it is unlikley to exist now.

 

Then - and this is the important bit - complain to both your local trading standards and the OFT.

 

If they are pretending to be someone else - i.e. mislead you to the validity of a claim - in order to make a financial gain - i.e. make you pay money to them which they may not be entitled to - then they are committing an act of Fraud.

 

At the least thy are deliberatley misleading you by pretending to be RBS and that is aginst he OFT debt collection guidlines.

 

Here is the link to the CCA request - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter.

 

I didnt contact RBS no. Isent a CCA request to Connought and they could not produce one. 1st Credit have admitted in the letter that there isnt one.

 

I've just checked my credit file, there is nothing on there, I have no defaults or CCJs and my credit score is 999!!

 

What should I do now?

[dadofholly]

You can either issue a new CCA request to 1st credit - but as you have already made a CCA request on this alleged account you can send them the following letter.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?426-A-letter-when-the-account-has-been-passed-to-another-debt-collection-agency

 

I would also contact RBS and complain to them about sending you the "letter" you had from 1st credit and enclose a copy of the above template also. Be intersting to see how they reply. If they deny knowing anything about it then 1st credit will have committed a criminal offence.

 

Report the matter to Trading Standards and the OFT in any case as 1st Credit have tried to mislead you - and thats against OFT guidlines.

 

So

1. Send letter from Template to 1st Credit

2. Send letter from Template to RBS (addressed to person named on it, see what their response is)

3. Complain about 1st credit misleading you to local trading standards, (via consumer diret website) and also complain to the OFT via the OFT website.

 

It is important to make the complaints as well as get these fools off your back.

[Yam950]

You can either issue a new CCA request to 1st credit - but as you have already made a CCA request on this alleged account you can send them the following letter.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?426-A-letter-when-the-account-has-been-passed-to-another-debt-collection-agency

 

I would also contact RBS and complain to them about sending you the "letter" you had from 1st credit and enclose a copy of the above template also. Be intersting to see how they reply. I fhtye den knowing anything about it then 1st credit will have committed a criminal offence.

 

Report the matter to Trading Standards and the OFT in any case as 1st Credit have tried to mislead you - and thats against OFT guidlines.

 

So

1. Send letter from Template to 1st Credit

2. Send letter from Template to RBS (addressed to person named on it, see what their response is)

3. Complain about 1st credit misleading you to local trading standards, (via consumer diret website) and also complain to the OFT via the OFT website.

 

It is important to make the complaints as well as get these fools off your back.

 

 

Thats brilliant. Thank you all very much

[dx100uk]

i'd be threatening rbs with you seeking compensationtoo

its on their letterhead after all.

 

so no debt

what a suprise!

 

yet another person spoofed into paying a debt by a DCA when there never was a debt to pay.

 

dx

[Yam950]

i'd be threatening rbs with you seeking compensationtoo

its on their letterhead after all.

 

so no debt

what a suprise!

 

yet another person spoofed into paying a debt by a DCA when there never was a debt to pay.

 

dx

 

Good idea! When i spoke to 1st Credit on the phone and queried why it was on RBS paper the bloke said it was because Nat West are part of RBS! Errr.....ok, but its nothing to do with an RBS account! I have bank accounts with RBS hencew why i rang in the first place, i thought there was a problem somewhere. Grrrrr

[gezwee]

Natwest may have assigned an alleged debt to RBS but they are 2 separate legal entities...... even the courts get this wrong from time to time - see if RBS respond with enough info for 1st Crud to hang themselves with

 

Gez

 

 

NATIONAL WESTMINSTER BANK PLC

 

135 BISHOPSGATE

LONDON

EC2M 3UR

 

 

I.C.O Registration Number: Z4936258

 

Company registration No. 00929027

 

FSA Reference Number: FRN 121878

 

 

 

 

THE ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND PLC

 

36 ST ANDREW SQUARE

EDINBURGH

MIDLOTHIAN

EH2 2YB

 

 

I.C.O RegistrationNumber: Z5619639

 

Company registration No. SC090312

 

FSA Reference Number: FRN 121882

[Yam950]

Ok, i've dug out the letters and just want to clarify some things.

The first letter is dated 19/09/2011. This has the RBS logo on it and an address which says:

Royal Bank of Scotland, Credit Card Operations, PO Box 6050,

Southend on Sea, SS99 1Wl.

The phone number is 01702 446 904. This phone number is dead.

 

The letter then says "we hereby give notice of the assignment of the debt due to us by you in respect of your

Royal Bank of Scotland credit card account (I never had any form of RBS credit card - ever).

 

On XX/07/2004 you account was assigned to 1st Credit (Finance) Limited who are now legal owners of this debt. (Its statute barred now anyway)

It then goes on to say i must address all comms to them, gives their address and a phone number (which is the one i called)

 

It is then signed:

Yours faithfully,

followed by an illegible signature

and underneath says Collections Manager, Royal Bank of Scotland.

 

The second letter is dated 23/09/2011 and says:

RE: Your agreement with NATWEST, relating to account number 1234567890 and the balance outstanding.

 

It says the letter is sent by way of introduction to 1st Credit Limited and my account (one i dont have!),

goverened by the above credit card agreement went into default an was susequently charged-off by RBS.

 

It then says the balance is owned by 1st Crud following an assignemtn from RBS on XX/07/2004

 

It then goes on about how i should pay, if im paying RBS i should stop and pay 1st Crud instead etc etc etc.

 

The third letter is the one i described in my first post and is a complete lie about me benefitting from the funds!

 

My dates are a bit out in my first post - sorry about that i couldnt lay my hands on the letters earlier and have spent most of the day looking for them!

 

So - what is going on? I have RBS bank accounts, but i have never owed them any money at all, and i do not have an RBS credit card.

 

Are 1st Crud trying it on and using tactics that are illegal or are they in the right?

I just dont undersand where RBS fits into all this because the way it reads is as if they passed the debt to RBS

and the first letter is headed with the RBS logo but the telephone and fax numbers are both dead.

 

Thanks folks and sorry I wasnt clearer in my first post.

[gezwee]

So, they have alleged the following:

 

1. You had an agreement with RBS

2. The agreement was for provision of an RBS credit card

3. RBS assigned the account to 1st crud during July 2004

 

This would make sense..... if you ever held an account with RBS and if the notice had been sent by RBS

 

or

 

1. You had an agreement with Natwest

2. The agreement was for provision of an RBS credit card

4. RBS charged off the account during July 2004 and assigned to 1st crud

 

I think I'd be asking RBS a couple of questions

 

Gez

[dadofholly]

Could it be another 'made up' notice of assignment?

[Yam950]

Gez - i have had bank accounts with RBS for the past 15 years with no problems whatsoever. Ive never had a credit card with them and i am sure if there WAS a problems and i did owe them money they would have been on to me themselves a long time ago?

[gezwee]

Don't doubt it Yam, you would not believe some of the crap I've seen from this lot ........... and RBS

 

I'd spend a tenner and SAR RBS to see what shows up

 

Gez