feefofum Vs Barclays

[tigger26]

ESSJAYSEA.....

 

You say Barclays may file an acknowledgement of claim but it has to be within 14 days of service...

 

..does this mean 14 days FROM the date tomorrow(22nd sept) with which the original papers say they have to file a defence? OR 14 days from the time the notice was served on them? (i.e. end of August). (Guess I'm looking for a definition of 'date of service').

 

Cheers

 

14 days from deemed served date to reply - probably they'll acknowledge then they've another 14 days to file their defence, as stated on you Notice of Issue from the court?

[feefofum]

Just called the court this morning (Tue 26th Septmeber) as not heard back. Lady has said Barclays have appointed a solcitor to act (Reckon this'll be the same Jeremiah guy I keep hearing about)? They have entered a defence and the AQ is on its way to us......

 

SO... Can anyone point me in the right direction of other threads which mention what the AQ is, what it's meant to achieve, and how we fill it out please? (And of course 'll search myself and look in templates).

 

And then what happens???.....

 

Many thanks all.

[tigger26]

Hi

This is the link for the summary on how to complete the Allocation Questionaire

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

 

So you just complete the one that's relevant to you

[feefofum]

Cheers Sara.

 

Still no AQ in the post this morning, (will give it a couple more days)..

 

BUT... AM WORRIED I MESSED UP THE PROCEDURE... Have been reading a thread by mervalous and he keeps mentioning the DPA and Manual Intervention etc in respect of getting all the documents ready for court...

 

1. When I began this claim, I walked into my local branch, asked for copies of my statements, and they printed them out for me there and then (no charge, the ladies at my local branch are actually very nice and friendly!!).

 

2. I worked out how much they'd charged me, and interest and sent off the Preliminary Approarch for Repayment.

 

In other words, because I got my statements straight away I never sent off the DPA S.A.R letter (didn't understand the need for it).

 

Now I'm seeing that you need proof from the bank that you've asked them to supply details of manual intervention... WHAT SHOULD I DO NOW???

 

I'm waiting for the A.Q to come through, is it too late to fire off a letter asking for details of manual intervention on my account?? (Anyone help with the wording please)? - I know with other ppl they've been unable to provide evidence of manual intervention, do I need a letter from them addressed to me personally saying this also?

 

ARGHHHH, as if my fingernails aren't bitten enough as it is!!

 

Cheers though (in anticipation)

[feefofum]

Also MODS, how can I change the title of my thread pls?...(seeing as 22nd Sept has come and gone).

Thanks

[squishy]

feefofum, I realised way too late that I hadn't got evidence of asking them for manual intervention either. I can't answer your question (will await with interest to see if someone can) but just so you know, you're not alone!

[Welshman]

feefofum - the names of the moderators here are in green, as opposed to our blue.

 

Have a look around other threads until you find one, and send them a PM with a link to this thread.

[Bookworm]

5 threads merged, in future, please stay on one tread per claim, it wll make life a lot easier for all, including yourself. Thanks.

 

Don't sweat the manual intervention angle. Barclays have never even tried to use that as an excuse, and they'd pretty stupid to, as we have plenty of evidence that the systems are automated.

 

But the fact that you're panicking so much about this, as well as your other queries, makes me wonder if you've absorbed the FAQs and step-by-step... While you're waiting for your AQ, may I suggest you read them again and again until you are reasonably confident you know what you're doing? It will be time well spent, believe me.

[essjaysea]

I think I read recently that one of the Mods reckoned it was about 25 successful claims against Barclays.

[feefofum]

Thanks Bookworm, (and suitably told off for various threads). .... Hope not to come across as 'panicking' it's more that I'm a pedantic pessimist with a fear of authority! (hence the double and triple checking) .. ... If I'm the unlucky one who has to face them on court, you can bet I'll know every word of every defence off by heart!!

 

In return I DO try to answer other users queries as often they've made the same mistakes as I have.

 

Have received Barclays defence today, will try and type it out later, couple of things in there that are interesting, for sure they're keeping an eye on this site!

 

Cheers all.

[squishy]

that's interesting feefofum, will be curious to read it!!

[isidore]

Have received Barclays defence today, will try and type it out later, couple of things in there that are interesting, for sure they're keeping an eye on this site!

What makes you say that??

[Bookworm]

Ok, then, my apologies ;-)

 

Your post looked very much like the hundreds I've seen before from people who didn't know what they were doing, in my defence!

 

Have you checked my thread to see if your defence is similar or different from the standard one usually sent by Barclays? (will save you some typing it if it, lol)

[feefofum]

No Problems Bookworm. I see others making the mistakes I've made so far too, and understand the panic they feel, but also understand your frustrations. Rest aside YOU'RE ALL doing a fantastic job on here with incredible patience.

 

btw, Where is your thread? I couldn't find it.

 

SO then...

 

1. I have been sent a form saying 'Court Mediation Services'.... Something to do with the mediation helpline and I have to fill this in with either 'Yes I want to try Mediation' or 'No I do not want mediation' followed by blurb saying the judge may find my refusal unreasonable. ....Anynoe else had this??? how did they answer??

 

Looking for bookwroms thread to compare defences before I type mine out,... and the guy who's signed the defence is Adrian Ruffhead. Anyone heard of him?

 

Cheers

[feefofum]

And one more question if I may, I see from the mercentaile thread that all cases against Barclays that have been transferred to the Merc court are now being sent on to Judge Mackie, and there will be something happening on Monday?? (I see originally this was a case conference, but now the ppl involved are not required to attend, so is anything going to happen on Monday, i.e. is Judge Mackie going to make a decision on Monday)?

[tigger26]

And one more question if I may, I see from the mercentaile thread that all cases against Barclays that have been transferred to the Merc court are now being sent on to Judge Mackie, and there will be something happening on Monday?? (I see originally this was a case conference, but now the ppl involved are not required to attend, so is anything going to happen on Monday, i.e. is Judge Mackie going to make a decision on Monday)?

 

I just spoke to Court, the Judge is still looking at the case files as we speak, obviously the Case Management Conference won't go ahead Monday but he is looking at all claims against all banks that have been transferred to the Mercantile. So we wait with baited breathe to see what happens now:D

[feefofum]

Adrian Ruffhead.... anyone heard of him???

 

And court mediation service.... what do I say to that one please?

 

Ta in advance

[squishy]

and what made you say they're keeping an eye on this site, feefofum?!?! I know curiosity killed the cat but am very very curious!!

[feefofum]

1. The Particulars of Claim do not provide details or particulars of the account in question and/ or the precise charges alleged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof. However, to the extent it is alleged the Claimant incurred bank charges on his/her account for unauthorised borrowings (whether unpaid fees for returned cheques, “Paid Referral Fees” or any other such fees), the Defendant puts to the Claimant strict proof of each charge and date thereof.

Hmm we sent the copy of charges from the excel spreadsheet with the second letter, and also attached them to N1, are they asking for more?? The actual charges we highlighted from the statements? I read somewhere that this wasn’t necessary as it was information THEY already had! Is this right?

2. The Defendants standard terms and conditions give the Claimant a fair and transparent view of those terms and the charges applicable for unauthorised borings (including where the account is overdrawn without and overdraft limit or where the Claimant exceeds his/her authorised overdraft limit).

3. If and to the extent it is the Claimant’s case that the failure to make necessary payments and/or failure to remain within authorised overdraft limits failure to arrange an authorised overdraft constituted a breach of the terms applying to the account and that the contractual entitlement to debit charges from the Claimant’s account constitutes a liquidated damages clause, the same is denied. Eh??? What on earth does this mean? Especially the bit underlined, have they forgotten to use full stops, or is a perfectly sane legal piece of jargon?? The charges constitute payments the Claimant agreed to make by reason of the terms and conditions of his/her account and were consideration for the Defendant advancing credit to the Claimant, which the Defendant was under no obligation to advance. The Defendant was entitled to impose such charges and interest when the Claimant incurred the overdraft.

4. Accordingly it is denied that the legal principles relating to liquidated damages clauses and penalty charges are relevant or applicable to the facts set out above. Further or alternatively it is denied that any such charges constitute unlawful penalty charges or are in breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (particularly but without limitation to, paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2), or are in breach of s.4 of the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 (or any other provision). Or are unreasonable within the meaning of s.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (or indeed any other provision).Squishy, this is what I meant when I said they were closely watching this site, they have pre-empted everything I am about to get together once I send in the AQ. I used the template from here to fill in N1, which doesn’t mention The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Will this be a problem do you think??

5. Therefore it is denied that the charges were unlawfully debited from the account.

6. If and to the extent the Claimant incurred charges on his/her account, this was caused by the Claimant having gone into overdraft without having agreed with the Defendant and authorised overdraft facility to increase the overdraft facility and/or his/her failure to make payments to bring the balance of the account back in credit.

7. It is averred that the said charges and interest are and remain lawful and enforceable and that the Defendant was entitled to debit the same. Accordingly the Claimant is not entitled to a declaration by the Court as to the said enforceability of the said charges. Eh?? Is this the full disclosure I keep hearing about?? Who says the Claimant (me) is not entitled to a declaration by the Court?? Surely that’s the Courts responsibility to decide?? Also, I haven’t even asked for full disclosure..(yet).

8. The Defendant Denise that it is liable to the Claimant for the sums claimed and interest as pleaded by the Claimant or at all. In the alternative, which is denied, What alternative’s this then??? If the said charges amount to sums payable on breach of contract, it is averred that the charges asserted to the Claimant to have been applied to the account prior to 4th September 2000 would not be recoverable for reasons of exhaustion of time in bringing contractual claims from the date of accrual, pursuant to the Limitation Act 1980. I guess this is to do with eth 6 year limit eh? But it’s not relevant to us as we’re only claiming back for 4 years, so why include it??

9. In the alternative, and without prejudice to paragraph 6 above, if (which is denied) the said charges and interest or any part thereof are unlawful or unenforceable as alleged by the Claimant or at all, the Defendant has nonetheless suffered loss and damage as a consequence of the Claimant’s breach of contract in allowing the account to go into unauthorised overdraft. Accordingly, in the event that the Defendant is unable to rely on it’s express entitlement to enforce the charges as set out in paragraphs 2 to 3 above, it will seek to recover to the extent necessary such loss and damage as it actually suffered, which will not necessarily be limited to the value of the said charges, and the Defendant seeks to set off such sums against any liability owed hereunder to the Claimant. What’s this paragraph mean? It sounds threatening. Are they saying that even if the banks decide in our favour they can still claim money they say we owe them (my account is in credit) and take it off the charges they owe us?? Is it also saying that they’ll have to disclose how the charges are applied???

Signed by Adrian Ruffhead.

Has anyone else had the same defence by Barclays? And can anyone explain my questions in red please? Thanks in anticipation.

[feefofum]

Not back till Tuesday now, so please be patient with me answering anything.

Have a good weekend!

[Bookworm]

ok, right:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/5035-bookworm-barclays-court-date.html

 

Heyyyy, you got a slightly different effort!

 

Ooooh, they're trying to scare you... Shame you don't understand what it says then, lol. Otherwise, you'd be REAAAALLY scared... not...

 

Ok, the watching site part. Although there is no doubt that they do, this is not why, that part is simply part of the standard MCOL particulars of claim, and is part of their standard defence.

 

Adrian Ruffhead, never heard of him... I wonder if Adrian St John got so scared of me (he was MY opponent solicitor, ) that he changed his name?

 

Mediation. I think it can be reasonably argued that your request for repayment has been going for months now, and that if they really wanted to mediate, they could have done so a long time ago, so thanks but no thanks...

 

The defence:

1 - If you've already sent them a copy of the schedule of charges, and submitted it to the court, there is no need to re-send them, imo. You will in any case have yet another copy in the court bundle you will be submitting in a few weeks time.

 

3 - Unreal, isn't it? Trained Chimps could do better than this...

 

4 - Already answered above, don't worry about SOGA 1982.

 

7 - Are you sure you didn't tick the box asking for a declaration by the Court? It sounds as if a) either youhave, b) Mr Ruffhead is getting ahead of himself again. Double check your copy of N1.

It has nothign to do with disclosure. A declaration by the court would create a precedent about penalty charges, even in the Small Claims Court.

Disclosure is what you'll be respectfullly asking the judge to order (at AQ stage), and mkeans that each party would have to reveal the basis for their case, eg, for the bank to disclose how they reach the miraculous sum of £30 or £35 they charge us... Something the bank refused to disclose even to a Commons Select Committee, so you can bet your asp they're not going to tell you.

 

8 - The alternative follows, dummy! lol. a) they don't owe you anything (cos it's not a breach of contract), but if it WAS decided by the judge that they were, then b) some of them would be Statute barred. Yes, it's the Statute of Limitations 1980 rearing its head again... Although why would Mr Ruffhead be so keen to shout "statute barred, statute barred, yer 'onour!" for charges that are only 4 years old, is quite beyond me...

 

9 - Yes, you got it in a nutshell. Considering that a penalty is unenforceable in its entirety, they would have a hard job gettign that one. It sound to me like one of the Yorkshire Bank's ones, where they tried the same trick... I'll have a rummage around...

But you're right, it is amusing that they seem to be saying that if they lose, then they'll claw back the part that is REALLY their costs, but not jsut stop at that. Hey???

 

Mr Ruffhead, 6 for imaginative effort, 4 for style, 0.5 for contents.

[feefofum]

Bookworm, you're a star!! thanks so much for replying so promptly.

 

Have double checked the N1, and haven't a clue re:declaration of court. We filed the paper copy of N1, and I can't see where, if anywhere, there's a box indicating this, and we cettainly haven't mentioned it in the defence.....

 

Now then, back on Tue with a complete headmush regarding this mediation thingy we've been sent. That Does look threatening, will be picking brains on that one (Karnevil already answered a bit) .

 

Happy weekend

 

xf

[Peterbard]

I got a silmmilar reply from th Yorkshire bank snt thema noyther copy lf the particulars of the claim and this letter

 

Sort code: ** ** **

Account No ************

Thank you for your letter dated 28th September 2006.

Although the details have already been hand delivered to the branch mentioned above and are also apparent on the notice of claim I enclose another copy for your perusal.

I also enclose another copy of the N1 with the information highlighted.

Be assured that these bullying tactics will have no effect on my resolve in reclaiming the monies that have been unlawfully removed from my account and am fully able and willing to pursue this matter until either agreement can be made between us or ultimately through the County Court.

Yours faithfully

[heidiK]

Bookworm, you clever thing! Just to let you know, I have Adrian Ruffhead as the 'legal executive' - he signed the acknowledgement of Service.

[jamiesmum]

me too- Adrian Ruffhead has signed my acknowledgment of service too- everyone else must be on sick leave, perhaps too exhausted to continue!!