So worried. Does he have a case for unfair dismissal?

[Katherine1971]

Hi

 

Really hoping someone can advise me.

 

After a long and stressful two week suspension, my husband was told that he was being dismissed today for alleged Gross Misconduct. This has left us in dire straits as I'm not working and he was the breadwinner, so we now have no income, two small children and a mortgage to pay . . . I have no idea how we'll cope.

 

He has worked for the company for two years as a CSR in a callcentre. His record is spotless and he has had no prior warnings or disciplinaries. All that happened was that a couple of weeks ago, late one night after a run of unpleasant, rude customers, he got fed up and after the last customer slammed the phone down on him he uttered a swear word. It was not heard by the customer (who had hung up), or any of his colleagues (who were all on calls). He had not, unfortunately, disconnected the call and it WAS heard by the person who was monitoring/recording the calls.

 

He was suspended, summoned to a hearing on Wednesday and told that the outcome would be communicated to him today. Which was dismissal.

 

We're quite shocked, as we never expected this. The team leader who originally dealt with it said he imagined the outcome would be a final warning as my husband was a good agent who they "didn't want to lose". It seems very harsh to me - my husband apologised at the hearing and said that it wasn't something he would ever do again, it was a moments loss of judgement. To dismiss, despite the fact that there were other "reasonable" options (ie giving him a final warning) seems unduly harsh.

 

Also, a colleague of my husbands, was also disciplined for swearing *at a customer* (ie during a live call and the customer actually heard it!) and yet she was not dismissed.

 

So to me there seem to be two issues here - I don't feel they looked at other options before considering dismissal and there seems to be inconsistency in the way this matter was dealt with with my husband versus this other colleague.

 

Also another colleague told him last week that he'd seen the rota for the next two weeks and my husband was down as "suspended" for the whole period. Given that in the company handbook it says that suspension will last for "no more than 5 days" and the decision would be communicated "within 12 hours" it seems very odd that they blocked him out for two whole weeks so early on in the process.

 

I totally understand he was out of order to swear at work like that and deserves to be disciplined but I honestly feel the company are out of order to simply dismiss him like this, when there were no other issues on his record, and they had let another agent who did something *worse* (as in swearing at a customer) keep their job.

 

He has 7 days to appeal and then I guess it goes to tribunal, but I need some guidance about whether he has a good case and what he will need to do to ensure a fair hearing. Thanks.

[Louisa B]

Does his company have a formal disciplinery procedure?

[Scouse Paul]

There are a few questions i need to ask you.

 

1. Was he given the option for union representation.?

2. Was he informed that he has the right to union representation/the right to be accompanied by a friend/collegue?

3. How much notice was he given that he had to attend the hearing?

4. What went on at the hearing, was he given the chance to put his point accross?

 

Because the collegue of his was not punished for the same offence he can use that as part of his appeal as he can argue that the precedence has already been set by the way they dealt with (or lack thereof) with the college who swore at the customer but was not disciplined.

[Katherine1971]

Hi Paul

 

Yes he was given all the usual rights, sent a letter notifying him of the hearing about 2 days before. He's not a Trade Union member though. Also there seems to be a bit of a problem getting any of his colleagues to formally support him (including the one who swore at a customer but was not sacked) because they are fearful for their own jobs.

 

He works for a very major Satellite/TV/phone company owned by a certain Mr Murdoch, I'm sure you can all guess who . . . I am utterly not convinced by the way they are handling things.

 

We're just shellshocked by this decision given that someone else who committed a far worse offence was not dismissed and my hubby had no other disciplinaries on his record.

 

He suffers from IBS and has occasionally had to take take off or spend a bit more personal time than is considered desirable (with frequent trips to the toilet!) but this had never been an issue - or at least not formally. He's had snidey remarks from his TL about "spending all day on the loo" but there has never been a previous disciplinary for attendance issues. So I can't see that they could have used this as an additional reason to dismiss him. And am I right in thinking that they can't use extraneous reasons to dismiss someone, it has to be the offence for which they are being disciplined?

[Scouse Paul]

He can definately appeal on procedural grounds as they did not give him the requisite 5 working days notice on the meeting, also he should file a grievance under the grounds of being bullied over his on going medical condition, dont know if that comes under the DDA but it would be worthwhile finding out.

[honeybee13]

Hello there, welcome to the forum.

 

I don't have a lot to add except that I think you're right about the extraneous reasons not being used. My understanding [and someone will know better than me] is that attendance for your OH should be a separate issue.

 

We're all with you both and I hope we can help you to get a good resolution of this. How is your OH bearing up?

 

My best, HB

[Katherine1971]

Hello there, welcome to the forum.

 

I don't have a lot to add except that I think you're right about the extraneous reasons not being used. My understanding [and someone will know better than me] is that attendance for your OH should be a separate issue.

 

We're all with you both and I hope we can help you to get a good resolution of this. How is your OH bearing up?

 

My best, HB

 

Hi Honeybee

 

He's bearing up OK thanks, its me who's in bits, we have a four year old son and an 11 month old daughter and I'm currently staying home to look after them, so his dismissal means we have no income. I have no idea how we'll pay the mortgage, let alone buy their christmas and birthday presents this year (have just cancelled our daughter's first birthday party next month and am plucking up courage to tell our son that he won't be able to have his 5th birthday party in November - he was so looking forward to it as it would have been his first "proper" party". I have no idea what will happen about Christmas!). He's going to do all he can to get another job asap but of course it could take a while theres not much out there at the moment it seems . . .

 

I'm guessing he'll have to sign on for JSA on Monday although I am not sure if his being dismissed will stop him getting that and I know we won't get any help with our mortgage for several weeks. I know nothing about the benefits system as we've never claimed before and its a horrible feeling. He's desperately trying to find a job over the weekend, going round all the local Dominos and other fast food joints to see if anyone will take him on, anything will be better than claiming benefits!! He's a qualified HGV driver but needs to do his CPC before he can get HGV work. I have no idea how long it will take him to find another job and I'm utterly terrified! Literally haven't stopped crying since yesterday! I have no idea what to expect out of claiming benefits and the idea terrifies me! I hate the idea of having to claim.

 

Am so angry with the company, I honestly feel it was very unfair of them to dismiss him - a final written warning would have seemed a much more appropriate sanction, given that no harm was actually done and someone who did something much worse (as in swearing at a customer) is still working there (and had been promoted!). I am also angry with the TL who assured him (prior to the hearing) that he was sure it would just be a final written warning as he was a "good agent" and they didn't want to lose him.

[Scouse Paul]

Tell him to Appeal against the decision and as his evidence in the appeal hearing he should mention that the ACAS code of conduct was not adhered to as he only had 2 days notice for the initial hearing and also he should mention the lack of continuity in the way they dealt with his case as he got dismissed for something that a fellow employee was not punished for.

[Nystagmite]

I'm guessing he'll have to sign on for JSA on Monday although I am not sure if his being dismissed will stop him getting that

 

It depends on the situation. It's not a simple case of "you left; so won't get any benefits".

 

being bullied over his on going medical condition, dont know if that comes under the DDA but it would be worthwhile finding out.

 

It depends on how he's affected. Some manage with no problems at all and others (like me) have problems arising from IBS - therefore, covered under DDA. However, you can't complain if you didn't inform your boss - they can't make reasonable adjustments if they didn't know about the medical condition.

[honeybee13]

Hello again. I understand how you feel, but speaking as an expert panicker, even I think you should slow down a bit .

 

You sound like a logical person, so take it stage by stage and keep doing your research.

 

There's a Benefits forum here which Nystagmite and I are members of [hello Nystagmite]. If you'd like more information on benefits, you could start a new thread there. Don't copy and paste what you've said here or you'll get me in trouble, but if you could do a brief summary of the benefits situation, you should receive advice on that forum about what you can reasonably claim. There are people including Nystagmite there who know their stuff.

 

HB x

[RachelMD]

Tell him to Appeal against the decision and as his evidence in the appeal hearing he should mention that the ACAS code of conduct was not adhered to as he only had 2 days notice for the initial hearing and also he should mention the lack of continuity in the way they dealt with his case as he got dismissed for something that a fellow employee was not punished for.

Where in the ACAS CoP does it say that 5 days notice must be given, Paul?

[Scouse Paul]

Section 1 Subsection 11 of the ACAS code of practice states the following.

 

The meeting should be held without unreasonable delay whilst allowing the employee reasonable time to prepare their case.

Custom and Practice has always been to allow 5 working days to allow an employee to prepare their case, most disciplinary polices follow the 5 day "rule" and it is now largely the common practice

 

 

[madari]

Hi

 

`......reasonable time to prepare their case...`

 

72 Hours is regarded as reasonable by the tribunal system.

[LaurynM]

The ACAS Code of Practice states that employers are required to act consistently when handling disciplinary procedures, therefore disciplining a colleague for an offence which was clearly worse taking into consideration that it was directly at a customer which they heard, whilst dismissing your husband for swearing after a call which the customer did not hear. I would be arguing this point because its clearly unfair and a warning would more than have sufficed.

[GetOffMyCase]

I thought you had to have 3 warnings (verbal, written, final) within a 3 month period so that dismissal can be carried out.

If the verbal was more then 3 months before dismissal it should have started again.

[LaurynM]

I thought you had to have 3 warnings (verbal, written, final) within a 3 month period so that dismissal can be carried out.

If the verbal was more then 3 months before dismissal it should have started again.

 

It depends on the severity of the incident, gross misconduct can warrant dismissal before any warnings, it happened to me unfortunately and I had a spotless record and was about to be promoted into management.

[Smileymiley]

Hi Honeybee

 

He's bearing up OK thanks, its me who's in bits, we have a four year old son and an 11 month old daughter and I'm currently staying home to look after them, so his dismissal means we have no income. I have no idea how we'll pay the mortgage, let alone buy their christmas and birthday presents this year (have just cancelled our daughter's first birthday party next month and am plucking up courage to tell our son that he won't be able to have his 5th birthday party in November - he was so looking forward to it as it would have been his first "proper" party". I have no idea what will happen about Christmas!). He's going to do all he can to get another job asap but of course it could take a while theres not much out there at the moment it seems . . .

 

I'm guessing he'll have to sign on for JSA on Monday although I am not sure if his being dismissed will stop him getting that and I know we won't get any help with our mortgage for several weeks. I know nothing about the benefits system as we've never claimed before and its a horrible feeling. He's desperately trying to find a job over the weekend, going round all the local Dominos and other fast food joints to see if anyone will take him on, anything will be better than claiming benefits!! He's a qualified HGV driver but needs to do his CPC before he can get HGV work. I have no idea how long it will take him to find another job and I'm utterly terrified! Literally haven't stopped crying since yesterday! I have no idea what to expect out of claiming benefits and the idea terrifies me! I hate the idea of having to claim.

 

Am so angry with the company, I honestly feel it was very unfair of them to dismiss him - a final written warning would have seemed a much more appropriate sanction, given that no harm was actually done and someone who did something much worse (as in swearing at a customer) is still working there (and had been promoted!). I am also angry with the TL who assured him (prior to the hearing) that he was sure it would just be a final written warning as he was a "good agent" and they didn't want to lose him.

 

Where are you based as a mate of mine is always after Class 1 Drivers for ongoing work in the Midlands area if necessary private message me and I will pass on his details to you. If it gets you past Christmas and the little ones birthdays its a start. He would be class as self employed as well.

[GetOffMyCase]

It depends on the severity of the incident, gross misconduct can warrant dismissal before any warnings, it happened to me unfortunately and I had a spotless record and was about to be promoted into management.

 

Oh yes, thats right.

What a bummer for you.