1st Credit & Lloyds debt

[exRAF]

Hello All,

 

I am having some problems with 1st Credit and looking for some advice. I’ll be as succinct as possible.

 

Back in 2005 I was diagnosed with a chronic illness and was forced to leave employment. This happened in December 2006. At this time I was given a monthly pension and a small lump sum (circa 10k) I had several creditors and tried to negotiate with them. However I was not working, had no benefits as the DWP had made a mess of processing them and was surviving initially due to family, and then the lump sum / pension.

 

I used much of the lump sum to make payments to creditors which I now know was stupid. They didn’t stop charges etc and were pretty aggressive. I got in touch with the National Debtline who advised me to ask for all debt to be written off due to ill health. They all refused and at this point I was advised to pay nothing.

 

Since then I have considered the LILA bankruptcy route and discussed this with a debt advisor through my local welfare rights service. Their advice was that due to having almost no surplus income to either go down this route, or forget about it as if they’d wanted to take me to court they would have by then. If they did, they’d get nothing anyway as I have no assets, savings or surplus income, and if I was granted bankruptcy it would be no bad thing.

 

For the last 18/24 months I’ve heard nothing from any DCA. However three weeks ago I received a letter from 1st credit claiming they’d bought a debt from Lloyds. This is partially true. They did do this, but it was back in 2007 or so. The letter looked very amateur, almost like it had been made on a computer by cutting and pasting. They have also started to call my home and I’ve no idea how they got the number. I’ve also had two more letters, one asking for a payment, another stating they think my financial situation has changed and they want a payment. They claim to know this by checking my credit file.

 

The truth is my credit file does show a change, I took on a mobile phone. I admit it wasn’t the cleverest thing to do, but I’ll have to live with that. I would have more sympathy for them, and more of a moral obligation if they hadn’t sucked me dry of money when I just didn’t have it. They knew I hadn’t taken advice and they bullied me into making payments, adding silly charges and interest, until I couldn’t anymore, at which point they sold the debt and then the real animals got their teeth into it.

 

So what are my options here? Are they likely to pursue this? My thoughts were that as most of my debt will become statute barred beginning 02/12 I could play the long game and ignore it. However my fears are they’ll think there is a pot of gold to be had and apply for a CCJ?

 

Any advice would be grateful.

 

*Edit* I've also noticed today that two of the accounts have had the default dates moved. I know this as I have a screen grab of my credit report in Feb, and one from today.

Edited August 1, 2011 by exRAF

[exRAF]

moved by whom?

they cant do that

but that matters not anyhow.

 

the SB date will stay the same & that will be YOUR last financial transaction on each.

 

pers

they are just phishing and i'd totally ingore them.

 

not worth the bother

they are just chancing their arm they can spoof you into paying thus resetting the 6yrs rule to spoof you for more

 

let them play their cards first

 

and no, they wont go for a CCJ esp if their are charges/PPI involved

which i bet there is

 

dx

 

Thanks!

 

It appears on comparing the two credit reports (both equifax) that the default dates are correct and still the same. It's just they put the red box showing the default in the wrong month. I live in Scotland so the SB time line is 5 years unless I am totally wrong? The last payment on this account was in Jan '07 so in theory it will be SB by Feb '12.

 

My worry is obviously they'll take some sort of action before this. Is there any chance Lloyds have passed this to them lock stock, and they have the required proof etc?

 

I should add that had this creditor (and the others) helped me when this initially happened I would have made payments and tried to clear the debt. However it made me ill and all they wanted was as much money as they could get. Even if this meant taking charges and extra interest from me, rather than trying to clear the actual balance.

[exRAF]

How do you know if you indeed owe them this debt. You could always send a Credit Card Agreement request (recorded delivery £1 postal orders)

 

Compliance Officer

1st Credit Limited

The Omnibus Building

Lesbourne Road

Reigate

Surrey

RH2 7JP

If they dont respond to the CCA letter 12+2 days then send them the Account in Dispute letter afterwards. They cannot enforce the debt until they produce the CCA. Also may be worth noting that you would like to see the Notice of Assignment served in accordance with S136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

A debt can be disputed at any time. The full guidance can be found here;

 

They also cannot CCJ you at this point, it all needs to go to court in order for that to happen that would be way off yet and if it should ever get to that.

 

There are lots of threads about on worst credit. Hope you get it sorted but dont admit anything owing to them or make any token payments at this stage.

 

Maybe this link here to this thread is useful

 

 

I do know that I incurred this debt, and obviously owed it to Lloyds. Whether I actually owe 1st Credit is another matter. I don't want to send a CCA request because unless I am mistaken, if they can produce a valid CCA then they are entitled to pursue it. I'm not sure if this is wise given the debt will be barred in 5 months?

[exRAF]

After receiving a rather dubious 'debt purchase' letter from 1st Credit I'm hoping someone can answer the following.

 

Should the debt now show as settled with the original creditor on your CRF?

 

Does the original date of default remain there, or does a 2nd more recent default get added by the DCA who have allegedly purchased the debt?

[exRAF]

It depends whether it was sold or not.

 

 

 

yes the DCA just updates it.

 

Thank you very much.

 

I'm not convinced 1st credit have indeed purchased the debt as the letter supposedly from Lloyds looks very suspect. Are 1st credit known for going on fishing trips?

[exRAF]

Indeed they do it would seem!

 

Assuming they have purchased it, how long will it take to reflect this on my CRF? I am assuming there are letters I could send to ask for proof I owe the debt, and they own it. However it's so close to being SB (Feb '12) that I want to just try and ignore it without giving cause for them to seek a CCJ.

[exRAF]

It could be a month or two after they've purchased it before they update a credit file, but there are three main credit reference agencies and some DCAs don't update all of them.

 

When you get their letter asking for charitable donations you could send them this at first;

 

Thanks so much.

 

My only concern by sending such a letter is the legality of it? I do know the debt was incurred by myself with Lloyds so I can't exactly honestly say I know nothing about it. On what basis would I be sending this letter?

[exRAF]

What detail do you have on the alleged debt,

have you ever had accounts with Lloyds, current account or credit card (s)?

 

I cannot lie, I did have accounts with Lloyds. A bank account with O/D, a C/C and loan. I explained what happened on my other thread in the debt management forum.

 

I have no idea what the closing balances were as they kept adding charges etc. My CRF shows six debts to Lloyds. Three show as settled (although they were not) and three show as default. I think the bank account has been sold to Aktiv Kapital as they have registered a bank default against me in Jan 2008. That seems a bit unfair as that account is shown as settled in July 2007 and also default by Lloyds.

 

I only ever had three accounts with Lloyds so I have no idea why my CRF shows the six, albeit with three settled. I think I would have grounds to argue with Aktiv Kapital that they have registered a default on an account that I already have a default on. However that's the least of my worries obviously.

[exRAF]

Bank Default Aktiv Kapital

 

Credit Card Aktiv Kapital:

 

Loan Lloyds:

 

Current account Lloyds

 

Credit Card Lloyds

 

Northern Rock

 

I have another three accounts showing as settled all from Lloyds. These appear to be the three same accounts I've listed above, just transfered if that makes sense. The accounts above are however showing as still owned by Lloyds. The bank default I've listed showing as Aktiv Kapital is a strange one. I only had one bank account and therefore I think is relates to the Lloyds account, however the balances are very different, Lloyds are still listed as the owner and have placed it in default.

 

All have gone through various DCA agencies and thus far no court action has been taken. 1st credit however have reared their head in relation to the Lloyds C/C.

Edited August 2, 2011 by exRAF

[exRAF]

Perhaps I wasn't clear, sorry. The accounts listed above are as they are now, and up to date as far as I know. That is to say the three Lloyds accounts I say are settled must be the Lloyds accounts listed above, but shown in default. Effectively they are shown twice on my credit file, once as settled and once as default. In summary the accounts above are the debts I owe, and to the people that own them as far as I know to the best of my knowledge.

 

The only thing I believe to be wrong is the default by Aktive Kapital listed as a bank default. I think Lloyds may have sold them the current account but not updated the CRF so I now have effectively two current accounts showing on my CRF i.e these two debts are one and the same, albeit it with lost of charges added hence the difference in amounts.

 

Bank Default Aktiv Kapital: Default 01/08 owing £5000

 

Current account Lloyds: Default 08/07 owing £3200

 

What I think is happening is 1st credit are either fishing by looking at my CRF (like McKenzie Hall did) or they are acting on behalf of Lloyds.

Edited August 2, 2011 by exRAF

[exRAF]

We own Northern Rock, so that goes on the back burner.

 

Evening guests.

 

The CC's is it two? Who is the original creditor for the one Aktiv Cr@pital are chasing?

Are there any charges on them that can be reclaimed, roughly how old are they when did you take them out, and when did you default on them?

 

It is as confusing as you say??

 

IMO I would be inclined to get in touch with the CRA's and see if they can shed any light on these?

 

Actually scrub that, (I'm hungry!) HAve you had any letters about these debts at all? If so off who? And which accounts where they for?

 

There are two credit cards, Lloyds and the one Aktiv Kapital are chasing is originally from GE Capital branded as a Paypal C/C. There was no PP taken with any of the debts so as far as I'm aware no charges can be claimed back that way. I took most of these debts on in 2005.

 

I have had lots of letters, most of which are now filled in the bin They came from all the usual suspects, LCS, Buchanan Clark & Wells, 1st Credit etc. They all wrote with the standard letters, advising I must make payments, then the threat of court, then a discount offered. In the last 18/24 months they'd gone quiet but on the 25th July 1st credit wrote claiming to have bought the Lloyds C/C debt. As I say the letter looked very dodgy. Almost like they'd cut and pasted Lloyds address onto the bottom of the notice of assignment.

 

My worry is that should I try for example to reclaim unfair charges I admit to the debts. Especially as the countdown to being statute barred has begun.

[exRAF]

The letters are without doubt sent and printed by the same, they have a somewhat artistic licence to be able to do so, so you have a letter from Lloyds saying they have passed it to 1st Crudit, they then, and normally in the same envelope, write one saying they have been given this to pursue on behalf of their client?

 

If on the DCA's toilet paper it mentions royds as their "Client" then they won't have bought the debt, just doing the dirty work.

 

Offers of a discount are a big giveaway, these are usually debts made up of charges and fees, OR they have no paperwork to legally enforce anything in court.

 

I'm a bit pushed for time, but you say you took them on in 05, was that when you actually defaulted and couldn't maintain payments? Or is that when you took out the credit?

 

If that was when you took out the credit, when was the last time you made a payment OR acknowledged that you owed these (in writing).

 

In the same envelope I received a letter from 1st credit introducing themselves stating they'd bought the debt from Lloyds. And another letter (in the same envelope) from Lloyds stating they'd sold the debt to 1st Credit. However they looked very dodgy.

 

I defaulted on the accounts between Jan 07 and Jul 07. The last acknowledgements and / or payments would have been Jan 07 on all the accounts so in theory they'll become barred starting from Jan 12.

[exRAF]

Well no calls from 1st Crud today. They've been calling 2/3 times a day it would seem prior to today. Either calling and leaving a message, or sending one of these text type messages. Think they might have got the message I won't speak to them after stating I don't know who they are, what they want and bidding them good afternoon yesterday

[exRAF]

Another letter today. Are you supposed to be psychic with these companies? They've sent out a letter with no heading and therefore the only way to check who it's from is by checking who has signed it. LCS solicitors. Not had one from them in a while They are the 'in house lawyers' of 1st Crud I believe? Pretty obvious it's a standard computer generated letter with exactly the same payment info on the reverse. They are informing me that unless payment is made within 9 days they may initiate legal action. I'm bemused at the duration of 9 days, and I guess the key word here is may

 

Not had a pink letter in 18 months, wonder when they'll send one of those again.........

[exRAF]

They have to have colour coded letter heads

because the can't read.

 

Lol! This one is on buff coloured paper. They claim they've been instructed by their 'client' which is strange as surely they are the client being the same company

[exRAF]

have you sent the prove it letter yet

 

I have not as yet. This is due to it becoming SB in Feb. I'm unsure what my position will be if I send the prove it letter and they do indeed 'prove it' ? Would I be better trying to play the long game for the next few months and let them play their hand?

[exRAF]

TBH if they have not done anything in the preceding 5+ years then they aren't likely to, it is all willy waving, sending them the prove it letter is not an admission you owe this by any means, you never know they may actually come back with a "we are closing our files" missive.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?428-General-debt-letter-if-you-know-nothing-of-the-debt

 

Thanks for the input

 

To be honest I think you're right on the lack of action front. The debt advisor I spoke with felt the same. I think what has riled them is that my credit file now shows a couple of new accounts including a mobile phone contract. OK owing money, not paying it whilst having a mobile phone contract is not exactly going to win you medals in the moral stakes. However it's not like I've concealed property or massive savings. I live off a military pension and ill health benefits.

 

Let's assume I sent the 'prove it letter' and they did come back with some proof that they are entitled to pursue the debt. I suppose my next step would be a CCA request? Where does all this leave me with regards to the debt being SB? I suppose thinking logically if they had cast iron legal proof they'd have done a lot more, a lot sooner.

[exRAF]

Your correct, if they had cast iron proof they would have done more a lot sooner.

 

I'd be inclined to switch to 3A 4B (if you know what I mean)

 

Wait out he 9 days and see what comes next, see if you get another fancy coloured bit of A4 to paper your toilet with!

 

Bit confused, could you explain please?

[exRAF]

It's Army jargon for radio silence, no light, no generators.

 

Lol, ah I get you now.

 

I'm hearing more often than not that 1st Crud are one of the more persistent of companies. Is this because they generally take things further (court) and get results, or just their basic M.O?

[exRAF]

Well they will have to get their skates on if they do wish to pursue this!

Besides you will have more than enough time to put in a solid defence if they were ever going to go down that route. You just have to keep asking yourself why no-one else, least of all the original creditor went near a court years ago?

 

One explanation could be a letter I sent to each creditor written by my doctor stating that I had been forced to retire from military service early through ill-health and that it was unlikely I'd return to work in the forceable future. Both if which are true. There's another aspect to that letter, but I'd rather not post that up in public.

 

JUST THE SOUND OF THE WIND:painkiller:

 

Lol, fueled by some 48hr rat packs

[exRAF]

They have started to escalate to CC claims very late

in recent months in my experience.

 

I guess one way to pursue this is to let them play their hand. If I do get threatened with real court action I could then send the 'prove it' letter, then CCA request I presume? This I suppose would buy me time to the SB date. I think worse case I'll have to pay them £1 a month.

[exRAF]

Thank you both I'll keep the thread up to date with developments. I may also have another angle to tackle it from should it reach the legal stage. I'll PM whomever would be interested to advise on that though.

[exRAF]

Well after receiving a few letters from 1st Crud including a '12 days until legal action' letter it's all gone quiet. Are they likely to be looking for a CCJ by default given I've not contacted them? I'm obviously holding out for the debt to become SB, but really don't want a CCJ...........

[exRAF]

Thanks to the Brig and 'Boo for the input