Need help to close Limited company after visit from Enforcement officer

[rdmanagement]

Hi,

 

I need some help to maybe close my very small limited company.

 

I stupidly signed up to a subscription service that has no means of escape from. I did attempt to cancel the agreement within the 1st month, but the company didn't care once they had my signature, I'd even paid them 20% up front (which is worth a little over a couple of months of subscription) and I'd offered to let them keep the money; it seemed generous and reasonable at the time. Anyway, it went to court, and I genuinely did not get any of the paperwork, and last week I had the Enforcement officer on the doorstep of my private domestic property. I have spoken with the court (Northampton Bulk centre), and they've told me to fill out a N244 to have the judgement set aside. The subscribtion amount was £1200 for the year, and the amount now owing is £1800.

 

Am I wasting my time and money in fighting this and should I just bury the company? If so, i.e. to 'bury the company', how do I do this? I haven't traded in over 3months, although a former client of mine did pay an outstanding invoice on the 20th May.

 

Any advice and/or help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks.

[cerberusalert]

Moved to the Legal Forum.

[ploddertom]

Did the Enforcement Officer who cam give you any paperwork?

 

PT

[rdmanagement]

He was from the 'Marston Group' and he advised me to write to his office and explain that they had visited a domestic property and that I had no business assets at the address; which I did immediately.

 

The paperwork he left states the claimants name, and then goes on to say, 'I have received a High Court Writ that is enforceable at this address. Please contact this office...........'.

 

When I did speak to their office, I advised them that I had written to them, although it was unlikely they had received it, and this annoying woman started saying that I need to pay the amount immediately and that they could get into my house, and take my car.....to which I said, 'No. I don't think you can love'.

 

My registered business office is actually a virtual office at a managed/serviced building, and they've been kind enough to let me have a letter on their letterhead stating that no court papers had been received in the last 3months at the address.

[Matt63]

From what you have said a N244 to set aside the judgement is the correct way forward. You need to fill this in on the grounds of a) you did not receive the paperwork and b) there is a genuine dispute as to the amount owed.

 

On the face of it, if the subscription was only £1200 for the year, and you paid 20% upfront, then it is difficult to comprehend how the amount claimed is £1800. Have you really received the benefit of 20 months subscription having only made the one payment?

 

I take it you have documentary evidence of your cancellation?

[Matt63]

The other question I would ask, is how did they get your home address?

[rdmanagement]

The total subscribtion amount for 12months was £1332 (£1110+20%VAT), commencing 28th Feb 2011.

 

I had to pay 20% up front, and so I paid £266.40 (incl VAT).

 

By the 26th March I said I wanted to cancel the subscribtion and they said they don't offer cancellation, and having read through the T&C's there is no cancellation clause. I did send them an email stating that I wanted to cancel.

 

The judgement debt is for £1140.25, judgement costs £167, execution costs £111.75, interest £11.46, officers fees £350.45, making the total levy £1780.91 as at 25.07.2011 .

 

They got my home address presumably off companies house.

 

One other thing, the courts have told me to fill out the N244 twice, so thats £80 plus another £80.

[Matt63]

OK, more questions I am afraid. You need to be able to convince the judge that there was a genuine dispute rather than it being a simple matter of you not paying the bill. Did they reply to your cancellation email, and if so how did you respond and/or did you attempt to make further payments? Did they send a letter before action? And why do you need to fill out the N244 twice. Finally, what sort of subscription is it? A magazine, a website?

[toddle2u]

As you haven't traded for three months it would seem that you no longer require the Company? I take it the company has no assets? If that is the case I would not bother wasting the time and effort fighting this but apply to have the company struck off at Companies House. You need to complete form DS01 and send to CH with a chque for £10. You also need to send a copy to all creditors with a covering letter stating the following -

The company has insufficient funds or assets to formally go in to liquidation and hence invites creditors or members to issue winding up proceedings should you wish to do so.

If it is not subject to any formal winding up proceedings; the intention is to apply for Strike Off under s.1003 of the Companies Act and a copy of the application is enclosed for your records.

The fact that you have received payment within the last three months does not constitute trading and you have therefore fulfilled the criteria to file a DS01

[rdmanagement]

Matt63 - The subscription is/was with Emap trading as Glenigan; they're afairly big company with a monopoly on construction leads. So you login to theirwebsite and search for construction leads, and you can filter by location,project type, value, status (planning, tender, construction, post contract,etc).

Between the 28.02.11 and 24.03.11 I had voiced my concerns to Glenigan thatI didn't believe there product was right for us. I kept getting told to 'seehow it goes and then we'll see what we can do'.

By 24.03.11 I simply said 'enough is enough' I want to cancel.

On the 25.03.11 I was told, ‘we don't offer cancellations and you're tied intill 27.02.12’. I questioned why I had been told on several occasions to, 'seehow it goes and then we'll see what we can do', I was fobbed off with somethingabout it helping them to understand their marketing usage factors; sounds likerubbish to me. After this, I left several messages for one particularindividual to call me back, and they never did.

After going on to their commercial website (not the construction leads one),I rang a few different numbers and spoke with someone who said they understoodthe situation and consider it cancelled; the kicker is that I could not for thelife of me remember the name of the person I spoke with. Equally, I had hopedthey would have noted something on their systems, and afterall, everytime youspeak with them, you get the whole 'this conversation is being recorded'rubbish. Anyway, I wrote to them, sometime between the 28.03.11 and 01.04.11and confirmed my conversation and that the subscription was cancelled, and asagreed, they would keep the 20% I had paid up front. Again, unfortunately I don’thave a copy of this letter as a few days later I cleared out my office, and inthe transition, some things were lost and/or never scanned in. But they do sortof acknowledge my letter in their next emails (see below).

On 06.04.11 I received an email from the individual I hadleft several messages for, and they just reiterated that the agreement couldnot be cancelled and that their invoice was now payable in full as I hadcancelled the Direct debit. I immediately responded and said, ‘Thanks for responding to my email dated 25thMarch, fortunately things have moved on since, and this matter has already beenresolved. A formal letter confirming my last conversation with Glenigan/Emaphas already been sent to you. As for your comments regarding marketing andusage strategy, whatever that means, I disagree entirely and perhaps you needto recheck again with your account management team or listen to the phoneconversations’.

Later in the afternoon of 06.04.11, I received anemail from that same individual stating, ‘Please can you confirm who you spoke to regardingthis as we have no record of a telephone conversation with your company since24 March 2011?’.

On 08.04.11, I received another email from theindividual,‘We have no record of you speaking to a member ofGlenigan’s staff since your conversion with Diane on 24 March 2011. During yourconversation with Diane, she reiterated that Glenigan operates 12 monthcontract periods that cannot be cancelled prior to the end date.’.

I have attached a copy of your signed orderform and our Terms & Conditions, both of which state that the contract yousigned is for a 12 month period. Therefore, invoice 225099 is due for paymentin full and failure to do so will result in your account being passed to a 3rdParty Recovery agent. However, should you wish to arrange payment of thisinvoice please contact us on 0800 015 3393 (option 3, 5).’.

From this point I stopped communicating with themcompletely as it was lie after lie, even if I had the money, there was no way Iwas going use their service. This person Diane had never said to me thatGlenigan operates a 12month contract period. I know that the contract period is12months, but Diane had never said that to me, but that wasn’t the point, thepoint was that it was another lie, to go along side their rubbish about ‘marketingand usage strategy’, not to mention that in my opinion they hounded me to signthe contract and then when I raised concerns, they fobbed me off, didn’t returnmy calls, and then lied about this Diane allegedly saying to me that thecontract period was 12months. From this point there was no way back for therelationship; ‘untenable’ I believe is the word.

Furthermore, the website requires the individual tohave a certain amount of training over the internet where they remote access/ghostyour computer and talk you through it, and this was only half completed, so it’snot as if I could have used their construction leads website properly anyway.

After this, during May maybe, I received a fewcalls from their lawyers. These I didn’t respond to, although I did send aletter on receipt of their entire invoice stating that the business was nottrading and couldn’t afford an administrator and had no assets, and they were welcometo issue a winding up........etc’. The next I heard was this Enforcementofficer on my doorstep; and now I’m on this forum seeking help. So thats mystory!

By the way, thank you for your responses so far.

I was going to close the business anyway, but I’m now in a quandary, caught between a rockand a hard place, as I don’t want this Glenigan/Emap tarnishing my name inanyway. I know its the business name and not me personally, but I am thedirector. Am I taking it too personally, and should I just walk away from thebattle and close the company. The otherthing is, I wouldn’t want to lose, and then owe more, but then again, have Igot a good case?

With regards to filling out the N244 twice, this iswhat I was told by the Courts helpdesk via email; ‘If you think that a Judgment has been entered againstthe company incorrectly and you would like to remove it you can apply to setthe Judgment aside using the N244 'Application Notice'. As the Claimant hasissued a Writ of Fi Fa to enforce the Judgment you will also need to apply to'stay the writ' on an additional N244’.

Toddle2u – thanks for theinfo, but isn’t there something about being unable to close a company if you’rein a legal dispute?

Thanks again and apologies for the long response (1100+ words I believe)!

[toddle2u]

Toddle2u – thanks for theinfo, but isn’t there something about being unable to close a company if you’rein a legal dispute?

It says on the DS01 form that you have to inform all creditors of your intention to apply for a strike off and send them a copy of the application. Emap are a creditor so by informing them you have fulfilled your legal obligation.

 

Is it wortth the battle when you were going to close the company anyway? IMHO the answer is no.

[Ganymede]

Hi,

 

I need some help to maybe close my very small limited company.

 

I stupidly signed up to a subscription service that has no means of escape from. I did attempt to cancel the agreement within the 1st month, but the company didn't care once they had my signature, I'd even paid them 20% up front (which is worth a little over a couple of months of subscription) and I'd offered to let them keep the money; it seemed generous and reasonable at the time. Anyway, it went to court, and I genuinely did not get any of the paperwork, and last week I had the Enforcement officer on the doorstep of my private domestic property. I have spoken with the court (Northampton Bulk centre), and they've told me to fill out a N244 to have the judgement set aside. The subscribtion amount was £1200 for the year, and the amount now owing is £1800.

 

Am I wasting my time and money in fighting this and should I just bury the company? If so, i.e. to 'bury the company', how do I do this? I haven't traded in over 3months, although a former client of mine did pay an outstanding invoice on the 20th May.

 

Any advice and/or help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

May sound like a silly question but did you sing up for the subscription personally or in the company name? Who is the Defendant on the Court forms?

 

If the Court served on the registered office of the company then that is always good service.

[rdmanagement]

Its in the company name in both instances.

[Matt63]

Oooh this is reasonably complicated. In the end it depends what you want to do and whether you have the time and energy to pursue this.

 

The first place I would look at is the original court order. What address does it have for your company? If it is incorrectly addressed then that is your first course of attack. Secondly, did you physically sign the contract yourself and were the T&Cs part of that contract that you signed? If no, you have a genuine defence, if yes, then an argument that you didn't understand the T & Cs is not going to work unless you have an email or something confirming something different to the T & Cs (like an email from someone giving you a "cooling off" period). However an argument could well be constructed that they a) did not attatch the T & Cs with the contract, b) they did not give you adequate training to use the software and c) it did not live up the the expectations generated by their sales pitch. An argument could also be constructed that the amount of the CCJ is incorrect as you had not yet received/used your 12 months subscription.

 

If you decide to apply to set aside the judgement, you need to have reasonable evidence of a genuine dispute which was notified to the supplier before they issued proceedings. A judge is not going to set aside judgement if he considers that you have no defence apart from not having received court papers.

 

It all depends on what you want to do! In the end, it might just be easier to apply to Companies House to have the company dissolved.

[rdmanagement]

Hi Matt63,

 

Thanks for getting back to me.

 

I think you've made up my mind. I suppose I was looking for some confidence from someone as to whether I had a case or not, and as you say its 'reasonably complicated'. Dissolve the company it is then.

 

What do I need to do bearing in mind its my personal address they've got so far on the court paperwork as I don't want a CCJ or anything else attached to my personal address.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Matt63]

I think you need to get hold of a copy of the original court paperwork. That will tell you if you have a problem with your home address being on the court papers or not.

[rdmanagement]

Ok. I'll give the courts a call tomorrow and see what they can do.

[rdmanagement]

Hi,

 

I've received a letter advising of a visit to 'seize and remove' to enforce a Writ of Fi Fa (not sure what that means) on the 10th August 2011, next Wednesday; the total debt thus far is £1,786.55 (started off at £1180.00).

 

Without going into the detail, I never received the original court papers and a judgement was made without my knowledge. I've yet to see the court paperwork and have asked the Courts to send me copies again at a different address to be sure that I get them. In the meantime, it seems my limited company BUSINESS debt has been judged against my domestic private address albeit in my business name and now I'm being threatened in quite strong language with 'officers and removal contractors' and that I will be responsible for the costs.

 

Its a business I was closing down anyway, and this debt is for a subscription service which I was 'suckered' into; but I don't have the funds or time to fight it, and as I said, its a business I want to close down anyway.

 

How do I keep them off my private domestic premises? There are no business assets at my address, and I have already written to them telling them that. Is there something more legal that I can use, which will make it impossible for them to come to my home address?

[dx100uk]

if you never got any papers

get it set aside

 

dx

[ploddertom]

It's a common practice with a Ltd Co attending the Directors private residences in the hope they will find goods - company vehicle perhaps - that belong to the company. However as it is a private residence they have absolutely no powers at all to gain entry - unless you invite them in of course. They are allowed however to force entry to a detached building withing the perimeter if they believe there are goods inside to satisfy the debt - but as a Ltd Co what good would a lawnmower be for example. They are also allowed to force entry to any business premises that you may owe or lease providing they are not attached to your residence.

 

As dx has said you could always apply to have the Judgment Set Aside.

 

PT

[rdmanagement]

I'm filling out N244 as we speak (or type), but will it be executed in time?

 

If I post it special delivery tomorrow, it will get there on Saturday, and then how long before Nortampton County Court (Bulk Centre) turn it around?

[ploddertom]

What are you applying for on the N244?

 

PT

[rdmanagement]

Well, I've got to do two of them. One is to 'set the judgement aside', and another is to 'stay the writ'.

[ploddertom]

They can both go on the same form together.

 

N244 Form:

 

Name of Court - where CCJ was awarded

Claim No - CCJ number

Warrant No - leave blank

Claimants Name - name of Claimant as entered on CCJ

Defendants Name - name of Defendant as entered on CCJ

Date - when you filled this in

Q1 - put your name in here

Q2 - tick relevant box

Q3 - a brief description

- you are applying for Set Aside because you never knew you had a CCJ until a High Court Enforcement Officer arrived.

- you never received the original documentation about the claim and were denied the opportunity to defend/counterclaim/make offer of payment

- You are also applying for a Stay of Execution against the HCEO because

- pending determination of a Set Aside application

- you cannot afford the Fees charged

Q4 - tick No

Q5 - tick at a hearing

Q6 - leave blank

Q7 - leave blank unless relevant

Q8 - District Judge

Q9 - Claimant & Defendant

Q10 - needs expansion of Q3 - better done on sheet(s) of paper with each point bulletted. Remember to copy of Statement of Truth on to last sheet & sign + date. Tick statement of case on form and again sign + date

Q11 - fill your details in

 

Claimant is entitled to oppose your application but in most cases this can be disregarded.

 

Cost of application is £80 but if on a low wage or certain Benefits this may be waived see form EX160 for details.

 

Take the forms with you in person in the morning to your local County Court, explain the urgency of the application for the Stay and usually a spare judge can be found who will hear this application immediately. If granted then contact HCEO office and inform them of Stay, Court, name of Judge & date, do the same with a copy of the paperwork. Do not leave it to others.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

I appreciate the Set Aside has to go to the originating Court but some will allow - especially when Northampton is involved for all to be submitted locally. Please be aware that at this time the application for the Stay is more important than that for Set Aside.

 

PT