Ingeus

[Paulo83]

Your experience with the Mock Interview is not surprising.

 

The "Refer to Boost" is part of Ingeus Every Day Counts Model, a diagram appears on http://ingeusstaff.co.uk/diagram

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44796[/ATTACH]

 

Could hardly contain my excitement reading through that. Sounds like more of the same rubbish, only more often and more painful. It does seem like a patronising and demeaning exercise, especially when you consider the state of the current labour market. I can also imagine it meaning making people apply for a load of irrelevant and unsuitable jobs (with the threat of sanctions), just so they increase their chances of claiming their taxpayer-funded reward if you get lucky (or unlucky) enough to land one. Even one of their advisers admitted that the national average for applicants per vacancy was over 200.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Could hardly contain my excitement reading through that. Sounds like more of the same rubbish, only more often and more painful. It does seem like a patronising and demeaning exercise, especially when you consider the state of the current labour market. I can also imagine it meaning making people apply for a load of irrelevant and unsuitable jobs (with the threat of sanctions), just so they increase their chances of claiming their taxpayer-funded reward if you get lucky (or unlucky) enough to land one. Even one of their advisers admitted that the national average for applicants per vacancy was over 200.

There is something worse and insidious about the Welfare To Work Sector.... Clerks who are lucky enough to have secured employment as W2W Clerks (being unqualified for working in even a Call Centre) frequently eschew the belief (through written information, individual and group meetings) that they wish to "help" the unemployed "overcome their barriers towards securing sustainable employment".

[jasta11]

Well said, Rebecca. Thank goodness the health service don't just accept 'clerks' to do the medical work...I hope there's never an Ingeus Medical Centre, full of ex-car salesmen.

[johnny555]

Hi just a bit of advise i wrote on here the other day about my 104 weeks being up and still getting hassled by the idiots at injeus/dump..i am tootaly ****ed off today due to the fact i wasnt feeling well due to a mass migraine/sickness i had a family member phone them up to tell them i was going to miss an lousy appointment today due to being ill, then the pratt asks to speak to me,when im clearly not well...idiot...then when i finally go on the phone after feeling crap going on it, he starts going on about me having to ring the jobcentre up and telling them to fill out a form and that they will send off one also..whats all this about now ?

 

im only going to be off sick a few days and ive got to fo all this hassle ringing 0845 numbers and the like..what the hell ? all over missing a pathethic appointment.

 

Any advise guys has im feeling im being took the **** a bit..not only over this sick thing but also not being notified by the jobcentre about my 104 weeks being up and im still on injeus books..i think they arent communicating or somthing or another law has come in and im in a differnet location to the rest of the Uk that its now 112 weeks or somthing.

 

Help

[I survived 2 years!]

@ johnny555...

 

You really need to speak with your Job Cente, I'm guessing you attend the Preston Branch? They will be able to tell you when your 104 weeks are up, or when you are due to end...

 

You shouldn't be at Ingeus if your 104 weeks are up! When i finished my sentence i received a letter in the post stating i would be referred back to my Job Centre...In other words....GO AWAY....You've made us no money!!! lol

[Mr.P]

Hi just a bit of advise i wrote on here the other day about my 104 weeks being up and still getting hassled by the idiots at injeus/dump..i am tootaly ****ed off today due to the fact i wasnt feeling well due to a mass migraine/sickness i had a family member phone them up to tell them i was going to miss an lousy appointment today due to being ill, then the pratt asks to speak to me,when im clearly not well...idiot...then when i finally go on the phone after feeling crap going on it, he starts going on about me having to ring the jobcentre up and telling them to fill out a form and that they will send off one also..whats all this about now ?

 

You'll want to fill in a JSA-28 for the Job Centre records (see attached), this can be used as "just cause" should the provider try to raise a sanction for failing to attend their appointment.

[johnny555]

Thanks for reply..yes its mad how im still get hassled by them i havent even had a exit review just the little runt saying its now 2 years and you should have all the skills to do the job search on your own but i didnt have any kind of exit review in the way ive read you have, just more hassle with trying to put me into security jobs miles away that i cant get to having no car. The last few times ive been there on a stupid waste of time appointments he's just left me hanging with no appointment card just see yah and thats it, then out of the blue a ****ty letter of him telling me i have to go again and its mandotory, i just see it has a waste of my time.

[johnny555]

Thanks Mr P for the PDF file so i fill it in and send it to my local Jobcentre? even if im well before i sign on next Tuesaday ? I did try to ring them but i had no answer besides i hate ringing that BS 0845 number

[Mr.P]

If your WP appointment was "mandatory" (i.e. You had a letter, not a text, email, or phone call to say you must attend), then I'd recommend filling in the JSA28 and posting it to your local JCP. Keep a copy for your own records, and if the WP provider tries to hit you with a Failure To Attend sanction, you have some defence.

If you are well enough to attend your regular signing on appointment at the JCP, all well and good - You have covered your back.

[johnny555]

If your WP appointment was "mandatory" (i.e. You had a letter, not a text, email, or phone call to say you must attend), then I'd recommend filling in the JSA28 and posting it to your local JCP. Keep a copy for your own records, and if the WP provider tries to hit you with a Failure To Attend sanction, you have some defence.

If you are well enough to attend your regular signing on appointment at the JCP, all well and good - You have covered your back.

 

Thanks for reply, i phoned them up and theyyre sending me the form out il scan it and send it back, she seemed cool, unlike those idiots at Injeus, i so hate that place.

[Paulo83]

Hi just a bit of advise i wrote on here the other day about my 104 weeks being up and still getting hassled by the idiots at injeus/dump..i am tootaly ****ed off today due to the fact i wasnt feeling well due to a mass migraine/sickness i had a family member phone them up to tell them i was going to miss an lousy appointment today due to being ill, then the pratt asks to speak to me,when im clearly not well...idiot...then when i finally go on the phone after feeling crap going on it, he starts going on about me having to ring the jobcentre up and telling them to fill out a form and that they will send off one also..whats all this about now ?

 

im only going to be off sick a few days and ive got to fo all this hassle ringing 0845 numbers and the like..what the hell ? all over missing a pathethic appointment.

 

Any advise guys has im feeling im being took the **** a bit..not only over this sick thing but also not being notified by the jobcentre about my 104 weeks being up and im still on injeus books..i think they arent communicating or somthing or another law has come in and im in a differnet location to the rest of the Uk that its now 112 weeks or somthing.

 

Help

 

You should be able to contact your local JCP and ask them to inform you when your two years is up. It's worth doing so you can get this Ingeus runt off your back, hopefully sooner rather than later.

 

I was asked to keep a diary of my job search this week. It's like being back at school, only more patronising. I've only been on this damn programme for 4 or 5 weeks now, but I'm getting fed up of being mandated to attend pointless courses or my adviser trying to sub me for jobs I'm not interested in. I noticed something today though. For my appointment tomorrow, I haven't been mandated to attend. Ah, the temptation not to turn up...

[Mr.P]

I was asked to keep a diary of my job search this week. It's like being back at school, only more patronising.

 

Yup. Had that myself. Would use initials & abbreviations for company names - Got told "we need more detail", so I started logging time spent on the loo as well as every nauseating detail of my daily job search. Then it was "we want a typed log", phhhtttt.

[johnny555]

You should be able to contact your local JCP and ask them to inform you when your two years is up. It's worth doing so you can get this Ingeus runt off your back, hopefully sooner rather than later.

 

I was asked to keep a diary of my job search this week. It's like being back at school, only more patronising. I've only been on this damn programme for 4 or 5 weeks now, but I'm getting fed up of being mandated to attend pointless courses or my adviser trying to sub me for jobs I'm not interested in. I noticed something today though. For my appointment tomorrow, I haven't been mandated to attend. Ah, the temptation not to turn up...

 

ye im going to ask the job centre because im sure i shouldnt be going back, im so sick of him doing the same thing each time aswell throwing random jobs at me its quite anoyeing, its all they care about is hitting there sales targets and has im at the end they are trying it more.

 

As for the letter not having mandated on, i wouldnt fall for it, they are upto some sly games lately.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

You should be able to contact your local JCP and ask them to inform you when your two years is up. It's worth doing so you can get this Ingeus runt off your back, hopefully sooner rather than later.

 

I was asked to keep a diary of my job search this week. It's like being back at school, only more patronising. I've only been on this damn programme for 4 or 5 weeks now, but I'm getting fed up of being mandated to attend pointless courses or my adviser trying to sub me for jobs I'm not interested in. I noticed something today though. For my appointment tomorrow, I haven't been mandated to attend. Ah, the temptation not to turn up...

If the appointment is not mandated, and is optional, then it is entirely your choice and discretion as to whether you wish to indulge such an optimal request for your attendance.

 

Yup. Had that myself. Would use initials & abbreviations for company names - Got told "we need more detail", so I started logging time spent on the loo as well as every nauseating detail of my daily job search. Then it was "we want a typed log", phhhtttt.

It should be sufficient for you to provide a Job Diary which, on the one hand JCP Accepts when you sign on (and therefore validates your continuing compliance with the Job Seekers Agreement), and as a minimal requirement specifies {date, source of vacancy, company name, job title, method of application}, and should therefore be accepted by a Welfare To Work Clerk employed within Ingeus. However, it sounds as if the W2W Clerk that you have met, who insists on a "typed log", simply enjoys wielding power - unless an activity is backed up by a Mandatory Activity Notification, it remains your choice as to whether you wish to indulge such a demand, or whether you deliver something which you know JCP has accepted previously.

 

Plus, of course, there is no specific legislative enabler which could result in you providing any confidential information on any vacancy that you have applied for (such as names of individuals, telephone numbers) which would be at conflict with Data Protection Legislation.

Edited July 3, 2013 by RebeccaPidgeon
Additional Information Submitted

[Mr.P]

Plus, of course, there is no specific legislative enabler which could result in you providing any confidential information on any vacancy that you have applied for (such as names of individuals, telephone numbers) which would be at conflict with Data Protection Legislation.

 

A long time ago, I did have some JCP "adviser" telling me that if they asked (nay, demanded) copies of letters to/from a prospective employer, I would have to produce them - Asked at the time how this demand could be reconciled with the Data Protection Act and personal privacy..... Never got an answer.

 

As for the harpie demanding a typed log - She threw her toys out of the pram that day and had a hissy fit, that was the last I ever saw of her. I don't do child care, and I have no intention of going back to change her nappies and/or wipe her snotty little nose.

[Chester6]

I also got a pimp log but I recycled it

I am not into copying the same info repeatedly to please pimps

The jobcentre book was good enough for both

I only got a log near the end

The whole ethos behind this stupid scheme seems to be about treating everyone like kids

[jasta11]

I fill in my job log in fine detail and also in TINY writing. They barely glance at it - they seem to only be checking that you've actually filled the damn thing in, which is why I always tell people to try and fill the form as fully as they can. If the log has space for 5 vacancies then put 5, even if your JS Agreement says you only have to put 3. Appearance is everything; the JC sees a fully completed form and that's enough. Definitely a case of 'quantity over quality'.

 

If I'm feeling mischievious I'll ask the clerk to read it through fully and go onto the Reed/CV-Library website to confirm the vacancies exist...never had one clerk do this yet though, and as they only have 4 minutes allowed to see anyone they're not likely to either. It throws them totally when you ask them to check your jobsearch - they're usually expecting people to avoid any mention of it.

 

The jobsearch diary you show to the DWP is also perfectly valid with the WP too. If the JC have accepted your jobsearch as meeting requirements then don't let the WP tell you that you're not doing enough. There's no rule at all that says you have to submit written evidence in typed form either - they're talking b*llocks, give 'em pen and paper!

[Raven1]

I remember one visit to the job centre when the desk clerk asked me about something which I had covered fully on my job search record.

 

I pointed this out to him and he said 'I didn't look at it' so I just smiled sweetly and said 'It's lucky I haven't got my recording device running today isn't it?'

 

I've never seen anyone go from calm to all red and flustered - in the manner of Cameron - in such a short space of time and he seemed to view me somewhat wearily after that.

 

Happy days...

[Paulo83]

If the appointment is not mandated, and is optional, then it is entirely your choice and discretion as to whether you wish to indulge such an optimal request for your attendance.

 

It was that "refer to boost" appointment. It wasn't mandated but I turned up anyway to stop any hassle from them or the job centre. Never bothered filling in a job search record because I do that for JCP.

 

Anyway, now I am in "boost", I'm expected to send out at least 40 speculative letters per week and then chase them up with phone calls. No chance. I also get to experience the fun of doing a weekly job search with my advisor. This is to offer me "help" with filling in an application form online. I'm more than capable of doing that task myself!

[RebeccaPidgeon]

It was that "refer to boost" appointment. It wasn't mandated but I turned up anyway to stop any hassle from them or the job centre. Never bothered filling in a job search record because I do that for JCP.

 

Anyway, now I am in "boost", I'm expected to send out at least 40 speculative letters per week and then chase them up with phone calls. No chance. I also get to experience the fun of doing a weekly job search with my advisor. This is to offer me "help" with filling in an application form online. I'm more than capable of doing that task myself!

Although the appointments may be mandatory, each activity requires a Mandatory Activity Notification to be issued....if JCP is happy with your Job Search Activity, then the stipulation that you send out 40 spec applications per week can easily be accommodated by email (to either employers, or via agencies). However, following up represents a complication - the majority of employers notify candidates that any "canvassing" will lead to automatic failure.

[Paulo83]

Although the appointments may be mandatory, each activity requires a Mandatory Activity Notification to be issued....if JCP is happy with your Job Search Activity, then the stipulation that you send out 40 spec applications per week can easily be accommodated by email (to either employers, or via agencies). However, following up represents a complication - the majority of employers notify candidates that any "canvassing" will lead to automatic failure.

 

I find the 40 to be excessive anyway. Living in a post-industrial town, you can either work for Aldi, Lidl, Morrisons, Tesco, Asda, B & M, McDonald's, Burger King... (you get the idea!) It's not exactly a hotbed of good, well-paid employment. Well, the number of cold calls the house gets per day drives me crazy. I would imagine employers being in the same boat. I have no intention of pestering potential employers with "follow up" phone calls for that reason, and your reason.

[Mr.P]

I have no intention of pestering potential employers with "follow up" phone calls for that reason, and your reason.

 

My argument has always been that such activity could be construed as harassment and thus a criminal offence under at least two pieces of legislation - This is also the view I take with these so called "telesales" jobs.

[Paulo83]

My argument has always been that such activity could be construed as harassment and thus a criminal offence under at least two pieces of legislation - This is also the view I take with these so called "telesales" jobs.

 

Certainly. If any employers were interested after receiving a speculative letter, then I'm sure they would contact you for further information. Chasing up the result of sending such a letter may be seen as an act of desperation or even "harassment". Like I've pointed out, I hate being at home and receiving 3, 4 maybe even 5 "cold calls" a day. It's irritating and I'm certainly not going to behave like a hypocrite by pestering employers about speculative letters I've been made to send.

[Chester6]

They claim that chasing it up shows an interest, that you are keen etc

I tried chasing up an interview and the person who contacted me knew nothing about it, a job where the person never phoned back so I'm thinking she has terrible skills and how she'd ever get employed

[jasta11]

Does the JC and WP honestly expect any employer to remember every person who applied for a vacancy, considering the supposed average number of applications is around 200 per job?? Plus how long are they supposed to remember you for..a week, a month, a year?

 

If an employer wants me, they'll contact me. If they don't, though the odd one might genuinely keep my cv on record for a while, the vast majority will simply bin it and forget me in 10 seconds - that's exactly what I'd do if I was an employer. Absolutely no point in contacting them again; it's a buyer's market and they didn't choose me this time. End of.

 

If the JC want 'feedback' then maybe they should make it a condition of advertising with them that all employers must promise to contact all applicants and give them a detailed account of why their application failed. Can't see this happening.

 

Also, especially in Local Government jobs, asking for feedback is classed as 'canvassing' and will automatically disqualify you from the vacancy. I had an Ingeus adviser tell me to check on how my application with the local Housing Dept was going and I said 'If I did that I'd have to report you for deliberately sabotaging my job-hunting, would you like that?'