Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

[Keep Smiling]

Any help or pointers appreciated:

 

Some quick background on this, probably not important but does give some history on my interaction with this council.

 

In 2006 I was made bankrupt by the local council for unpaid council tax. This was made on the basis of liability orders granted in the local Magistrates Court. The property involved I did not own, do not live in and am not responsible for, yet at some point someone said I was and that was enough for the council to get these orders. Using them they sent all the relevant forms to that address (which obviously I didn't get) and served a bankruptcy petition on someone (who wasn't me) and the local court granted the order.

 

I found out, tried to get it annulled but every time I tried the Judge would refuse it and the costs went up.

 

The IP then applied for possession of MY house (they couldn't get it on the house the tax should have been paid on as it wasn't in my name, obviously, it's not mine) so after a huge wrangle, and a few days before I was due to be evicted I paid (from an original £2950 debt) over £35,000.

 

I have sworn affidavits from the person responsible for the Council Tax that they should have been paying it, and from the person who the Petition was served upon that someone came up, asked if he knew me and when he said yes said "make sure he gets this".

 

The amount was paid to get the solicitors out of the equation as all they seemed to do was just add on fees and costs for no reason whatsoever.

 

Now to the problem, on THE VERY SAME DAY, that I paid them off the Council had the very same solicitors send an SD for unpaid council tax on a property I do own (and rent out) as they had applied for, and been given liability orders, in my name, for this property.

 

I went to the Magistrates Court to ask for them to be contested, I was told that the court don't keep any paperwork for this and only the council themselves can apply for them to be overturned.

 

I attended the County Court to apply for the SD to be set aside on the grounds that I was contesting the liability orders, the Judge said that was outside his powers and refused my application (the other side did not attend).

 

The tenant in the property has supplied the council with bills, in his name, dating back to 2001, the council will not accept them as they say anyone can put a bill in any name and as there is a shop at the front of the property (totally separate) it could refer to that, even though he has supplied his phone bill, (not for the shop), his gas bill, (the shop doesn't have any), and his "StayWarm" bill, (which you can't get on commercial premises), he has provided them with his rent book, which the council have said could have been made at any time and proves nothing, they have asked him (and I am quoting from a letter they have sent here) "...to present himself at their offices or One Stop Shop with ID such as passport, drivers licence, national insurance number or tax return so that they can be verified..." They have also asked me to do the same as they want to know where I live.

 

I have today spoken to the process server, a -- edited out --, he said that he had attended the property a number of times but was unable to get a reply, eventually he made service by posting the SD through the door. I asked how many times he had been to the property, he stated at least three, including the delivery (I told him I was recording the conversation). I then asked him if he had spoken to anyone at the property at any time, at first he said no, then said that he had asked some men in a shop nearby if I had any connection to the property and they had said yes. I then asked him what he would say if I told him I had statements from those men saying that what he had actually said was "Do you know which one xxx is (the address he claimed tohave been to twice before)" and that he had spent the previous few minutes in and out of the various shops asking for the address and that they had provided me with a copy of their CCTV showing him looking for the address and apparently trying to work out the numbers as he was shown pacing up and down in front of them appearing to count out the doors. He was silent for a while then said that he would make "no comment", I asked if he would be contacting the solicitors to explain that he had not served the papers correctly, he said that he was going on holiday today and would contact them on his return, in two weeks .

 

The solicitors involved, -- edited --, made a petition to the court for a bankruptcy order on 21st April (2011) and the Judge, "upon reading the affidavit of the process server -- edited --" ordered that a sealed copyof the petition be served upon me by First Class Prepaid Post at the address I rent out to my tenant and this would be good service.

 

On the 3rd June 2011 -- edited -- posted the petition to the address, which luckily I warned my tenant to be on the lookout for.

 

The case is listed for Tuesday 21st June, which obviously gives me very little time to file a 6.19, or to find a solicitor to represent me (why it took them two weeks to send this to me I can only guess at, but it does leave me at somewhat of a disadvantage).

 

I am not responsible for this, my tenant, who has all the bills in his name and is registered to vote here has repeatedly asked the council to transfer liability, but for some reason (I suspect related to the original matter) they refuse to do so and insist that I am liable.

 

Ideas of what to do or where to go next would be greatly appreciated.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Conniff

[MARTIN3030]

A truly shocking story.

I will flag this up for site team.

[MARTIN3030]

I think perhaps you should also copy and paste this thread and post up in the bailiff forums-simply because there are many there who have had lots of experience with council tax disputes and maybe can add some thoughts.

[IdaInFife]

have you supplied a copy of the tenanacy agreement? this should stipulate that the tennant is responsible and will stop all action unless it is not details on the TA?

[MARTIN3030]

Have you at any point been onto the Local Gov Ombudsman about this?

[Keep Smiling]

have you supplied a copy of the tenanacy agreement? this should stipulate that the tennant is responsible and will stop all action unless it is not details on the TA?

 

The Council have been supplied with Teanancy Agreements (which clearly state that the tenant is responsible for Council Tax), and the tenant has phoned the Council to say that they want the Tax to be in their name, but the council refuse to transfer it over, everytime they -- edited -- are contacted it gets referred to a "senior staff member" called -- edited --, who wants to spend more time playing word games than her job.

 

For example; after handing in Tenancy agreements, rent books, almost 10 years of bills from various companies showing that my tenant was actually living there, and her saying that this wasn't enough to prove it I asked her:

"What is it you actually want ?",

her reply:

"I don't want anything, it is you that has to prove you're not liable for this." (the underlined words are how she emphasised the statement)

Edited June 13, 2011 by Conniff

[Keep Smiling]

Have you at any point been onto the Local Gov Ombudsman about this?

 

I contacted the LGO to make a complaint and was told that I had to go through the Council complaint procedure first, I called the Council and was put through to someone regarding this who asked for details, I told them the briefest outline of the complaint possible but said as much of this related to a senior member of staff in their department it wouldn't be fair of me to give them all of the complaints I had against this person and would it be possible for somebody to call me back (perhaps I try to play too fair).

I was told that someone would contact me shortly to take full details.

 

A few weeks later I received a letter from the council apologising for their delay in dealing with this and informing me that I would be contacted shortly

.

A few weeks later I received a letter saying that they had fully investigated my complaint (which I hadn't actually made, I hadn't given details of my complaint to anyone, just that I had one regarding Council Tax Liability orders) and that they found no grounds for the complaint whatsoever and that no-one had ever complained about a "highly respected" senior member of staff from that department before.

 

I called back asking how they had conducted an investigation when they didn't know what they were looking into and was told that their enquiries were complete and my "case" was being dealt with by the Insolvency Practitioner and any further enquiries I had to forward to them, which I did. -- edited -- added more more money to their already increasing costs and said that i should just pay the outstanding balance or they were going to sell my house (a recurring theme in many of my conversations with them).

Edited June 13, 2011 by Conniff

[Conniff]

......... served a bankruptcy petition on someone (who wasn't me).........

 

Are you saying that the name of the person it was served on was different from yours or it was someone with the same name as you ??

[Keep Smiling]

Are you saying that the name of the person it was served on was different from yours or it was someone with the same name as you ??

 

The Bankruptcy Petition was "served" on someone who works for me at a separate address, (it seems that they'd worked out by this time that I wasn't living at the address they had the liability orders for), I wasn't there so can only rely on what I was told, and later sworn to in an affidavit served on the IP and WBC.

 

The Process Server (or Bailiff) came into a shop I own and asked for me, one of the staff members asked if they could help (I'm asked for a lot, many people seem to think that prices change, service differs or the opening times are moved if they know the owners name), he handed over an envelope and left.

 

I didn't find out about this until weeks later, on the Friday as the case was to be heard on the Monday, so was out of time to file a 6.19 (or to obtain representation). I attended Birkenhead County Court and explained to the Judge that I knew nothing about this, that the property wasn't mine, that the petition hadn't been served on me as I'd not even been in the Country on that date and had my passport with me to prove it. I stated that not only did the property have nothing to do with me but that the address on the SD differed to that on the Bankruptcy petition AND on the Liability Orders (different addresses, both of which exist some 2miles from each other, none of which have anything to do with me), the Judge said that as I was present I'd obviously received the petition at some point and he considered that to be good service. By this time I was becoming a little desparate to said that even though it wasn't my responsibility I would pay the outstanding balance (around £2950) and contest it later to avoid the bankruptcy. He asked if I had those funds with me, I said that I had about £3000 on me (I was advised to go prepared), his immediate response was that that wasn't enough as there were fees on top now, the bankruptcy was granted and would I please leave (this all happened in the five seconds following my offer to pay £3000 for a bill I didn't owe).

 

Obviously I wasn't too happy about this and so went immediately over to see the Receiver in Liverpool, I gave him all the details, he seemed very sypathetic and said that he would look into it. I heard nothing then for almost two and a half years, nothing changed, nobody knocked on my door, everything carried on as normal until one morning I receive a letter from -- edited -- telling me that unless I paid and cleared my bankruptcy they were going to sell my house.

 

I did have a rather strange conversation with a -- edited --, I kept calling to ask them how much I owed, but nobody would ever tell me, eventually I managed to get hold of -- edited -- on his mobile as he was driving somewhere, I told him that I couldn't pay the bill as no-one would tell me how much it was, but that I had a property that Liverpool City Council were in the process of buying from me as part of a regeneration project and if I signed that over to them would that bring this to a halt. His reply was that they didn't want the property in Liverpool and that: "we're having your house".

Edited June 13, 2011 by Conniff

[Conniff]

Sorry to be going on about something that might appear old and finished, is this a private dwelling?

 

Can you confirm that you 'Have never owned that property or have never rented it as a tenant and have never resided there?

 

The petition was in your name but handed to someone else?

[Keep Smiling]

Sorry to be going on about something that might appear old and finished, is this a private dwelling?

 

Can you confirm that you 'Have never owned that property or have never rented it as a tenant and have never resided there?

 

The petition was in your name but handed to someone else?

 

That's okay I'm open to any offers of help, I only mentioned this matter as it gave some history but if it helps with the current situation.

 

The original bankruptcy issued in 2006 was based on unpaid Council Tax leading to Liability Orders on a private dwelling.

 

I have never owned that property, I have never rented it as a tenant neither have I ever resided there.

 

The petition was in my name and it was given to somebody else.

[Conniff]

I'm interested in the past issue as we are talking in excess of £35,000. I would suggest that you reappraise this and the first move would be to contact the Land Registry and find out the details of the owner of the house at the time. You might be aware of the owner at the time, but you need it on Land Registry headed paper. The fee is only nominal.

[Keep Smiling]

I'm interested in the past issue as we are talking in excess of £35,000. I would suggest that you reappraise this and the first move would be to contact the Land Registry and find out the details of the owner of the house at the time. You might be aware of the owner at the time, but you need it on Land Registry headed paper. The fee is only nominal.

 

I do know who owns the property, I contacted him (he still owns it) although he has never lived there he has rented out the property to various tenants over the years.

 

When I contacted the tenant who was in residence for the entire period the liability was made against me he gave me full details of where he had lived, dates, and that he had contacted the Council about this when I approached him, he told me that someone from the council had called him (he said her name was -- edited --but I suspect he means -- edited --, another recurring theme within this saga), who told him that he wasn't to worry as they wouldn't be chasing him for the amount as the liability orders were in my name and not his.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Conniff

[Conniff]

Do you have any idea why the Council would name you on the liability orders? there must be something the Council had that indicated that you had a relationship to the property.

 

The person at the top or nearest to the top of the following list has to pay the bill:

• lives in the property and owns it

• lives in the property and has a lease (this includes 'assured tenants' under the Housing Act 1988)

• lives in the property and is a 'statutory' or 'secure' tenant

• lives in the property and isn't a tenant but has permission to live there

• lives in the property (for example a squatter)

• has a lease of six months or more on the property, but doesn't live there

• owns the property but doesn't live there

 

Seeing as you are none of the above, then you must follow this up.

 

http://landregistryservices.co.uk/

[Keep Smiling]

Do you have any idea why the Council would name you on the liability orders? there must be something the Council had that indicated that you had a relationship to the property.

 

The person at the top or nearest to the top of the following list has to pay the bill:

• lives in the property and owns it

• lives in the property and has a lease (this includes 'assured tenants' under the Housing Act 1988)

• lives in the property and is a 'statutory' or 'secure' tenant

• lives in the property and isn't a tenant but has permission to live there

• lives in the property (for example a squatter)

• has a lease of six months or more on the property, but doesn't live there

• owns the property but doesn't live there

 

Seeing as you are none of the above, then you must follow this up.

 

 

 

 

I have asked the Council until I'm blue in the face how my name appeared on these orders, all they ever did, with any question, letter or phonecall I made to them was to forward it to -- edited --. This (apart from repossession and eviction if I didn't) was the reason I paid them off so the council would give me a straight answer to my questions.

 

The only explanation I can come up with is that I have some shops nearby and someone had messed up on the numbers, but nothing I have ever been given or told gives any indication why they decided that I had responsibilty for it.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Conniff

[Conniff]

Ok - so are you interested in going further with this and opening up the chance of recovering monies that appear should never have been paid and a bankruptcy that appears should never have been granted ?

[Keep Smiling]

Ok - so are you interested in going further with this and opening up the chance of recovering monies that appear should never have been paid and a bankruptcy that appears should never have been granted ?

 

 

That was what I intended to do as soon as -- edited -- had finally declared the case over and that they, and-- edited --, had no further interest and I could finally start work on Wirral Borough Council without them referring everything to them.

 

The current matter however has meant that this has now had to be expediated somewhat as I now have to prevent this circus from starting all over again.

 

What do you suggest as the next step ?

Edited June 13, 2011 by Conniff

[Conniff]

The first step is to go to the Land Registry and get the documents that show you did not own the property.

[Keep Smiling]

The first step is to go to the Land Registry and get the documents that show you did not own the property.

 

I already have a copy from the Land Registry website, is that what is needed or do I need a certified copy from the offices (I can get that in the morning)

[Conniff]

I have edited out the names KS as I think we should keep them to ourselves at present.

 

The next move is to get all the documentation from the council. You could try a simple Subject Access Request along with £10 naming what documents must be included and see what you get back from that.

 

I have some problem understanding this KS:

 

The IP then applied for possession of MY house (they couldn't get it on the house the tax should have been paid on as it wasn't in my name,

 

That would have rang bells, 'we can't reposses the house he has just been convicted over because it isn't his'.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Conniff

[Keep Smiling]

I have edited out the names KS as I think we should keep them to ourselves at present.

 

The next move is to get all the documentation from the council. You could try a simple Subject Access Request along with £10 naming what documents must be included and see what you get back from that.

 

I have some problem understanding this KS:

 

 

 

That would have rang bells, 'we can't reposses the house he has just been convicted over because it isn't his'.

 

 

I have no problem whatsoever with names being listed, I have always omitted the names of people who have no connection with this and have made no derogatory remarks regarding any person. I have kept every letter that the Council have ever sent to me and have always recorded every conversation, I did tell them in the beginning that I was doing this but as their own introduction states that calls may be recorded I assumed implied consent for me to do the same as they were already aware that recording was in place.

 

However if you wish to remove the names obviously I will comply with future posts.

 

I agree I would have thought that would have set off the bells to anyone, but it appears that for Wirral Borough Council their action was not to investigate and perhaps see what had happened/gone wrong, but to instead serve the very last document (after serving all the others on a property I didn't own) on one I did (own), but didn't live at.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Keep Smiling

[Conniff]

So what's your next move ?

[Keep Smiling]

So what's your next move ?

 

Well I've served the 6.19 on the Courts and the Solicitors, now I'm preparing to serve WBC with a SAR.

 

Any other suggestions ?

[h3ctor]

i am still waiting for my SAR from Wirral Council for over 3 months!

 

Its interesting to see that Wirral Council has messed you around also in bankruptcy!

[Keep Smiling]

Apologies for the duplicate post, as suggested I move this over to the Bailiff section and things prgressed, slightly. However after a discovery this week I thought I would post my latest find here as this throws every Bankruptcy, Liability Order and Sworn Statement ever made by Wirral Borough Council into question (an exaggeration, you decide).

 

 

Once again, thank you for all the help and suggestions, sorry it's taken so long to reply on this but I've been very ill.

 

Still waiting on the SAR request, well it's only been a year, and I've only reminded them about half a dozen times.

 

I've come back though because of a (I think) HUGE find this week, but I'll come to that later.

 

 

The bankruptcy (the 2nd one) was refused by the judge as all the outstanding amounts had been paid, I was ordered to pay WBC's costs (not all as I argued the short service defence and he agreed) but still an extra £800 on top of the 4k already paid.

 

 

They "still" won't put the Council Tax in my tenants name, and won't give the 25% discount on it, same excuses as always, so for now just living with it.

 

 

As you may have read in the news a large number of senior WBC staff (most of the people I've mentioned before) have "left" due to various allegations and payments they may have received involving contracts, I believe this is why the local paper didn't run this story when I contacted them as they may have known something was already in the pipeline.

 

 

This week I received an interesting email from the tenant of the property I was actually made bankrupt for, the first property, the one I don't own or live at but the Council swore I was responsible for, that they had liability orders, in my name for and that they'd never heard of the person who lived there (despite him supplying an affidavit that they did and that they'd visited the property when he was there).

 

 

Well (you're going to like this), this week the property was having some work done (new kitchen before Christmas) and when one of the cupboards were pulled out they found some letters that had fell down the back. Some of these letters are from Wirral Borough Council, and they include the bill for Council Tax (for the period they say I was responsible for it) and the Summons to attend Court as they are applying for a liability order (the one they told the Judge they had in my name and the basis on which the bankruptcy was made which cost me almost £40k in their fees alone).

 

 

Two things:

 

 

 

 

1. THEY ARE NOT ADDRESSED TO ME, THEY'RE NOT IN MY NAME

 

2. They ARE in the name of the person they claimed/swore on oath, never to have heard of.

 

Yes, it would appear that WBC has REALLY shot themselves in the foot.

 

 

This means that not only did they know that person, they knew he was there, it was HIM they made the application for in Court and then they just fiddled the paperwork when they found someone else they wanted to pay it and lied to the county court over and over again.

 

 

I'm not sure if I should march in with this, phone the new CEO and explain politely that I want my money back, or go to the Police with the letters from K. Chan saying that such person does not exist and they have no records about him and bring criminal charges, right now I can't get the smile off my face, because this then calls into question the second bankruptcy application and all of it's costs as well.

 

I need to calm down and decide what to do next, this has been the last six years of my life they have messed about with, a little while longer won't hurt a bit. Be nice if they read this though and it gave them a few night sweats.

 

Suggestion appreciated.