1st Stop and AoE by the old address judgement trick - help to set aside please ****Claim Withdrawn****

[Signaller]

Sorry I didn't reply earlier.I am logged in but got sidetracked at work.Is the N1 the claim form?If so, I did ask the Court Staff for a copy but was advised 'only a Judge/Court can order this'.I don't know if the claimant would have a copy, but I did ask for all documentation regarding legal action, and they sent absolutely nothing at all.Including the SAR, I have asked three times for a statement and they either cannot or will not supply me with one.I have never, at any time, received a DN,and they (again) either cannot or will not supply a copy or even confirm if one was actually sent. I'm due to finish in about an hour, but will try to get online somewhere over the weekend.I'm actually looking forward to Monday.The Set Aside should be granted.Wish me luck.Regards..Signaller

[caro]

The POC is what was put in the online claim, which I think you have don't you? The N1 is only used for claims made via the courts, but my understanding is that this was an online claim.

[Signaller]

Caro, yes you are correct.Initially the claim was made via Northampton.It was transferred to my local County Court.I don't know how.As said at the beginning of my thread, I only became aware that legal action was being taken against me when I received a notice of an AoE order.Everything that had been sent prior to this was sent to my previous address.When I queried at my local Court why everything had been sent to my previous address, and only the AoE to my correct (current) address, I was told that they sent correspondence to the address the claimant gave to them. The claimant was aware of my correct address at all times, and I have proof of this.Thank You again for your time.Regards..Signaller

[caro]

Well your argument for the set aside seems rock solid to me, but it's the judge you have to convince. Go get 'em!

[AndyOrch]

The POC is what was put in the online claim, which I think you have don't you? The N1 is only used for claims made via the courts, but my understanding is that this was an online claim.

 

Its still an N1 claim form Caro even if made on line CCBC or Local County Court..

 

Regards

 

Andy

[caro]

I stand corrected Andy. I never knew that.

[Signaller]

I will have to go shortly, as my relief will be here soon.I have one more thing to ask please. Am I allowed to bring their (the claimants) conduct of the way they have brought this action to the DJ's attention, or is it a matter for another time and day.Regards to Everyone who has helped me so far.Thank You so much.Signaller

[AndyOrch]

No problem Caro but you are absolutely correct its the P.o.C that is fundamental and a necessity to any re defence.

Sig I have never had a problem requesting a copy of any N1 I think you are being led up the garden path here.

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

I will have to go shortly, as my relief will be here soon.I have one more thing to ask please. Am I allowed to bring their (the claimants) conduct of the way they have brought this action to the DJ's attention, or is it a matter for another time and day.Regards to Everyone who has helped me so far.Thank You so much.Signaller

 

Another time another day, get the Set a Side first then get the N1, get the paperwork.

 

Andy

[Signaller]

Thanks yet again Andy.I must go now.Going to relax over the weekend and see what happens on Monday.Obviously I will post again late Monday.Bye for now.Regards..Signaller

[Signaller]

UPDATE...As expected, they didn't even turn up.No letter to the Court even.DJ wasn't impressed.Didn't get my Set Aside though.DJ asked me if I had a statement from them.I explained their refusal to provide a statement, and they have been ordered to provide one to me and the Court by a certain time and date.The DJ explained he could not Set Aside judgement unless I could show a reasonable prospect of defending.How can I when they refuse to comply?He did say though, that the application is only adjoured until the next date, so it hasn't been granted yet or declined.I thought it would heve been granted today because I satisfy quite a few of the reasons to have it Set Aside.I would, as usual, appreciate anyones thoughts, and suggestions how to proceed.Regards..Signaller

[AndyOrch]

A statement of what Sig? what difference would a statement have made to an application to set a side? Did he want to deal with the defence today?

Oh well if they didnt even bother to attend today i doubt they will bother with a " Statement " what ever that has on relevance of a decision.You did state that you had never received the summons? that was all the reasonable prospect needed.

 

Andy

[Signaller]

DJ asked if I had a statement of account.I did say that I do not know what,if anything, I do actually owe.We all know how they were able to obtain the Judgement in the first place but it didn't seem obvious to the DJ.He never mentioned anything about dealing with the defence today.To confirm, I have never received a DN/TN/LBA/Summons. All I have ever received is the notification of the AoE order.They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this.I don't know if I have to provide a defence by the next hearing date.The DJ just said he will deal with the application to Set Aside at the next hearing date.I have to go in a few minutes, as I'm using a PC at the library, but will try to find somewhere else to get online later.Signaller

[Signaller]

Hi Everyone,I thought, along with all of you who have replied. that the Set Aside was certain.They knew where I was living, and I have proof.I'm not sure what to do now.I could start putting a defence together if I had the required documents.As the the DJ has ordered them to provide a detailed statement by a certain time and date, I'm hoping they can't,or don't.Maybe he will strike out!I don't know.Can someone please advise how to proceed.I will pop back in later today.Tahnk You all again.

 

Regards

 

Signaller

[caro]

It would seem that the judge thinks it would be a waste of time setting the judgment aside unless you have a very strong defence. If he set it aside and you go on to lose the case anyway you might find yourself subject to some hefty costs, unless you can convince the judge that you are justified in your action due to them not sending everything to the right address, or sending the proper documentation so that you could deal with it.

 

What you need to think about now is how you would have dealt with this claim if it had been properly served. You need to know if the amount is accurate which they've been told to supply. Does it include PPI and was it mis-sold? Does it include charges? Would you have defended?

 

I fear that in many cases lack of documentation does not seem to worry judges. All they want to know is did you borrow the money and if so you need to pay it back, so all you can do for now is lots of research to see if there is something special in your case that will convince a judge that the claim isn't enforceable.

 

Prepare a budget sheet and work out how much you can afford to pay if the worst comes to the worst. There's a template here. Budget Sheet.xls

 

How long did the judge give to provide a statement of account, and did he give an indication of when the next hearing may be? Did he say anything about costs?

 

You know now that you can never predict what will happen in court, so you need to think about whether you're prepared to carry on fighting, or if it might be worth seeing if you can settle on terms that are acceptable to you, without incurring costs.

[AndyOrch]

Dear Signaller, thank you for your second letter re the SAR.I suspect this situation is going to keep going backward and forwards for some considerable period of time.May I make the following observations:1. Firstly you do not dispute the debt.2.You do however dispute that the default notice and particulars of claim were served to you at the incorrect address.3.Because of this you have applied to have the judgement set aside...if this occurred then we can of course re-issue and then obtain judgement against you.Can I suggest that to avoidany further time wasting for us both that we agree a cost effective settlement.I would suggest that we would accept a sum of £350 in full and final settlement of you account payable within 30 days of this letter.If you agree with this please contact myself on 07********* and we can formalise this agreement and postpone the hearing on xx/xx/xx pending receipt.I look forward to hearing from you early next week.Yours blah blah blah.

 

Now the door is open to possible settlement contact them before the next hearing and state you are prepare to negotiate and get them down to the true figure.Im sure they will accept to avoid possible further costs for the sake of £150.

Put an end to this matter and relieve you of the stress and possible further costs.?

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

The above are from August 16th I think you may need to consider this option now Sig in light of yesterdays conclusion.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Signaller]

Thank You both for replying.They claim they agree to lend me £x.This is wrong.I do not know what, if anything I do owe.This is one of the reasons I asked for a statement, amongst other things.I may or may not owe less,or more,than £350.There are procedures to follow, and they clearly did not follow them.We are expected to follow procedures, so why not them.If the judgement stands, then I am having to pay their costs to date.There was no mention of costs at the hearing though.They have 14 days to provide myself and the Court with a detailed statement.I don't really have any defence at the moment, as you know they have not provided what I have asked for.At the end of the day I know it is my decision on how to proceed.The DJ didn't give a specific date for the next hearing.Just that they are ordered to provide a detailed statement within 14 days, and the next hearing would be soon after.How could a judgement possibly stand, if the amount they are claiming is wrong?I value your opinions and advice, and look forward to any furthwer comments.Thank You..Regards..Signaller

The DJ did say that the Set Aside is only adjourned, yesterday wasn't a final decision.

Edited August 23, 2011 by Signaller
Forgot to Add

[DonkeyB]

To be honest, Signaller, another problem may be the way you dealt with the judge. Did you insist on presenting your case to him, pointing out all the important facts, and asking for a judgment?

 

If you assumed he would simply read and understand you have fallen into a very common litigant in person trap of assuming the judge would be thorough. They need pushing!

[AndyOrch]

Most LiPs are reluctant to take on a DJ I don't know why, they are only human (I think?) If you think they are wrong state they are wrong (with the greatest respect)

If you don't accept then state you don't accept.After all their indecisiveness and lack of knowledge of the law may affect your livelihood for a long time and you only get one throw of the dice in these matters.

 

Andy

[Signaller]

I was only in for about 5 minutes yesterday.I assumed yesterday was only about the Set Aside, and if it was granted, then any defence I had would be heard at the next hearing.Perhaps I showed him too much respect.I had proof they were aware of my correct address.The DJ had in front of him copies of the two letters I referred to earlier, which confirms they knew where I was living.But I thought all that I had with me was for another day.I guess I will have to try to be more assertive next time.After three requests for a statement from myself they have not provided one.I wonder if they come up with something in the next 14 days.Signaller

[AndyOrch]

In hindsight and as implied in my earlier posts Sig it was a case of him needing more of a proposed defence should he set a side. Not right as the hearing should be to decide just the set a side.Different DJ,s different approaches.One of the most common reasons for a set a side is the wrong address tactic and the most used reason which is accepted without further explanation.Lets see what comes of the order and any impending hearing.

 

Andy

[Signaller]

Andy, I know you said in an earlier post that some DJ's can deal with the defence at the same time, but I could not put a defence together with what I have so far.Their statement of case is wrong.They did not lend what they claim to have. I have rock solid proof they were aware of my correct address.I will have to point it out at the next hearing if I'm allowed the time. Then theres the DN/TN/LBA.I have never received either of these, and have asked for them, or rather copies but they either cannot or will not comply.As usual, I will update you on events as and when they occurr..Regards..Signaller

[Signaller]

Hi, it's been a while (or rather seems like it) since I last posted.I received a letter yesterday from the claimant headed ' Notice of Sum in Arrears', and dated a few days ago.It does not say or suggest it is a copy of one sent previously.It gives a total balance and an arrears balance and asks that if I have not already done so,I should send a cheque for the full arrears balance by return of post.How can they issue this notice AFTER judgement and enforcement?They were ordered by the DJ to supply myself and the Court with a detailed statement by a certain date.They have not done so.Not sure what to make of this.When someone has the time can you please advise further.I was supposed to have received from the Court a letter stating what was discussed at the hearing, and the outcome.I've not received anything to date, but will phone the Court this morning and post again later today.Thank You, in advance.RegardsSignaller

[Signaller]

Just came off the phone after speaking with someone at the Court. The letters to myself and the claimant regarding the Set Aside hearing were only sent out two days ago.So the letter I received from them yesterday obviously was not a response to the hearing.I feel a bit silly asking this, but I must. Are 'Default Notice' and 'Notice of Arrears' the same.I ask this because there is no date stated to rectify the arrears in the letter I received.Just that if I have not already done so, I should send a cheque for the arrears ammount.Surely they should have sent this prior to any Court actionI'm starting to struggle again with this now, as there are other personal issues I'm dealing with at home as well.As usual, any comments/help/advice will be greatly appreciated.Regards..Signaller

[AndyOrch]

Hi Sig

 

What you received yesterday was your annual Notice of Arrears, this is a new must from now on (CCA2006 amendments)

They have to comply with this if they intend to charge interest, so completely separate to your Set a Side.

 

Very confusing also considering they have a judgment perhaps they think they have to comply if they intend to charge post Judgment interest?

 

Ok a Default Notice is a notice of breach within an agreement which is usually applied after missing 2/3 months payments.The DN must be furnished and allow you opportunity to rectify any breach within 14 days.It must also be issued if they intend to terminate the agreement and commence litigation.

Some DN,s can also be a Termination Notice also ( ie we intend to terminate this account on or after xx xxx xxx usually after the 14 days) typed with in the DN

some creditors issue a separate Termination Notice after the DN.

 

Update when you receive the paperwork from Court.

 

Regards

 

Andy