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    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Tax credits do prosecute too !!!!


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We surely would not want it seen the other way?

 

That you can be guaranteed court for any deceipt or error leading to you having broken your agreement with benefits as in informing of changes, wether that be housing or income support etc.....but that if that ammount is 2,001 then you can hang for months and months terrified that your error will see a possible single mum with no other help at risk of prison and losing kids, but that if you are in a family overclaimed 18k in tax credits even possibly in some cases deliberately or it was allowed to go on, that after one stressfull call to tax credits you can switch off and just discretely repay it.

 

Something seems wrong there !!!!!!!!!

 

No fraud is okay and needs to be nipped in the bug pronto, but it would appear tax credit fraud is being treat with some feeling it deserves more sympathy?

 

Or could that be dependant on what your present situation is?

 

Sorry has to be said xx

 

Some benefit claimants fearing that the dwp will make a similar error again are deliberately not claiming what entitled to , to jsut avoid such threats when errors reoccur or appear, thats how bad the fear can be. To avoid similar fears tax credit claimants should simply reconsider what they are doing as I am sure they will have to stamp down on this soon as cases will appear in court comparing I am sure that one treatment is not considered any worse than anothers.

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I am quite aware of the point you were making and I never at any point in my post said that I disagree with you. The rules on punishment for benefit fraud should be the same across all government bodies.

 

I just thought this site was here for the sole purpose to help, support and offer advice to distressed people - whatever the situation they find themsleves in, and most importantly without judgement.

 

I just found your post rather insensitive given the fact that by your own admission you have read alot of posts from people who are in a desperate situation with tax credits.

 

For someone who is in a fragile state anyway to read such opinions from yourself can tip some people over the edge. Some people have written that they are suicidal - I personally would want to offer sympathy, suppport and advice and nothing but.

 

I accept that your opinions are, in the main part, about the system in general but I still feel they are inappropriate and found some comments very judgemental at a time when so many people who are likely to read your comments are at a breaking point already.

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I hope I get this reply right! I think yes tax credit fraud is being highlighted more and more and yes there are more posts on the subject, this again proves they are clamping down. Like everyone knows the tax credit system is very poor, checks do not seem to be made, but I think that is all changing.

 

I am not disagreeing with what has been said, but I think for someone to read this thread it could be upsetting, and un-nerving, especially if they are dealing with a tax credit overpayment, be it large or small. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and to air their views But I always try not to judge people, not saying anyone is being judged via this thread, but I do feel people come on here and ask for advice, its the first step in sorting out the problem they are faced with (myself included).

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If I had started this debate on your thread, you would have a right to take it personally, but it is not personal and not against you.

 

When many cases of tax credit fraud appear on a help site it should not be too unexpected surely that a debate might appear as to why? and any discrepancies between treatment in type of beneift might appear also?

 

I have every sympathy for fellow human beings, that is why I have started this thread !!!!!

 

If anyone feels this thread is out of order, please click below this post on the triangle and the site team can take a look in, I personally dont think an issue noticed by more than just me is confrontational xx

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Give me an example where someone has not received the support?

 

My thread does not stop any support to anyone, neither should it or would it !!!!!!!!

 

I am not CAG just one little poster who gains support herself, who might not always like what i read, but hey we learn by it step by step.

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Can I just say I agree that this place is for support, & 99% of the time it does what it says on the tin, But it can also be quite upsetting for people that have receieved letters saying they may have been committing benefit fraud & could be liable for prosecution, when their over payment is just over the 2k mark, they come on here & read threads where people have gone out their way to lie about child care & claimed 10/15/20k more than they should, & that person says oh it turned out fine, I just have to pay it back. It was all sorted over the phone, no IUC, one person was even told by tax credits that it's understandable people do things like that with the credit crunch at the moment.

That could be seen as insensitive too.

That's why I agree that it does need to be equalled out.

By the way, did anyone watch Saints & scroungers tonight?

The family of 9 that defrauded the council out of 160k!!? I am just watching it now on catch up.

168k in fact. They owned 4 houses amongst them worth 1.5 million.

A few of them got prison & only 2 got suspended sentences, the old man & a daughter. They even tried selling off cars & one house to another family member as they thought then their assets wouldn't get taken. But apparently that idea wont work for them.

Edited by jadeybags
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I havent read a thread on here where support hasnt been offered, I was just suggesting that a lot of posts I have read regarding fradulent issues, most are not asking for any kind of sympathy, it actually takes guts to come on here and admit wrong doing. And no everything should not be covered up with roses, when on a site like this, things will be read that are upsetting to some people, it is to be expected. Your post isnt offensive, you are clearly stating your thought and opinion, some will agree, some maybe disagree, and some beg to differ.

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Can I just say I agree that this place is for support, & 99% of the time it does what it says on the tin, But it can also be quite upsetting for people that have receieved letters saying they may have been committing benefit fraud & could be liable for prosecution, when their over payment is just over the 2k mark, they come on here & read threads where people have gone out their way to lie about child care & claimed 10/15/20k more than they should, & that person says oh it turned out fine, I just have to pay it back. It was all sorted over the phone, no IUC, one person was even told by tax credits that it's understandable people do things like that with the credit crunch at the moment.

That could be seen as insensitive too.

That's why I agree that it does need to be equalled out.

By the way, did anyone watch Saints & scroungers tonight?

The family of 9 that defrauded the council out of 160k!!? I am just watching it now on catch up.

 

Nope didnt see that, what channel was it on?

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Yeh BBC1 7.30. I watch Corrie then so forget it's on usually, I was actually trying to find Embarrassing illnesses on catch up, but it wasn't up there yet, & then spotted Saints & Sinners.

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Yep I watched that show too, them desperately trying to flog a house for 25K to an aquaintance or family cant remember.

 

I dont mean to hurt anyone at all and am way to sensitive myself it seems or i know, but that does not mean subjects like this cannot be discussed when relevant. AT no point has anyone asking for help been refused by cag and the only threads that have been so, have been deliberatly trying to beat the system which cag has wisely picked up on.

 

I hope they change the system soon xx

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I agree the forum is for support, but a healthy debate of opinions on what fraud is is good too.

 

There are countless threads of people in a panic because HMRC has finally caught them, would they have volunteered the information themselves without being prompted? We will never know. However, a thread like this where opinions on fraud are discussed are worthwhile.

 

It is a public forum and you will inevitably find viewpoints which are the polar opposite of your own however that is not cause to stop.

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I may be the only one that is wondering this at the moment, & it is no attack on anyone that's done this (by their own admission on here) but the amount of 'I claimed too much child care' threads shows that there is definitely a need to change how HMRC deal with Tax credits, the child care element in particular.

How come they haven't noticed the amount of over payments in this region yet?

If we have to state how much we earnt at the end of the tax year, looking at our p60's, why dont they ask the same of child care costs? Am curious about that.

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The fact that there has been an influx of threads certainly indicates there is a crackdown underway with regards the childcare. The facility is now available to have costs checked before they are added. It appears to have been an easy way to steal public funding and HMRC must shoulder some of the blame for soft penalties and a poor system of checks. Better late than never perhaps...

 

Facility for front line advisors to send aspects of claims to be checked is most definitely in operation. I believe we have spoken in The past regarding HMRCs public paper on plans to tackle fraud and error. The have a joint prosecution initiative with the DWP which seems to imply a greater access to informations between departments so checks do seem to be on the increase, as this forum will testify.

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It seems madness that the DWP & HMRC don't follow they same procedure.

The risk of prosecution will vary from whict dept a person thieved from.

 

Yep, it's actually quite baffling that someone that defrauds DWP out of 15k is warned by their solicitor that yes, prison is a possibility, as was my friend, even though his wasn't actually his doing & thankfully because of that the court case was halted on the morning of it! Yet someone can defraud tax credits of 15k & they are told they just need to pay it back. That divide needs to stop.

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I'm wondering if the reson for being treated differently is DWP is for people that don't work, and so how can they repay overpaid money on an already means tested income. Their only income is benefits. HMRC is help towards people that work and so have other income that they should be able to repay?

 

Just a thought?

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Should make no difference as it is still a matter of right and wrong no matter how desperate a claimant is working or not or error or not!!!!!!!!!!

 

Sympathise can be shown for both sides, but it has to be said there appears to be more tax credits naughtiness going on than normal benefit issues wether fraud or not.

 

I say again with normal benefits even an error overlooked which okay like tax credits you need to inform of changes as we know we should, but the fact one fraudster to put it bluntly wether intent or error as looked apon by dwp is a court case or another as looked apon by HMRC as oh well just repay is not right.

 

To even the balance up they should either show same compassion to benefit cases or same resolve to prosecute re hmrc cases.

 

Either way desperate people do desperate things, but in either case it has to stop as resulting stress of months of what you see people hanging on can be intense reagarding benefit issue or a simple call and relaax in the chair re HMRC issue.

 

Cant have it both ways and I am only playing devils advocat there and wish no one ill xx

 

But yes nail on head, the benefit issues are treat it would seem as **** of earth whilst working as a higher class of fraud it would appear.

 

 

Got to admit I have a point.:-)

 

Any one no matter what will get help on cag to do the right thing either way xx

 

I suspect akin to the determined benefit fraudsters there will be some cases who cottoned onto the possibility of defrauding or borrowing the supposed loan needed till found out due to its lax procedures, that does not mean it is okay to do it and therefore people should be aware they will only get tougher and future genuine errors may be treated akin to benefit errors where you are put in the stocks because of others actions. xx:madgrin:

 

Record all calls to HMRC and DWP to protect yourself as to when declaring something or change or reknewing, to prove you have done so, then you can fight back when errors have occured which may cause similar stresses but which were not intent xx

 

When you can show that recording, your worries soon go xx

Edited by watchinginvestigation2011
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That's good advice, and I agree all should be treated the same, however I'm only suggesting the possibilites as to why they are treated differently, as clearly they are? But I'm in agreeance with you, we are all human, just different lives and circumstances xx

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