Tax credits do prosecute too !!!!

[watchinginvestigation2011]

We surely would not want it seen the other way?

 

That you can be guaranteed court for any deceipt or error leading to you having broken your agreement with benefits as in informing of changes, wether that be housing or income support etc.....but that if that ammount is 2,001 then you can hang for months and months terrified that your error will see a possible single mum with no other help at risk of prison and losing kids, but that if you are in a family overclaimed 18k in tax credits even possibly in some cases deliberately or it was allowed to go on, that after one stressfull call to tax credits you can switch off and just discretely repay it.

 

Something seems wrong there !!!!!!!!!

 

No fraud is okay and needs to be nipped in the bug pronto, but it would appear tax credit fraud is being treat with some feeling it deserves more sympathy?

 

Or could that be dependant on what your present situation is?

 

Sorry has to be said xx

 

Some benefit claimants fearing that the dwp will make a similar error again are deliberately not claiming what entitled to , to jsut avoid such threats when errors reoccur or appear, thats how bad the fear can be. To avoid similar fears tax credit claimants should simply reconsider what they are doing as I am sure they will have to stamp down on this soon as cases will appear in court comparing I am sure that one treatment is not considered any worse than anothers.

[CDJ755]

I am quite aware of the point you were making and I never at any point in my post said that I disagree with you. The rules on punishment for benefit fraud should be the same across all government bodies.

 

I just thought this site was here for the sole purpose to help, support and offer advice to distressed people - whatever the situation they find themsleves in, and most importantly without judgement.

 

I just found your post rather insensitive given the fact that by your own admission you have read alot of posts from people who are in a desperate situation with tax credits.

 

For someone who is in a fragile state anyway to read such opinions from yourself can tip some people over the edge. Some people have written that they are suicidal - I personally would want to offer sympathy, suppport and advice and nothing but.

 

I accept that your opinions are, in the main part, about the system in general but I still feel they are inappropriate and found some comments very judgemental at a time when so many people who are likely to read your comments are at a breaking point already.

[annie4567]

I hope I get this reply right! I think yes tax credit fraud is being highlighted more and more and yes there are more posts on the subject, this again proves they are clamping down. Like everyone knows the tax credit system is very poor, checks do not seem to be made, but I think that is all changing.

 

I am not disagreeing with what has been said, but I think for someone to read this thread it could be upsetting, and un-nerving, especially if they are dealing with a tax credit overpayment, be it large or small. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and to air their views But I always try not to judge people, not saying anyone is being judged via this thread, but I do feel people come on here and ask for advice, its the first step in sorting out the problem they are faced with (myself included).

[watchinginvestigation2011]

If I had started this debate on your thread, you would have a right to take it personally, but it is not personal and not against you.

 

When many cases of tax credit fraud appear on a help site it should not be too unexpected surely that a debate might appear as to why? and any discrepancies between treatment in type of beneift might appear also?

 

I have every sympathy for fellow human beings, that is why I have started this thread !!!!!

 

If anyone feels this thread is out of order, please click below this post on the triangle and the site team can take a look in, I personally dont think an issue noticed by more than just me is confrontational xx

[annie4567]

I dont think anyone is expecting sympathy, and I dont feel they come here for that reason, its for the support.

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Should everything be covered up with roses all the time just so you dont get upset, we can learn too by what we might not like and move on !!!!!!!

 

xx

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Give me an example where someone has not received the support?

 

My thread does not stop any support to anyone, neither should it or would it !!!!!!!!

 

I am not CAG just one little poster who gains support herself, who might not always like what i read, but hey we learn by it step by step.

[jadeybags]

Can I just say I agree that this place is for support, & 99% of the time it does what it says on the tin, But it can also be quite upsetting for people that have receieved letters saying they may have been committing benefit fraud & could be liable for prosecution, when their over payment is just over the 2k mark, they come on here & read threads where people have gone out their way to lie about child care & claimed 10/15/20k more than they should, & that person says oh it turned out fine, I just have to pay it back. It was all sorted over the phone, no IUC, one person was even told by tax credits that it's understandable people do things like that with the credit crunch at the moment.

That could be seen as insensitive too.

That's why I agree that it does need to be equalled out.

By the way, did anyone watch Saints & scroungers tonight?

The family of 9 that defrauded the council out of 160k!!? I am just watching it now on catch up.

168k in fact. They owned 4 houses amongst them worth 1.5 million.

A few of them got prison & only 2 got suspended sentences, the old man & a daughter. They even tried selling off cars & one house to another family member as they thought then their assets wouldn't get taken. But apparently that idea wont work for them.

Edited June 6, 2011 by jadeybags

[annie4567]

I havent read a thread on here where support hasnt been offered, I was just suggesting that a lot of posts I have read regarding fradulent issues, most are not asking for any kind of sympathy, it actually takes guts to come on here and admit wrong doing. And no everything should not be covered up with roses, when on a site like this, things will be read that are upsetting to some people, it is to be expected. Your post isnt offensive, you are clearly stating your thought and opinion, some will agree, some maybe disagree, and some beg to differ.

[annie4567]

Can I just say I agree that this place is for support, & 99% of the time it does what it says on the tin, But it can also be quite upsetting for people that have receieved letters saying they may have been committing benefit fraud & could be liable for prosecution, when their over payment is just over the 2k mark, they come on here & read threads where people have gone out their way to lie about child care & claimed 10/15/20k more than they should, & that person says oh it turned out fine, I just have to pay it back. It was all sorted over the phone, no IUC, one person was even told by tax credits that it's understandable people do things like that with the credit crunch at the moment.

That could be seen as insensitive too.

That's why I agree that it does need to be equalled out.

By the way, did anyone watch Saints & scroungers tonight?

The family of 9 that defrauded the council out of 160k!!? I am just watching it now on catch up.

 

Nope didnt see that, what channel was it on?

[Nystagmite]

Bbc 1

[jadeybags]

Yeh BBC1 7.30. I watch Corrie then so forget it's on usually, I was actually trying to find Embarrassing illnesses on catch up, but it wasn't up there yet, & then spotted Saints & Sinners.

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Yep I watched that show too, them desperately trying to flog a house for 25K to an aquaintance or family cant remember.

 

I dont mean to hurt anyone at all and am way to sensitive myself it seems or i know, but that does not mean subjects like this cannot be discussed when relevant. AT no point has anyone asking for help been refused by cag and the only threads that have been so, have been deliberatly trying to beat the system which cag has wisely picked up on.

 

I hope they change the system soon xx

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Hence I would never judge or give my own opinions on an individuals thread, that would be inapropriate xx

[A_wee_fella]

I agree the forum is for support, but a healthy debate of opinions on what fraud is is good too.

 

There are countless threads of people in a panic because HMRC has finally caught them, would they have volunteered the information themselves without being prompted? We will never know. However, a thread like this where opinions on fraud are discussed are worthwhile.

 

It is a public forum and you will inevitably find viewpoints which are the polar opposite of your own however that is not cause to stop.

[jadeybags]

I may be the only one that is wondering this at the moment, & it is no attack on anyone that's done this (by their own admission on here) but the amount of 'I claimed too much child care' threads shows that there is definitely a need to change how HMRC deal with Tax credits, the child care element in particular.

How come they haven't noticed the amount of over payments in this region yet?

If we have to state how much we earnt at the end of the tax year, looking at our p60's, why dont they ask the same of child care costs? Am curious about that.

[A_wee_fella]

The fact that there has been an influx of threads certainly indicates there is a crackdown underway with regards the childcare. The facility is now available to have costs checked before they are added. It appears to have been an easy way to steal public funding and HMRC must shoulder some of the blame for soft penalties and a poor system of checks. Better late than never perhaps...

 

Facility for front line advisors to send aspects of claims to be checked is most definitely in operation. I believe we have spoken in The past regarding HMRCs public paper on plans to tackle fraud and error. The have a joint prosecution initiative with the DWP which seems to imply a greater access to informations between departments so checks do seem to be on the increase, as this forum will testify.

[jadeybags]

But a fair few people are saying they claimed the extra for yeeeears. Is that less likely to be able to happen now then?

[A_wee_fella]

Most definitely, in my opinion of course.

[annie4567]

I agree..I think there is definitely a big crack down, on the childcare costs!

[Life-Goes-On]

It seems madness that the DWP & HMRC don't follow they same procedure.

The risk of prosecution will vary from whict dept a person thieved from.

[jadeybags]

It seems madness that the DWP & HMRC don't follow they same procedure.

The risk of prosecution will vary from whict dept a person thieved from.

 

Yep, it's actually quite baffling that someone that defrauds DWP out of 15k is warned by their solicitor that yes, prison is a possibility, as was my friend, even though his wasn't actually his doing & thankfully because of that the court case was halted on the morning of it! Yet someone can defraud tax credits of 15k & they are told they just need to pay it back. That divide needs to stop.

[Infoformums]

I'm wondering if the reson for being treated differently is DWP is for people that don't work, and so how can they repay overpaid money on an already means tested income. Their only income is benefits. HMRC is help towards people that work and so have other income that they should be able to repay?

 

Just a thought?

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Should make no difference as it is still a matter of right and wrong no matter how desperate a claimant is working or not or error or not!!!!!!!!!!

 

Sympathise can be shown for both sides, but it has to be said there appears to be more tax credits naughtiness going on than normal benefit issues wether fraud or not.

 

I say again with normal benefits even an error overlooked which okay like tax credits you need to inform of changes as we know we should, but the fact one fraudster to put it bluntly wether intent or error as looked apon by dwp is a court case or another as looked apon by HMRC as oh well just repay is not right.

 

To even the balance up they should either show same compassion to benefit cases or same resolve to prosecute re hmrc cases.

 

Either way desperate people do desperate things, but in either case it has to stop as resulting stress of months of what you see people hanging on can be intense reagarding benefit issue or a simple call and relaax in the chair re HMRC issue.

 

Cant have it both ways and I am only playing devils advocat there and wish no one ill xx

 

But yes nail on head, the benefit issues are treat it would seem as **** of earth whilst working as a higher class of fraud it would appear.

 

 

Got to admit I have a point.

 

Any one no matter what will get help on cag to do the right thing either way xx

 

I suspect akin to the determined benefit fraudsters there will be some cases who cottoned onto the possibility of defrauding or borrowing the supposed loan needed till found out due to its lax procedures, that does not mean it is okay to do it and therefore people should be aware they will only get tougher and future genuine errors may be treated akin to benefit errors where you are put in the stocks because of others actions. xx:madgrin:

 

Record all calls to HMRC and DWP to protect yourself as to when declaring something or change or reknewing, to prove you have done so, then you can fight back when errors have occured which may cause similar stresses but which were not intent xx

 

When you can show that recording, your worries soon go xx

Edited June 8, 2011 by watchinginvestigation2011

[Infoformums]

That's good advice, and I agree all should be treated the same, however I'm only suggesting the possibilites as to why they are treated differently, as clearly they are? But I'm in agreeance with you, we are all human, just different lives and circumstances xx