HELP ! Landlord / Letting Agent trying to claim unfairly against deposit

[blackmogu]

Hi all,

 

I ended my 2 year tenancy with a letting agent about 3 weeks ago, and eventually they got around to giving me a list of things that "the landlord is very unhappy about".

 

I will add that I had an inventory done when I checked out, and the inventory notes "Flat is in good condition" as a summary.

 

They are trying to claim for :-

 

a) 2 tea stains to the carpet (should be removed once a professional clean is done at my expense).

 

b) stand alone toilet roll holder is loose ( handyman to attend). There are two in the apartment. One was noted as loose in my original check-in. It is a 2 second job to tighten yourself, and I think that it should be fair wear-and-tear.

 

c) globed lamp missing - this is not even mentioned in my check-in inventory, but is mentioned in an older inventory document they are trying to claim is valid, that was done a year ago prior to me moving in !

 

d) bathroom light not working - the light actually works, it's the dimmer module in the ceiling behind the plasterboard that has ceased to work. Can they say it's my responsibility to fix this ? Surely it's wear and tear and betterment if I replace this item. There are 6 dimmer lights in the bathroom, only this one has a problem.

 

e) 1 cracked tile on balcony - this was actually missed in the inventory when I moved in. When I asked for a signed copy of the

inventory from the letting agent, they replied:- "that they don't have a copy of the inventory that I signed when I moved in.The TDS consider the third party professional report as an unbiased picture of the condition of the flat at move in."

 

It is in my tenancy agreement that a copy of the inventory should have been given to me within 7 days of moving in, which they admitted they have not done, citing that the old inventory left behind by the previous tenant is good enough !

 

f) loose handles in the kitchen drawers - this was picked up on one of the drawers in the inventory when I moved in. Frankly it's a 2 second job with a screwdriver to fix them - they are simple handles. Can they charge a whopping fee for a handyman to do this ??

 

They want me to pay to french polish a TV cabinet that had damage on it when we moved in. It's not even mentioned in my inventory.

 

Finally, they want me to pay to rewire the landlords audio equipment, which wasn't tested in the initial inventory, and wasn't specified as working or not. The equipment works, but I didn't wire it up when I left, as I just used my own equipment. Can they oblige me to pay someone to wire this up ??

 

PLEASE HELP ! I cannot afford to lose my deposit (over £3000 !). I'd very much appreciate any help anyone can give as to what I ought to do.

[raydetinu]

Did you have an invetory/condition report done when you moved in?

Where these items on the list you signed with the ageny/LL when you moved out?

if the answer is no then they have no evidence as to what they are claiming for and should return all your deposit.

Was the deposit prtected? and do you know who with?

Ask for return of deposit from them or raise a dispute with them, they can hold an amount to cover disputed items but must return the rest within 14 days.

If LL does not comply then you can take him yo court.

If deposit not prtected then you can sue for return + 3x dedposit. This usually spurs them into action.

[Ed999]

My advice is applicable only if the rented premises are entirely within England and Wales, and only if you were granted a shorthold tenancy (under which you [and your spouse/partner/children if any] had exclusive use of at least a bedroom, a kitchen and a bathroom, none of which were shared with another tenant nor with the landlord) and you were over 18 years of age when the tenancy was granted.

 

 

Read this FAQ - Disrepairs in privately rented accommodation

 

 

As you paid a deposit, please read the FAQs about the tenancy deposit scheme, under which you might be entitled to sue for compensation if you had a shorthold tenancy -

 

- Tenancy Deposit Scheme

 

- Tenancy Deposit Protection - First High Court Decision

 

- TDS eligibility, implication of breach and legal questions answered

 

 

Also read the FAQ about what deductions the landlord can lawfully make from the deposit -

 

- Unfair deposit deductions

 

 

 

Note to original poster: Please understand that only the court can decide the outcome of each individual item of alleged disrepair. All we can do is summarise some matters which you might usefully invite the court to take into account.

[blackmogu]

Did you have an invetory/condition report done when you moved in?

Where these items on the list you signed with the ageny/LL when you moved out?

if the answer is no then they have no evidence as to what they are claiming for and should return all your deposit.

Was the deposit prtected? and do you know who with?

Ask for return of deposit from them or raise a dispute with them, they can hold an amount to cover disputed items but must return the rest within 14 days.

If LL does not comply then you can take him yo court.

If deposit not prtected then you can sue for return + 3x dedposit. This usually spurs them into action.

 

1. I did have an inventory done when I moved in, but the problem is that is not complete - it references an old inventory for many items / conditions. e.g: 32. Table (As per old inventory).

2. The letting agents never sent me a copy of the check-in inventory so that I could check it's accuracy when my tenancy started. When I asked for it, they said that "We will find evidence that we sent it to you via email, that is enough." Now, I know that I never got emailled anything !! Is this level of evidence truly enough ?

3. They don't have a signed copy of the inventory report - is this significant ? The check-in report that they have shown me clearly has an area for Landlord and Tenant signatures, but both are empty.

4. Deposit is protected - I have a DPS number.

5. All the bits that they are claiming for are noted in the check-out inventory. My problem is that they were present in the check-in to varying degrees.

6. It has been over 14 days since I moved out, and I am still waiting for anything (no invoices/quotes as yet!) except ping-pong emails from the letting agent and myself arguing over this missing signed inventory and betterment etc.

 

On a side note, the landlord wants me to pay for someone to come in and wire up his stereo/tv/sky equipment that was in the flat before.

Now, when I moved in, the working condition of this equipment was not checked. It never worked, and I just put it in the cupboard for 2 years and used my tv/stereo equipment. Can he require me to wire up his stuff that was never working before, and they have admitted that it is not checked ? What the letting agent says is that "It is accepted that all electrical items are assumed working by the TDS". Surely this cannot be the case ??

 

Also, on the TV table, there are a few light scratches and discoloration. He wants me to pay for a french polisher to fix it - is this an acceptable level of repair ? The table is nothing special, and is more than 6 years old.

 

Thanks for all your assistance !

[Ed999]

Unfortunately, the type of questions you are asking all boil down to 'Can I win my claim?' This is a question that only the Court which hears the case can decide.

 

The Court will take into account the evidence which is given at a hearing by you and by, or on behalf of, the landlord. This evidence will only emerge by cross-questioning of the witnesses.

 

The outcome of a Court case is never certain.

 

 

As you lack key documents at this stage, the possible outcome in Court is even more problematic than usual. Beware, though, of accepting at face value any self-serving statements made on behalf of the landlord, particularly those which are unsupported by any documentary evidence.

 

Where the landlord alleges facts, such as the existence of particular documents or events, it is for him to prove them. All that is needed from you, prior to the hearing, is a clear denial of such self-serving or unsupported points as he makes. In a claim over disrepair, he who alleges the disrepair is the one who must prove it.

 

 

Perhaps an example might clarify my meaning? Where you mention that the inventory is unsigned, the evidence which emerges at a court hearing might indicate that it was unsigned as a mere oversight. Conversely, it might emerge that it is a document which you never saw - and which even the landlord never saw! Then again, it might emerge that the document was queried for some reason, and the objection was never resolved. Each of these different situations might result in a different outcome to the case.

 

We can perhaps assist you in regard to points of law. But once you get down to matters of fact and of evidence, there is little we can do to assist.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Ed999

[blackmogu]

Things have taken a turn for the worse !!

 

It has been 21 days since my tenancy ended. So far, the landlord has done the following work without showing any quotations or receipts :-

 

1. Professional clean (£230+VAT)

2. Handy man to tighten drawer handles (£168+VAT, materials £10+VAT)

3. Cracked balcony tile (£50 compensation requested)

4. TV Cabinet - French polishing to remove discoloration (£180+VAT)

 

and the king of them all, the HIFI system !! - they think there is a piece missing, although all is there according to the inventory. They want to charge me to hire a professional A/V person to connect it up so it is working. The landlord says it cost him £2000 (it is a crappy old thing from the 90's with a standalone seperate CD player !!), and he is witholding my entire deposit of £3000 because of this.

 

Now my main points here are :-

1. The working condition of the stereo was never stated nor checked in the check-in. In fact we used our own equipment for the entire 2 years of tenancy ! We could never get it to work (though everything turns on and powers up).

 

Please can someone assist on how I should present my arguments to the letting agent / landlord ?? This is grossly unfair.

 

BTW, the landlord and letting agent are doing nothing until next month when the landlord comes back from holiday (doubtless using my deposit money !).

 

Please Help !!

[Ed999]

Do read the FAQs about the tenancy deposit scheme, under which you might be entitled to sue for compensation if you had a shorthold tenancy -

 

- Tenancy Deposit Scheme

 

- TDS eligibility, implication of breach and legal questions answered

 

 

The case of Tiensia v Vision Enterprises means that if the Landlord protects or repays the deposit even as late as the day of the court hearing, or at any time before judgement (if later), the court will not be able to award you the penalty of three times the amount of the deposit.

 

That may be overturned by the High Court decision in Potts v Densley, when the long overdue reserved judgement in that case is finally given.

 

However, the effect can be to force the landlord to return the entire deposit to you, without any deductions, thus resolving the dispute over disrepair; though the landlord could put the deposit into a TDS scheme instead, and continue to argue for deductions for disrepair.

 

The Act expressly states that the parties to the tenancy cannot agree not to protect the deposit. So it's futile for the landlord to raise this defence - but many still try to!

 

 

Also read the FAQ about what deductions the landlord can lawfully make from the deposit -

 

- Unfair deposit deductions

 

 

 

A letter before action is not necessary, and might harm your case. A claim started without sending a letter before action is still a valid claim.

 

Solicitors typically send a letter before action in order to be entitled to add their fee to the claim, as legal costs might otherwise be refused by the Court if the Defendant pays up in full within 14 days of being served with the summons - even though none ever do.

 

 

A letter before action [LBA] can harm your claim because -

 

a. In an urgent case, sending an LBA will delay the commencement of proceedings for a fortnight, while you are waiting uselessly for a payment that will never arrive.

 

b. A badly drafted LBA will actually damage your claim, in that:

 

1. If it states your claim imprecisely - which many inexperienced litigants do - it can give ammunition to the Defendant, by enabling him to raise a series of futile but time-wasting points seeking clarification of the discrepancies between the LBA and the particulars of claim endorsed on the claim form.

 

2. Unless it is repeated word for word in the claim form, it can potentially restrict your claim in court. Both the Defendant and the Court can become genuinely confused as to what the basis of your claim is.

 

 

A badly prepared letter before action, instead of simply setting out the claim, seeks to present a defence [or, worse, evidence!] to matters the Defendant has not raised in the case - which he can't have raised, because the case has not yet started! - and which in Court he might not raise at all! The proposed LBA will read like a defence or counterclaim, which is very bad tactics.

 

The Judge is NOT on your side. It is NOT his job to re-write your claim for you, or to make good its deficiencies; he must remain neutral, so must not seek to improve your case for you - that is the function of your Solicitor.

 

 

This is what you could say -

 

Dear Sir,

 

Premises at _______________________

 

With regard to my tenancy, I require you to refund to me the full rent deposit which I paid, in the sum of £_____.

 

Further, I require you to pay to me, in addition, three times the amount of the deposit, as a penalty for your failure to properly protect my deposit under the Tenancy Deposit Scheme.

 

Further, I require you to refund my overpayment of rent, in respect of the period from ________ (the date of the re-letting of the premises) to _________ (___ days at £___ per calendar month), totalling £_____.

 

If I have not received the total amount of £_____ within fourteen days from the date of this letter I will commence a claim in the County Court for that amount without further notice to you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

You will of course ONLY include in the letter those paragraphs of the above draft that are actually relevent in your situation.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Ed999

[Mollierose8]

Would love to know how this is panning out.

[blackmogu]

** SUCCESS **

 

Well folks, the Dispute Service took from 6th May until today to process my claim, so be prepared for a long wait if you ever go this route. It's amazing how people expect you to find these deposits when you move flat, if the last one is held in dispute !

Anyways, everything started to look up, when a person from the Dispute Service emailled me asking for my bank details. So they gave me an inkling that something out of the £3000 deposit was coming back to me. In the end, I was paid the full amount !

 

I had expected to pay for a few things, since I admitted that they were my fault and I was liable (cracked wall mirror when moving), but perhaps due to the vexatious nature of the landlords attempts to grasp my money, they paid the whole lot to me !

The estate agents involved were less than helpful. I would rather walk through a marsh than deal with them again, but then again who ever has anything nice to say about a letting agent ?

 

I am pleased to report that The Dispute Service system appears to work.

 

--blackmogu.

[raydetinu]

great news, well done.

makes a change to get some good news.

[Ed999]

This is excellent news.

 

Did they give any reasons as to why they found in your favour? Such details might be very helpful to someone posting on this forum with a similar problem in the future.

[blackmogu]

Reasons given were:

 

1. Grossly inflated charges for the work supposedly carried out.

2. No receipts of work submitted by landlord. (repairs to doors, tightening of handles)

3. No mention of condition of item(s) in initial inventory. (table that was french polished, stereo claim)

4. No opportunity given to tenant to "put-right" despite tenants offer.

5. No multiple quotes sought for work supposedly undertaken.

6. Some items claimed for fell under maintenance, tenant not liable (e.g light transformer)

 

Basically, I got my money back because of the inventory. They put a huge emphasis on the inventory mentioning not only the item(s) in the house, but also quite specifically their condition.

 

The sad thing is we left the guys flat in great condition - he even came around before we left and was happy with it. The whole thing felt very premeditated on his part.

 

Anyways, hooray for the Dispute Service !

[shelly67]

Reasons given were:

 

1. Grossly inflated charges for the work supposedly carried out.

2. No receipts of work submitted by landlord. (repairs to doors, tightening of handles)

3. No mention of condition of item(s) in initial inventory. (table that was french polished, stereo claim)

4. No opportunity given to tenant to "put-right" despite tenants offer.

5. No multiple quotes sought for work supposedly undertaken.

6. Some items claimed for fell under maintenance, tenant not liable (e.g light transformer)

 

Basically, I got my money back because of the inventory. They put a huge emphasis on the inventory mentioning not only the item(s) in the house, but also quite specifically their condition.

 

The sad thing is we left the guys flat in great condition - he even came around before we left and was happy with it. The whole thing felt very premeditated on his part.

 

Anyways, hooray for the Dispute Service !

 

Well done,its great to hear success stories!

we didnt have to go through the Adr as we quoted all the breaches contract etc and had witness statements from previous tenants to us stating that the LL tried to keep their deposit for the same things.

Our deposit is £650 which is a lot of money to us.

Im really pleased for you,so we both are happy bunnies!