Renting from father with no agreement

[Bugjd44]

Hi, 

I apologise if ive sent this to the wrong place. 

I would like some advise and opinions please, 

I have been living in my Fathers house since birth, he left 4 years ago and moved away with his partner, ever since he has been asking me for monthly payments for living there.

There has not been an agreement put in place, however many times i have asked for one.

There has been a bit on manipulation involved by him and his partner, ive received many abusive text messages demanding more and more money. They have unfortunately taken most of my savings, so i am unable to pack up and leave the house, however if i dont pay him he will cause a lot of problems for me.

moving forward where do i stand? and what would you suggest i do ? 

many thanks 

[AndyOrch]

Topic moved to Residential and Commercial lettings/Freehold issues forum.

 

Have you paid anything in rent during the 4 years?  who has paid the council tax /water/ energy bills and upkeep ofthe property?

 

Andy

[stu007]

Hi

 

Sorry for your situation.

 

1. Does your Father own the Property outright or is it Mortgaged? (if it is Motrgaged then your Father renting the property to you they would more than likely have needed to get permission from the Mortgage provider)

 

2. Do you have evidence of these payment to your Father? (i.e. bank statements etc.)

 

3. Do you have evidence of the agreement made for these Payments? ( i.e. Texts, emails recorded calls)

 

4. What type of property is it and what rent amount is being asked by your Father?

 

5. Who pays the Council Tax for the Property?

 

6. Who pays for any repairs required to the property?

 

7. Have you checked the Land Registry to see who owns the Property (bear in mind there is a cost to do this search so be aware of that)

/assets/static/govuk-opengraph-image-dade2dad5775023b0568381c4c074b86318194edb36d3d68df721eea7deeac4b.png

HM Land Registry - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

---

We register the ownership of land and property in England and Wales. HM Land Registry is a non-ministerial department.

 

I know you may be attached to the property but IMO you need to have a good look at the different Housing Association/Trusts in your area and fill in there application for Housing this way it get you on the Housing List (due to the games your Father is playing) and if you move it is important to keep all of them updated with a new address. 

[Bugjd44]

Hi, 

 

My Dad has an Marstons Recovery call today, didnt answer. They have left a letter. 

Debt is council tax,£1603.50 incl their fees.

He didnt realise his direct debit stopped in May last year. 

Is there any way he can pay this amount back in installments, obsviously the debt collectors have refused this offer. 

 

many thanks 

[dx100uk]

they are not debt collectors, they are bailiffs....big big difference.

 

has he been ignoring all his mail, as he should of gotten several letters from the cpuncil about this and also a court letter stating the council are going for a liability order?

 

i suggest he contacts the council soonest and plead the allow a payment plan, he will be liable for a £75 notice of enforcement free from said entitled letter today?

 

is this for his current property or an old one.. im a bit puzzled as to how this has gone on since the new ctax year in april 2022 and he has not paid a penny but received nowt?

 

dx

 

[Bugjd44]

Yes there unfortunately hasn't been much regard to opening letters on time. 

 

So the best option is to call the council tomorrow and see if he can make a payment arrangement ?

 

many thanks 

[dx100uk]

that might be a hard nut to crack

the council are not obliged to do so and can quite legally bum him off to the bailiffs and that wont go well.

he needs to plead to the head of the CTAX dept...seriously.

are there any extenuating circs? that might have contributed to his actions, and i expect? he has a pile of DCA action on consumer credit debts too? (ignore them powerless totally!!) 

 

just to ensure you are informed. 

BAILIFFS on CTAX debt have no right of forced entry , to all intent and purpose they can simply be ignored, the MAX they can increase the debt is £75 @Notice of enforcement letter stage (has he got that letter...what date on it?) and £235 if they visit. their total fees are capped at £310, no matter how many times they turn up.

NEVER EVER EVER let them in PERIOD!! . never ever agree to a visit to view goods and/or to sign any arrangement to pay crap. its NOT NEEDED.

 

if he is lucky to get council to accept payments, then it either +£75 or +£310 to the liability order sum 

pers i'd be opening every letter now,

 

if you want help on other stuff 

shout and we'll help you.

 

dx

 

[Bugjd44]

Hi, The council have refused to set up a payment plan as well as the bailiffs. Is there any other options for us?

We had a look online and heard something about Form N245 to suspend a warrant, is this revelant for this situation. 

many thanks 

[dx100uk]

sadly you cant use N245 on a magistrates Liability order, those are only for county court Civil consumer debts.

 

have you rung marstons directly not the bailiff to try and set up a reasonable arrangement 

 

has he a car in his name?

 

dx

 

 

[Bugjd44]

We tried to call the bailiff. I will suggest to him to call marstons tomorrow to see if we can set up a plan. 
he does have a car, however it’s at his partners in another city, not at the property. 

[dx100uk]

 

 

[Bugjd44]

Hi, 

I would appreciate a bit of advice please. 
 

over the last 3 years I have been “renting” a house off my Father. He’s been emotionally abusing me and trying to get more and more money off me. 

I’ve been paying him a fixed amount each month plus extra. 

It’s really getting to my mental health, I wish to leave the house, however he’s taking all my money.

 

He’s now threatening to sell the house and only give me 7 days to leave.

 

I have had no tenancy agreement, all payments was made via bank transfer which I labelled as “rent”.

 

He doesn’t live at the address, but at his parents. 

Am I entitled to proper notice ? 

thank you 

[dx100uk]

old and new threads merged please answer the questions asked in post 3 one month ago

 

dx

 

[Bugjd44]

He owns the property and is currently paying a mortgage which has a year or so left. 

I have proof from my online banking of the money I’ve been paying each month. £500 plus each month. 

He is “paying” the council tax.

 

The amount I pay is meant to cover that for him to pay however he hasn’t actually been making the payments towards it which lead to the bailiffs coming round but I guess that’s a different earlier story all together.

 

i pay for any maintain for the property, also appliance. 

I’ve not had any formal agreement, even though I have asked many times. 
my main concern is that he’s threatening to kick me out, when I’ve been making payments. And with only 7 days notice. 
 

many thanks 

[BazzaS]

Does he live in the property (when you could be classed as a lodger, and you don’t have security of tenancy - where he is able to just ask you to leave).

 

if he doesn’t live in the property you can be deemed to have tenancy rights, and he can’t just ask you to leave : it would be both a civil wrong (a ‘tort’) but also a criminal offence to just evict you, as he’d need to get a court order for possession of the property before evicting you.

[Bugjd44]

No he doesn’t live at the property. He lives with his partner, however I’m not sure if he is registered to that address

[stu007]

Hi

 

You really need to answer question that are asked as they are relevant to this matter.

 

The Liability Order for Council Tax:

 

1. I assume that is for the property that you are presently living in? please correct me if I am wrong

 

2. As the Liability Order is for Council Tax in your Father Name for the Property you are living in have you checked with the Council yourself that you are not liable to pay Council Tax and have that in writing from the Council. (note it is your legal responsibility to check with the Council as to whether you pay Council tax or a reduced amount etc.)

 

3. As has been stated by other Marstons are Bailiffs not a DCA and you or more specifically your Father who has the Liability Order needs to act on this before it escalates to the next stage with further costs added.

 

Mortgage on the Property:

 

1. Are you 100% sure your Father is completely up to date with the Mortgage Repayments for the Property?

 

2. Has your Father made the Mortgage Provider aware that he is Renting the Property to yourself? (note there is more than likely a clause in his Mortgage Agreement that he needs to inform/ask permission for this from the Mortgage Provider)

 

Property Renting itself:

 

1. Is your Father aware that as you have evidence of paying Rent that he has actually become a Landlord and as such has certain legal responsibilities (although no agreement is signed) and one of those responsibilities is to notify the Councils Private Renting Dept that they are a Landlord for that Property as it is a requirement with most Councils now and that is just one responsibility there are many.

 

2. Even with no agreement in place and you have evidence of your Rent Payment if your Father wants the property back he would have to go through the Eviction process and give you the proper notices.

 

/assets/static/govuk-opengraph-image-dade2dad5775023b0568381c4c074b86318194edb36d3d68df721eea7deeac4b.png

Private renting for tenants: evictions: Rules your landlord must follow - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

---

Landlords need to follow certain procedures when evicting tenants - find out about eviction notices, harassment and illegal evictions, and going to court

 

As I have previously stated you need to look into the different Housing Associations/Trusts in your area and fill in there Housing Application Forms as least this was it gets you on there Housing Lists.

 

[Bugjd44]

In terms of the council tax issues with him I’m not too concerned as it’s his issue. 
with all my bills I am up to date. 
im not entirely sure if he’s up to date with mortgage payments.

currently he’s threatening to sell the house cheap in 7 days and I’ll have to leave. I explained that he needs to give me reasonable notice and he responds by swearing ect. 
mid he was to sell the house in “7 days” what can I do? Just continue living at the property until he decides to give me proper notice? 

If he sells the house, the purchaser inherits you as a tenant.

He may find that that makes it less easy for him to sell the house, but, then again, that is his problem, (If you are the tenant, if he hasnt paid council tax, then that may be a problem for you, as it may become 'your issue' rather than 'his issue').

what’s the minimum notice he should give for me to leave the property ? 

[BazzaS]

How often is your rent due?

bear in mind he needs to formally serve you notice (under a S.8 or S.21 notice), and even then can only evict you with a court order (if you choose not to leave).

 

Did you pay a deposit, and if so has it been protected in a Tenancy Deposit Protection scheme (TDP)?

Edited February 13, 2023 by BazzaS

[Bugjd44]

I didn’t pay a deposits 

 

i make payments monthly to him 

[BazzaS]

At least 2 months from receiving a correctly completed S21 notice to quit.

 

Even then, if you choose to stay past that date he can’t evict you (at least, not lawfully!)  without a court order if you want to stay.

 

Then again, from what you describe, how long do you want to stay?

[Bugjd44]

I would ideally like to stay a few months, if he does sell as I will need to save for a deposit elsewhere and find somewhere else too. 

[stu007]

Hi

 

I have to agree with BazzaS.

 

Now with the Council Tax side you say that you are not worried as it's your Fathers issue.

 

I would be worried about the Council Tax I am afraid irrespective that the Liability Order for the Council Tax is in your Father name only.

 

As I have previously mentioned have you contacted the Council Tax to check that you are not liable for any Council Tax??? (it is you legal responsibility to check with the Council if you are liable for Council Tax)

 

How can you be sure that your Father has not told the Council Tax that he is living at the property only.

 

I would also be concerned that if your Father hasn't paid the Council Tax how are you sure he is up to date with any Mortgage Payment for the Property. (could be the reason he is suddenly wanting to sell the property)

 

 

 

 

[Bugjd44]

I have been living in my Fathers house for 4 years, I have been paying him money every month. He has not lived at the property during these 4 years, he has been staying with his girlfriend in another town. 
 

I asked many times for a tenancy agreement but he always refused. He has been quite abusive and manipulative over the years.

Today he comes to the property without telling me and gets inside and refuses to let me in. I had to call the police as all my possessions were inside. The police eventually come and tell me I have to leave as per his request. I take half of my belongings and will return for other half at a later date. 
 

The police were standing laughing and joking whilst I was collecting my belongings and being made homeless. 
 

I have been made homeless with 6 hours notice. What rights do I have? 
 

thank you 

[dx100uk]

old and new threads merged yet again

 

dx