#bailiffs : summons for non payment of council Tax

[mandyjay]

Today I got a letter saying summons for non payment of council Tax. saying I have to attend court on 28th April for the sum of £43.70 then saying I have to pay costs of £62.50.

Im a disabled mother with 3 children 2 of which live at home one of them has M.E so is classed disabled aswell.

I had my ESA stopped march 2011 I have re-applyed for ESA and currently waiting for reply. Iv had no money apart from my family tax crdeit to live on since then. There saying I owe council Tax from

01/04/2010 to 31/03/2011 but I don't understand this.

 

My oldest son turned 18 on 06/06/2010 so surely he should start paying from then onwards but not before but from the dates above they have started charging from the April 2010. He moved out in January 2011 because he didn't want to pay it , I told them he no longer lived with me straight away but continued to get letters saying I owed them this money..

Now I know the dept is from when my son did live with me but i thought the dept would go with him Is this not the case?

Because the house we rent is in my name is the dept mine not my sons?

Im so confused and worried....

If you need more info please ask.

 

Thanks Mandy...

[denzil69]

Hi Mandy,

 

First things first... try not to worry.

 

Councils normally have an agreement with the local court, to set aside a full day, to deal with all the arrears cases that are on the council's books, for any outstanding amounts.

 

Contact your council, inform them all that you have posted here. 9 times out of 10 they will make/set up an arrangement whilst they look into your individual concerns or visa versa.

IMPORTANT - if the council insist you pay their court charges anyway or want them adding to your overall bill, object to them immediately.

 

Council's often make profit (yes profits) from these routine council tax summons - heres how I avoided paying them for a friend two years ago.

I rang the court myself and asked what the court costs would be, if I was to bring a small claims case against another party for the amount that was said to be owed on my friends council tax - if memory serves me, it was around £250 of arrears.

The court person informed me it would be approx £50 in costs.

 

The council summons was claiming the arrears PLUS £80 for costs.

Now i dont know if this is common place in all council tax arrears cases, but in our local court, on the day they have a council worker who sits outside the court and greets people who are to appear. Prior to going into the court they attempt to put in place an arrangement for the arrears plus the costs the council send out in their letter.

If both parties come to an agreement, the council's worker notifies the council officer who is speaking before the judge.

When the council officer comes to the case in question, they make it known to the judge that an agreement has been put in place, saying the person admits they owe the arrears (liability), how much the total claim is for and its put through and they move onto the next case.

 

Armed with this knowledge, I rang the council prior to the court hearing, questioning why the council were claiming £80 costs when the same amount as the arrears outstanding, put through as a small claim, would result in significantly less in costs.

I suggested that maybe it would be better for me to attend the court and argue the costs before the judge, as I know that the actual court charge is less than the council were claiming and I know that the council use an ordinary council officer to represent the council in court - ie, no solicitor - who would be working for the council on a normal days work anyway (he wasn't drafted in specially for my friend's case).

I suggested that I would be generous and allow 10 minutes for the council worker to read out details of this particular case, that council worker would not be paid the extra £30 the council were claiming in costs.

The onus is on the council to prove that the costs they are claiming off any individual case, are genuine. If they cannot do this or they are simply not warranted, then the judge will rightly refuse them.

 

As if by magic, not only did the council set up a payment arrangement, but also wiped off all court costs associated with the council tax account claim.

 

Give the council tax office a ring as soon as possible, I am sure they will come to an arrangement, but more importantly, don't let them try it on regarding adding court costs to your council tax account.

Council's don't realise it, but when they make any claim for council tax arrears, they stipulate a set amount on the judgement, i.e. they claim £100 which is for example £60 arrears plus £40 costs - if any individual questions the costs, its viewed as a partial defence and costs are often not granted.

 

Apologies for the long winded reply, good luck.

[mandyjay]

Thanks for replying is the dept now my responsibilty or my son's who moved out in january because we were being charged just because he had turned 18 before then i was getting full bebefit. He moved out so I just thought the dept would go with him...

[denzil69]

I'd say the liability is yours as its your name on the property/rent.

 

You may have a case for a single person discount not being applied once your son hit 18, then needs to be reapplied for once he moves out, in effect you have returned to a single occupancy.

Did you reapply/sign forms/fill out application once he had moved out?

 

I'm sure the council officers will talk you through it.

[RaeUK]

Hi mandyjay, I am as confused as you are!

Firstly, your ESA. There is a very good benefits forum on CAG, in case you haven't found it here is a link: Benefits Forum

IF your ESA was stopped due to an ATOSH Null Pointer 'medical' all you have to do is appeal and your ESA continues at the assessment rate. You shouldn't be left without it. Do post on the benefits forum and see if we can help there...

Secondly, Council Tax applies to the property not the individual - as far as I'm aware - although there may be individual concessions under certain circumstances. I would have thought you qualified for full Council Tax benefits. I think you definately need to try and clarify things with the council in the first instance ...

Rae

[brassnecked]

Hi mandyjay, I am as confused as you are!

Firstly, your ESA. There is a very good benefits forum on CAG, in case you haven't found it here is a link: Benefits Forum

IF your ESA was stopped due to an ATOSH Null Pointer 'medical' all you have to do is appeal and your ESA continues at the assessment rate. You shouldn't be left without it. Do post on the benefits forum and see if we can help there...

Secondly, Council Tax applies to the property not the individual - as far as I'm aware - although there may be individual concessions under certain circumstances. I would have thought you qualified for full Council Tax benefits. I think you definately need to try and clarify things with the council in the first instance ...

Rae

 

I think they are trying to obtain a LO for what they deem an overpayment for the time the son was living there as a "Non Dependent Relation", and the fees are greater than the debt:x

question for mandyjay, was your son working or signing on? if he was signing on for JSA or benefits there should be no deduction from YOUR CTax benefit.

 

You should as Rae suggests check out and post on the benefits forum, and you should appeal any stop of ESA to ensure continuity.

 

You should inform the council that you are still classed as vulnerable as even if you moved to JSA, you would still qualify under the National Association of Enforcement Agency 2002 guidelines.

I would intimate that you were going to progress this by a letter to Head of Revenues, Council CEO, Council Leader, Councillor and MP, that as you fear that this will end up with bailiffs and make your problems worse, by turning £43.70 into £400 plus with visits from aggressive bailiffs that would do your health a whole lot of no good.

 

Others will know more but I hate Councils and bailiffs when they pile pressure on vulnerable and disabled people and families

Edited April 16, 2011 by brassnecked

[outlawla]

.......Council's often make profit (yes profits) from these routine council tax summons - heres how I avoided paying them for a friend two years ago.

I rang the court myself and asked what the court costs would be, if I was to bring a small claims case against another party for the amount that was said to be owed on my friends council tax - if memory serves me, it was around £250 of arrears.

The court person informed me it would be approx £50 in costs.

 

The council summons was claiming the arrears PLUS £80 for costs.

Now i dont know if this is common place in all council tax arrears cases, but in our local court, on the day they have a council worker .....

 

I find your post interesting and goes along with my understanding of the council's profiteering from the court system. I'm pretty sure that my council (North East Lincolnshire) deal with around 700 cases per month in this way i.e in a very dodgy bulk liability hearing. However, it seems to be common knowledge (I have not been able to get the magistrate's court to admit) that they pay only £3 to the court per alleged debtor involved. If this is the true amount of expense to the council for taking each individual resident to court over council tax then your point about unwarranted costs would be exaggerated still further. This suggests that we are being mugged by Courts and Town Halls en mass and this subject should be looked into further especially in the light that Summonses appear to be a sham and sent out by councils rather than the courts.

 

Maybe it would be interesting for readers if you started a new thread containing the details of your post?

[seanamarts]

Mandy, please contact your local councillor, you can find them on your councils website. they do have a lot of clout and will get to the bottom of this for you.

[denzil69]

Councils making profits from council tax recovery has been going on for years.

I have also heard about the minimal charge to councils by the court, but as you say, proving it exists is another matter.

 

The main issue with it, is to catch it before it comes before the court, council's know many people ignore the original arrears, so before they can do anything it's passed through the court system with costs added.

 

Feel free to move my post or quote it in another thread, yet another example of people being penalised for not knowing their rights/the law.

[RaeUK]

I think they are trying to obtain a LO for what they deem an overpayment for the time the son was living there as a "Non Dependent Relation" ...

 

Ah, gotcha. Thanks brassnecked ...

[brassnecked]

Ah, gotcha. Thanks brassnecked ...

 

You're welcome Rae I have seen similar to this myself, where they know benefits are in payment but quite often progress it through a liability order and bailiffs, instead of attachment, could there be a profit/extra revenue in it for them as per denzil69 and outlawa's posts where they inflate the fees for obtaining the LO? if so this is an area for a supercomplaint, as this is a coach and horses through the guidelines.