Is this CCA legal (Paragon Finance)

[eoghan]

Paragon_CCA.pdfHi,

 

Was wondering if anyone could take a look at the attached CCA to see if it is legal, I've had this loan for three years now and it's crippling me...

Paragon_CCA.pdf

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

Best.

Eoghan

Paragon_TsandCs.pdf

Edited April 14, 2011 by eoghan

[42man]

The agreement looks ok to me, but I am not an expert...hopefully somebody else will give an opinion...25 year loan, may I ask how old you will be at the end of the loan term ?

[eoghan]

The agreement looks ok to me, but I am not an expert...hopefully somebody else will give an opinion...25 year loan, may I ask how old you will be at the end of the loan term ?

 

Thanks for stopping by and having a look - I'll be 50... why do you ask?

[eoghan]

Just been reading through the Wilson vs First County Trust here:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200203/ldjudgmt/jd030710/will-1.htm

 

It makes me think that maybe this loan is unenforcable because the charge was added to loan amount and then interest was calculated which would mean the amount of Credit is misstated... any comments?

[42man]

Well there could have been a question mark about them selling you that term of loan if the end of the loan was over your retirement age....I'd also check those interest rate figures too, but I imagine they are within the tolerances allowed.

 

Are there any excessive charges at all ?

[eoghan]

I'd say a charge of 70k for a 40k loan was an ecessive charge, just realised I'll have paid back a total of 112k by the end of this loan... what a nightmare.

There's been a couple of late payment letter charges with a grand total of £100.00 of which £30 has been refunded...

[eoghan]

Just looking at th Tc&Cs

Conditions of Charge 8.1 states:

We will pay the introducer fee and lending administration fee (if any) shown overleaf on your behalf and the sum paid will be added to your loan. That means you will have to pay interest on it throughout the whole term of the loan etc etc...

[postggj]

it states that this payment to the broker is payable at the end of the loan

so why have they paid it and front loaded it onto the agreement so you are shafted with extra interest, it should state

 

59 payments @ £376.46 and

1 payment of £1495

 

making up the 60 month payment schedule

 

also

 

did you receive a cheque for £42500 or a cheque minus £1495

 

i would also be asking for a copy of the credit brokerage contract

[eoghan]

So what do you reckon, go back and state they haven't complied with the SAR as all of the doucmentation relating to this account has not been passed on, no copy of the cheque that was issued nor a copy of the credit brokerage contract, no record of letters or telephone conversations...

[postggj]

if you have sent an sar and they have not responded in full then send them a template ill post up

 

HOW MUCH WAS THE CHEQUE YOU RECEIVED

[postggj]

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account: xxxxxxxx

 

I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated (Insert Date). The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that at least the following documents are missing.

 

(Adapt this next section to your situation)

 

1) You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges.(Add details of missing period - or a transaction that you know about which is not included)

2) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to any legal action between you and myself.

3) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention.

 

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing.

 

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

The time for compliance with my request has now expired. If you do not comply fully with my Subject Access Request within 7 days, I shall apply to the County Court for an order to enforce compliance, together with damages at the discretion of the court.

 

Yours faithfully,

[eoghan]

if you have sent an sar and they have not responded in full then send them a template ill post up

 

HOW MUCH WAS THE CHEQUE YOU RECEIVED

 

Didn't receive a cheque, I had consolidated a lot of loans and theynissued cheques in the name of the other lenders... I never checked at the time to see if they had actually paid the full 42500 across all lenders and any balance remaining paid to me... What do you reckon?

 

Great letter by the way... I'll adapt and get that posted off tomorrow.

[postggj]

Well you need to find out

 

1/ was the loan £42500 or

2/ £41005 thats £42500 minus £1495

 

its important

 

does the sar say who payments went to

 

have you had annual statements as required by law

[eoghan]

Well you need to find out

 

1/ was the loan £42500 or

2/ £41005 thats £42500 minus £1495

 

its important

 

does the sar say who payments went to

 

have you had annual statements as required by law

 

I'll make sure I ask these questions in the letter I'm sending tomorrow. I'll also ask for copies of the annual states, no the sar only gave a basic statement of account and lists of who they share their data with, I did think it was a bit vague...

[postggj]

Paragon are well known for this so keep me updated

 

last question

 

did you go through a broker or contact paragon direct

[eoghan]

Went through a independent financial advisor (broker I guess), why is that important?

[eoghan]

Ps. Thanks for your help on this...

[postggj]

Went through a independent financial advisor (broker I guess), why is that important?

 

there should be an invoice in your sar on the amount paid to the broker

 

also ask for the statemment of means

 

that will tell you how much the loan is going to cost with the broker fee added into it

 

i cant see any but was any micky mouse insurance added like ppi etc

[eoghan]

there should be an invoice in your sar on the amount paid to the broker

 

also ask for the statemment of means

 

that will tell you how much the loan is going to cost with the broker fee added into it

 

i cant see any but was any micky mouse insurance added like ppi etc

 

Cool, I will ask for these too. The PPI section of the loan agreement s crossed off and here doesn't appear to be any reference to any entries out of the ordinary on the statement sheet.

[postggj]

its just knowing the right questions to ask:-)

 

that will make them think a bit

[eoghan]

Ok here's my letter... Thoughts?

 

 

Letter Before Action

 

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account: xxxxxxxx

I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my SAR & Data Protection Act information request dated (Insert Date). The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that at least the following documents are missing.

1) You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges in relation to this account with no evidence of the origin of the monies for the account

2) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to any legal action between you and myself.

3) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention.

4) You have provided no record of the cheques that were issued to the list of creditors for which you made cheques payable from the funds within the loan amount.

5) There is no record of the contract between yourselves and the broker who set up the application - to show under what terms the fee payment is to be made nor is there a copy of the invoice detailing how much is to be paid to the broker

6) There is no statement of means

7) No Annual Statements

8) No copies of correspondence between your organisation and myself

9) No transcripts of telephone conversations - you do claim these are recorded

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing.

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

The time for compliance with my request has now expired. If you do not comply fully with my Subject Access Request within 7 days, I shall apply to the county court for an order to enforce compliance, together with damages at the discretion of the court.

Yours faithfully,

[42man]

5) There is no record of the contract between yourselves and the broker who set up the application - to show under what terms the fee payment is to be made nor is there a copy of the invoice detailing how much is to be paid to the broker

 

I think it does list your broker fees in the agreement....

[eoghan]

Yeah I know I seen that too, just wanted confirmation outside of the CCA... Otherwise it's ok to send?

[eoghan]

Finally had a response from Paragon:

 

We refer to your recent correspondence and reiterate that so far as we are concerned we have complied fully with our obligations under Section7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 and accordingly are treating the matter as closed. Clearly, you are free to take whatever action you feel appropriate.

 

So basically they've told me to f%€k off...

 

Any ideas as to how I should respond or just start the claim against them as I threatened in the letter and if so, how do kick it off, never claimed before...

 

Cheers

[42man]

I think your first move should be to inform the ICO....