Line Manager who is " in a position of trust" boasts about being routinely in possession of and using Class B drugs

[patrickc75]

Line Manager who is " in a position of trust" boast about being routinely in possession of and using Class B drugs

 

I work as a PA in the Southwest in a firm employing 130 staff. My line manager is a lawyer and thus in a "position of trust" in society. During the past 3 months I have overheard the manager openly admitting that they routinely use a Class B drug - Marijuana - and possess the drugs at home and routinely consume at the weekend.

 

Apparently, traces of such a substance last longest in hair follicles and thus to help avoid "detection" the manager's hair is cropped short.

 

I recently was at a 2 day external training course attended by the manager and 5 other staff. The course included an overnight stay and all six staff shared 3 twin rooms, inc one "smoking" room. The male colleague (a "smoker") who shared with my line manager was shocked to see him smoking a "joint" in their room.

 

As far as I am aware our firm do not conduct routine drug testing.

 

I discreetly spoke to the Avon and Somerset Constabulary and they advised that they took such a matter and potential criminal act extremely seriously. They asked me to pass on the details and even said that it could be done anonymously. However, I am scared that I may receive a backlash if the Police conduct a search of the manager's premises etc. It just so happens that the manager has been unkind and most unprofessional to me recently by falsely accusing me of improper acts and thus in part I feel obliged to take some action in order to rectify matters.

 

I am not willing to just "turn a blind eye", and thus any advice would be appreciated.

[caledfwlch]

Possession of small amounts of MJ for personal use has been a slap on the wrist, not a "serious criminal act" for years.

 

I dont see how he is abusing a position of trust - he is only a lawyer, if he is not under the influence when working, or driving. If he is doing so, then the book indeed should be thrown at him.

 

Is it affecting his work? Are clients cases suffering?

 

Also he is talking complete rubbish with regards hair - if the Police or the employer were going to perform a drugs test, they would check his urine, since MJ stays within the body for up to 30 days.

 

Is he expecting police officers to come sniffing his short back and sides :lol:

[postggj]

where i live, if you get caught with any illegal drugs then ts a court appearence

 

each force has its own policy on so called soft drugs

 

he is abusing his position of trust as being a solicitor then he is a commisionair of oats, or officer of the court as such and will be struck off if convicted

 

a urin sample will detect a joint for up to 30 days

 

drugs are illegal and should not be tolerated

 

smoke whatever in your own home or on your own then fine

 

do it in the public domain then you deserve all you get

[honeybee13]

Hello there and welcome to the forum.

 

Perhaps I could ask whether this is about your boss's drug use or other problems you have at work please? Previous posters have advised you about drug use.

 

My best, HB

[elpulpo]

Can you elaborate on the unreasonable behaviour towards you thaat you've alleged? Maybe we can help you to address that.

I think you're on a hiding to nothing trying to set him up because of his drug use, that could backfire and make you look unreasonble.

[mines a pint]

 

.…….……he is a commisionair of oats, .……

 

If he''s caught he could end up doing 'Porridge'

 

(Sorry postggj - couldnt resist that one )

[honeybee13]

If he''s caught he could end up doing 'Porridge'

 

(Sorry postggj - couldnt resist that one )

 

I wish I'd spotted that.

 

My best, HB

[patrickc75]

Can you elaborate on the unreasonable behaviour towards you thaat you've alleged? Maybe we can help you to address that.

I think you're on a hiding to nothing trying to set him up because of his drug use, that could backfire and make you look unreasonble.

 

Well this a bit personal...but I am gay and he has accused me of being a "queer" at a recent works outing in front of 4 other staff. I raised a formal grievance and within 3 days was served with 4 witness statements from the other staff sat at my table all saying the same thing.....they heard and saw nothing untoward ; in fact two said they were drunk and could not recollect any of the evening's events ! The line manager did , however, admit to making a comment in my direction, but claims that it was misinterpreted as it was allegedly made in a jocular and supportive manner. He claims that he was in fact referring to the "event" being held in a "queer venue that may be making me feel uncomfortable". It's one thing having a solicitor take drugs, but it is another when they lie. A female work colleague who was at the event has recently admitted to the following to me in confidence. She told me that one of the staff who was seated at the table (and submitted a non committal witness statement re her being drunk) told her about the tactless remark made by the line manager about me being a "queer" later the same evening at the event and that she was shocked. She also felt that the lady who gave the witness did not appear to be drunk because she remarkably lucid at 10pm and the remark was made at approx 845pm. The lady who told me about this did, however, not wish at this stage to make a statement unless absolutely necessary for fear of reprisals. Anyhow, last week I was asked to attend a disciplinary meeting for sub standard performance with my filing....my line managers files were in perfect order on the Friday evening, and I had a the next Monday morning off work. When I came back to work on Monday afternoon the files were in slight disarray and the disciplinary letter landed on my desk the next day. BUT I do not wish to bore the forum with such matters because ACAS have been very helpful in this regard.

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by postggj

 

.…….……he is a commisionair of oats, .……[/Quote]

 

If he''s caught he could end up doing 'Porridge'

 

(Sorry postggj - couldnt resist that one )

 

 

I have to say that I agree with much of what is posted above. Hearsay and hard evidence are two completely different things, and whatever you think of drugs, or those who abuse them whilst in a position of some authority, you will be very hard pressed to have sufficient proof for the police to investigate. They certainly won't come in and do random hair sample tests, and providing that any consumption is at home and not in public, then that will probably remain his business. Naturally if the workplace were being used for dealing, or if there was open consumption of drugs at work then this would be completely different, similarly if he were to be caught in possession whilst driving, and the matter would then become deeply embarrassing for the firm, and personally damaging for the individual. To raise your voice without the use of drugs being obvious would most likely find you looking for another job, not him

[car2403]

Harassment is harassment, no matter what the intention of the offender causing it. If you really feel strongly about that, then, no matter what the witnesses say, you should pursue that appropriately. What was the outcome of the grievance situation, exactly?

 

It seems very OTT to have a disciplinary hearing for a single event of filing in a mess - is there some history there that we're missing, perhaps? Have these issues been highlighted in the past?

 

I think, if you are claiming you're being harassed, now is the time to address this with your HR department. It seems to me that your boss may be 'playing games' by bringing disciplinary action against you and it may be a result of you submitting a grievance, which is bang out of order. (The disciplinary retaliation, not the grievance)

 

It's good you're getting some help from ACAS, but we do have some very experienced members with employment issues like this. Are you a member of a Union who could support you, also?

[Sidewinder]

I think from what you have said that you need to keep your powder dry for now. Make a very careful note of everything which happens, and keep a record of the events at the works outing, together with the colleagues private recollection and her expression of shock. I don't think there is sufficient proof of discrimination on the account that you have given, but as you say, ACAS are supporting you with that.

 

You certainly need to appeal against any warning or disciplinary action resulting from the 'filing' incident and add this to your 'evidence bundle', for it may be required in any future action should you continue to be victimised or discriminated against.

[elpulpo]

If he''s caught he could end up doing 'Porridge'

 

(Sorry postggj - couldnt resist that one )

B*ll*cks!! I spent about 10 minutes trying to think of some witty wee remark based on oats! Well Done!!

So obvious too.

[pmj91]

It just so happens that the manager has been unkind and most unprofessional to me recently by falsely accusing me of improper acts and thus in part I feel obliged to take some action in order to rectify matters.

If your manager has been unkind and is 'mistreating' you then you should take it up with higher management and follow the grievance process at your workplace. I do sympathise with you about the comments made about you - totally unacceptable and what a shame the other witnessess chose not to back you.

 

On the matter of cannabis, what another human does in their own time out of the way of meddling busy bodies is their own business and nobody should infringe on that when it does not harm or endanger others. My polite advice to you - mind your own business and request that the manager to keep his mouth shut at work about it. Don't want to hear about it? That's fair.

It's not fair for you to interfere otherwise so I think you should carefully consider that. Don't let the other problems influence your action in relation to another mans personal choices and free will.

Edited April 2, 2011 by pmj91

[patrickc75]

If your manager has been unkind and is 'mistreating' you then you should take it up with higher management and follow the grievance process at your workplace. I do sympathise with you about the comments made about you - totally unacceptable and what a shame the other witnessess chose not to back you.

 

On the matter of cannabis, what another human does in their own time out of the way of meddling busy bodies is their own business and nobody should infringe on that when it does not harm or endanger others. My polite advice to you - mind your own business and request that the manager to keep his mouth shut at work about it. Don't want to hear about it? That's fair.

It's not fair for you to interfere otherwise so I think you should carefully consider that. Don't let the other problems influence your action in relation to another mans personal choices and free will.

 

Thanks again for your input. As I feared the debate has now been distracted by the alleged harassment that I am facing. However, I do not need and help with that matter ; ACAS and a pro bono lawyer are on board and I trust them implicitly. May I / we therefore simply focus on the topic of the post - the alleged use of Class B Drugs by a solicitor. The Police do NOT agree with the view taken by many members that it is my line manager's own business what he does in his own home. The Police would take the matter even more seriously if a citizen who is held in trust breaches such confidence. It is true that the Police are not overly concerned about the limited consumption of a Class B Drug - such a criminal offence for a person " held in trust" they suggest would result in a formal caution. However, in order to impose such a light sentance they would require full disclosure of the name(s) of the supplier/ frequency of use ...and willingness to submit to random blood / urine testing for an unspecified period. I am a highly principled individual and I think that I may well contact the Police again to pass on the appropriate details. If there are repercussions on myself then so be it.

[pmj91]

A well principled individual does not take drugs. They don't encourage it and make vunerable people around them aware of the dangers. They campaign for the government or drugs help organisations or whoever to make whatever changes they believe in to stop the harm drugs do. Maybe they should report the supply of drugs if they see it.....maybe.....as this is affecting other people.

 

Principles are irrelevant however when it comes to the personal actions of somebody else which do not affect, harm or endanger others. Its quite frankly none of your business and I hope that any police enquiry is unsuccessful and you are discovered to be the meddler. Of course the police don't share other peoples view - it is their job to prosecute and enforce the law where they are given evidence to do so. Their opinion will always be the same because IT HAS TO BE. That is their job and they are restricted to that.

 

For the record, I don't take drugs and I don't like them or think they should be around. But it's not my place to interfer with others free will to do as they wish with their own lives.

[car2403]

I think if you're really concerned about it, you owe it to yourself to report it to the Police and let them deal with it.

 

sorry, what is the query, then?

[Sidewinder]

I appreciate that you may not want advice on the employment related aspects of your story, but much of what has been written stems from the fact that the two seem interlinked, and your admission that you want to redress the balance between what he has done to you, and your belief that he may use cannabis.

 

During the past 3 months I have overheard the manager openly admitting that they routinely use a Class B drug - Marijuana - and possess the drugs at home and routinely consume at the weekend.[/Quote]

 

I KNOW a number of people who use Marijuana - some in equally well respected positions. I may not agree with it, but wouldn't dream of interfering in their lives any more than I would expect them to question some of my activities. On the basis of what you have said, you could arrest about half of the people in town on a Saturday night.

 

Apparently, traces of such a substance last longest in hair follicles and thus to help avoid "detection" the manager's hair is cropped short.

[/Quote]

 

Oh come on! I don't know what I am trying to avoid detection of, but I wear my hair cropped short, and haven't been within a whiff of cannabis for about 30 years!

 

I recently was at a 2 day external training course attended by the manager and 5 other staff. The course included an overnight stay and all six staff shared 3 twin rooms, inc one "smoking" room. The male colleague (a "smoker") who shared with my line manager was shocked to see him smoking a "joint" in their room.

[/Quote]

 

Sorry, but this would not be sufficient grounds under PACE for the manager to be searched, unless there was corroborating evidence. If the colleague who witnessed the taking of drugs also provided a statement, then maybe there would be grounds to observe, but which Police force currently has the resources to spend time and money on an individual who MIGHT be using drugs with only hearsay as the grounds for investigation? By the same reckoning, one could instigate criminal investigations into a significant percentage of the population, and a lawyer would have a field day with this.

 

As far as I am aware our firm do not conduct routine drug testing.

[/Quote]

 

Then why not suggest it?

 

I discreetly spoke to the Avon and Somerset Constabulary and they advised that they took such a matter and potential criminal act extremely seriously. They asked me to pass on the details and even said that it could be done anonymously. However, I am scared that I may receive a backlash if the Police conduct a search of the manager's premises etc. It just so happens that the manager has been unkind and most unprofessional to me recently by falsely accusing me of improper acts and thus in part I feel obliged to take some action in order to rectify matters.

[/Quote]

 

Why would there be a backlash if this was carried out anonymously? I would have thought any suspicion would be towards those who actually witnessed him taking drugs?

 

I am not willing to just "turn a blind eye", and thus any advice would be appreciated.

[/Quote]

 

What are you unwilling to turn a blind eye to? The fact that he takes drugs, or the fact that he takes drugs AND has done you wrong as a manager? This is an emotive subject and whilst your sentiments may well be noble in origin, the fact is that many many thousands of people use marijuana - even some worthy members of society such as lawyers, and for so long as this does not affect their job, and it is for personal use only rather than financial gain or to unduly influence others, then many would ask 'What is the Problem?' The manner in which you have asked your question indicates a desire to do harm in return for what he has made you to suffer, and on what you have said, it appears that you are clutching at straws to make a case. You acknowledge that you want to 'get him back' for making false accusations, but this does not seem the way to do it, and whatever the Police say, they would need reasonable grounds to suspect before taking action, and current policy is that even if searched and found with drugs, so long as this is for personal use, the drugs would be confiscated and he would get a caution unless he has a previous record, so what would you gain? You probably wouldn't even know, and neither would the employer.

 

I just feel that your efforts would be far better spent in nailing him for the discriminatory and harassing behaviour and leave the drugs alone unless there is hard evidence. I have no strong opinions in either direction as regards drugs. I personally don't agree with taking them, but then I don't like drunks either, and I don't differentiate between an alcoholic lawyer and one who uses Cannabis just because one is legal and one is not.

[patrickc75]

Well the debate is now certainly becoming far more interesting. As the Police advised and was correctly stated in a previous post it is the Police's duty to enforce the law and not make the law. It may be that Avon and Somerset are less lenient than other constabularies, but I pay my Council Tax to them and thus I have a right to anonymously request that they do in fact enforce the law where there is reasonable grounds of suspicion, which there undoubtedly is. Based on the hearsay evidence presented to them the Police advised that so long as they have a name and address they would most definitely conduct an investigation etc and if any evidence of use and/or possession is identified then action would be taken. They advised that such action may be perceived as being a mere "slap on the wrist" to some , but a caution is still a criminal record. Furthermore, and this has probably been overlooked, Cannabis has recently been upgraded from a Class C drug to a Class B drug. The Police were also concerned that quite oten the use of a Class B drug can be the tip of an iceberg and on occasions there can be other associated offences. I may be perceived as being a busy body, but all that I am seeking to do is uphold the law of the land and that is certainly not a crime.

[jonnycooper]

Is the real issue that weed is being smoked ?

 

I am sorry and this is very much a personal point of view.

 

If it doesn't stop you from sleeping at night, if it doesn't stop you from waking each morning or putting food on your table, what is the problem.

 

In other words if it does not directly effect you in anyway whatsoever what is the actual problem.

 

Yes he smokes weed and yes it is against the law but why is this a personal issue for you.

 

From reading this thread it feels that your disgust at smoking of weed and the way you feel about how you have been treated are far more closer related than you may realise.

[Sidewinder]

Well the debate is now certainly becoming far more interesting. As the Police advised and was correctly stated in a previous post it is the Police's duty to enforce the law and not make the law. It may be that Avon and Somerset are less lenient than other constabularies, but I pay my Council Tax to them and thus I have a right to anonymously request that they do in fact enforce the law where there is reasonable grounds of suspicion, which there undoubtedly is.

 

Avon and Somerset apply the same ACPO Guidelines as for other Forces - the three stage system

 

Based on the hearsay evidence presented to them the Police advised that so long as they have a name and address they would most definitely conduct an investigation etc and if any evidence of use and/or possession is identified then action would be taken. They advised that such action may be perceived as being a mere "slap on the wrist" to some , but a caution is still a criminal record.

 

No it isn't. For a first offence for simple possession, a Cannabis Warning would be issued. This does not even involve an arrest, merely a seizure of the drugs and a recording of the incident. For a second offence a Penalty Notice for Disorder is recommended, and being charged and prosecuted would be appropriate only for third and any subsequent offence.

 

Furthermore, and this has probably been overlooked, Cannabis has recently been upgraded from a Class C drug to a Class B drug. The Police were also concerned that quite oten the use of a Class B drug can be the tip of an iceberg and on occasions there can be other associated offences. I may be perceived as being a busy body, but all that I am seeking to do is uphold the law of the land and that is certainly not a crime.

 

Not overlooked at all - it has been a Class B for some time, but it is still treated differently under ACPO Guidelines to other substances

 

As I said previously, your intentions would be well motivated if not (in part at least) driven by a desire for revenge. Hopefully your actions, for you seem set on a particular course of action, will give you the satisfaction that you clearly hope for. On the other side however, what if everything you have heard cannot be proven, or is in fact not true at all? What if he used to have an occasional puff, but no longer does? What if the Police turn up at work or at his home and search the place on your evidence and nothing is found? What if it does come to light that you put them up to it? What if, as a lawyer, he feels that his professional reputation has been sufficiently damaged by your allegations that he feels legal action is appropriate - Defamation? Malicious Falsehood?

 

No doubt your desire to see the law upheld extends to every walk of life. Does his dog foul the pavement? Does he occasionally exceed the speed limit? If you knew this to be the case then would you be talking about reporting this to the police or would that not provide sufficient damage to him? Would you take the same level of interest if this wasn't the same person who has mistreated you personally? I just feel that you should focus on the proper legal redress for his actions against you and not go looking for the extra pound of flesh.

 

Good luck.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Yes he smokes weed and yes it is against the law but why is this a personal issue for you.

 

 

I imagine in much the same way that someone would feel uncomfortable if they were aware that an individual was engaged in other sorts of criminal activity. If people just take your 'nothing to do with me' attitude, then people wouldn't report things like child abuse, or domestic violence when they became aware of it.

 

 

 

 

On a lighter note:

 

I am gay and he has accused me of being a "queer" at a recent works outing

 

I had no idea that this sort of thing went on!

[caledfwlch]

As I said previously, your intentions would be well motivated if not (in part at least) driven by a desire for revenge. Hopefully your actions, for you seem set on a particular course of action, will give you the satisfaction that you clearly hope for. On the other side however, what if everything you have heard cannot be proven, or is in fact not true at all? What if he used to have an occasional puff, but no longer does? What if the Police turn up at work or at his home and search the place on your evidence and nothing is found? What if it does come to light that you put them up to it? What if, as a lawyer, he feels that his professional reputation has been sufficiently damaged by your allegations that he feels legal action is appropriate - Defamation? Malicious Falsehood?

 

No doubt your desire to see the law upheld extends to every walk of life. Does his dog foul the pavement? Does he occasionally exceed the speed limit? If you knew this to be the case then would you be talking about reporting this to the police or would that not provide sufficient damage to him? Would you take the same level of interest if this wasn't the same person who has mistreated you personally? I just feel that you should focus on the proper legal redress for his actions against you and not go looking for the extra pound of flesh.

 

Good luck.

 

Its a ludicrous thing, really. I bet fellow members of staff who drink alcohol are far more of a threat and danger to society than this chap with his odd spliff.

 

I would honestly and truly be amazed should the Police actually tool up and raid a property because the resident "may" have a small amount of personal use MJ - As a council tax payer, I consider that to be a massive misuse of funds and manpower by the Police, there are real criminals that need catching, drug dealers for example.

 

Nowadays its not a case of banging on a door and going in for a quick look, due to that particular field of crime, The OP's "Police visit", will take the shape of a team of at least 7 or 8 Support Group Officers in full body armour, and riot gear, plain clothes detectives, dog handlers and their pooches, normal uniformed officers, and depending on the area, or the general experience of the Commander in that area, it would be entirely possible that the circus would also be backed by Firearms Officers, operating out of Armed Response Vehicles.

 

Now THAT to me as a taxpayer, is a disgusting waste of time, money and effort just for grabbing £10 worth of drugs, followed by not even a proper caution.

 

Incidently, I don't take drugs - even Alcohol is a rare event for me - a night out maybe once a month or every two months. I fully agree that smoking cannabis is a gateway drug, and the "tip of the iceberg" however, I totally disagree as to what the OP will consider to be the reasons.

 

Cannabis does not lead you to harder drugs because that is what cannabis does, it leads you to harder drugs, because your criminal dealer has a vested interest in switching you to those harder drugs, to improve his profit, and ensure he has a loyal/totally addicted customer base.

 

This is why, in most forces, the Police have taken the decision to simply confiscate and issue a cannabis warning for personal use level amounts, because its a waste of time and money - the Police know full well its the dealers they need to focus on.

Edited April 2, 2011 by caledfwlch
additional posting

[patrickc75]

Spoke to the Police at Avon & Somerset Constabulary again yesterday re some of the interesting liberal points raised above. They almost burst out laughing at the prospect of having to send out a sizeable squad of armed officers to a residential property in order to conduct a random search for Class B drugs. All that is required is 2 officers and a sniffer dog - in and out in 15 mins if clean......down the station if not. Simple as.

 

And once again, they advised me that it is admirable for a member of the public to advise the Police re any citzen held in a position of trust who based on more than just hearsay may be blatantly and routinely breaking the law.

 

They also confirmed that I would not be wasting time. In fact, if they could ultimately track down a supplier then I would end up saving police time. They also confirmed that the use of Class B drugs is far far more serious than dogs littering the pavement or speeding which for the main part are not deemed as offences warranting arrest, caution and / or prosecution and a member of the public notifying them of such minor misdemeanours could be viewed as potentially wasting valuable police time.

[car2403]

Ok, so you've reported it then? Or, have you asked about what happens if you do report it? I'm confuzzed...

[patrickc75]

Some work colleagues are going around to Line Manager's house for a party in 2 weeks time and have been told that there will be spliffs available later once all the bores have left. Thus, the matter will be reported by them in due course. Unless of course they suddenly become all liberal , forget about the whole thing and move to Amsterdam lol