possible sanction for refusing a job

[strad6]

This is my first offense but I think that i will get a sanction, the job was not within my experience, I don't have a parts experience as I have been an analyst in finance.

 

But as I capable of doing the job I am sure I will get a sanction, I did fail to apply for the position I cant remember the job.

 

I don't have any sanctions or fixed penalties against me.

 

What is typical of a first offense sanction for refusing a job, is it 26 weeks?

 

Also I am due to start New Deal in a week, will this sanction, if I get one, as I have had the "A doubt has been raised" letter apply to New Deal training, I don't know how you get the benefits when on New Deal.

 

Is it all from Jobcentre plus. or do they transfer you off JSA, for government reasons.

 

Thanks

 

Strad

[frank_begbie]

For my first offence they stopped my JSA for 21 weeks.

After appealing it got reduced to 4 weeks.

[strad6]

Thanks for the reply,

 

Did you have any previous fixed penalty sanctions?

 

And was it a straight forward, you should have applied for the job but did not?

 

ie, You could have done job, but maybe it was not a perfect match.

 

Was it an early offense within the new harder sanctions, so the Decision Officers did not know where to place the sanction, 21 is very harsh.

 

What grounds did you appeal on to get it reduced?

 

Lastly, how long was the appeal process start to finish?

 

Thanks

[frank_begbie]

I was given 2 identical jobs to apply for, one was local, the other was less money and I had to travel.

 

So me being logical decided not to apply for the one out of town as It would have left me worse off.

 

But my biggest mistake was telling the Advisor the following signing day.

 

So I appealed, writing down everything down about how getting the other job would have left me worse off, (bus fares and train fares and the low wage).

 

In the meanwhile I claimed Hardship Allowance (£85 a week)

 

So I ended getting nothing for the first 2 weeks then £85 for the following 2 weeks then my JSA was reinstated.

 

A mate of mine was sanctioned for a fortnight for not providing any evidence about his job search. So I was expecting the same.

 

Its an absolute minefield now, and you have to be aware that they will stop your benefit for the slightest misdemeanor.

[strad6]

I was not given the job, I just looked at the screen there was nothing that I recall that the advisor said to me. I am getting interveiws and am active

 

I guess I will have to wait and appeal, the job was ok for travel though, just i dont have the experience of parts in garage

[JrnyFan4Life]

I had a similar situation last year, was sent a job through the post which I was under-qualified for, so didn't apply for it. Then received a letter asking my why I didn't apply, and was given a box with which to insert my comments. I duly told them that I was in no way qualified for the job and that applying for it would of been a waste of mine and the employers time. They were happy with that and no further action was taken.

[strad6]

What if you had no experience of the job, but you where capable of doing it?

 

Is that a refusal?

[Guest jsa12]

For my first offence

 

you have not committed any offense,this is just their one way of "trying" to catch people out.many times i have had this and applied on each occasion hence its important to keep email proof or recorded delivery,many times £1.15 on recorded delivery has saved a lot of hassle.

 

why they tell them someone hasn't applied when they clearly have,the job centre states blame them but the job centre is the ones making the allegations.

 

this keeps happening on here.

[Nystagmite]

Why did you not tell them that you felt that the job isn't suitable? I've always been asked "is this job suitable?" After asking a few questions, (because I had no idea where this job was, plus a few other things) I then and only then accepted it.

[strad6]

I did not send a CV in to the job i took from the employment officer, it was just at a signing on day that he brought up a list, and said what jobs they had on the jobcentre.

 

So i took it and failed to apply, there where other jobs i found that week that better matched, but i took the sheet of paper, so I should have sent a CV in, i did not lie about it, i just did not send a cv in.

 

Nor did I write it on the list of jobs that i sent a CV in for, the one that you sign for.

[Guest jsa12]

it does sound as if their not matching the person to the job,i dont know if anyone else has doubts about their search codes,did the job say must have experience when you did not?.if you have been submitted then you must reply or it is likely to come back as "a doubt has arisen"a doubt has arisen about the job centre too,these can and do come back even when you have applied and they have signed for the letter.to be fair you cant blame everyone but these are annoying and worrying to many.it may be that a word in the job matched what you have done and it has shown.

 

when jobs like these show "can you get to" is the first thing mentioned but they don't look or read the requirements which can quickly discount someone for whatever reason.

[21muk]

first offense, should be around a 2 week sanction...second possible 4-6 weeks..and third..strike and your in trouble..my third i got a 6 month sanction..i begged..pleaded..and luckely they droped it to 3 and a half month..my advice to you is, play there game..play there tune..i know its hard sometimes..but while they are paying you money..you seriously just need to jump hoops for them and keep them as sweet as possible.as far as not applying for jobs because your under qualified for them..who cares?you have nothing to lose then do you..just go to the interview/apply for it..rather than not apply for it and have the jobcentre on your back

[flumps1976]

There are no set time limits on sanctions for failing to apply or refusing to apply for a job. The sanction can anything from 2 to 26 weeks regardless of how long you have been claiming or if it is the 1st or 100th job you have been matched to or given at an appointment or signing.

[Darth Sid]

Here's my tale about "A doubt has arisen":-

 

I got one of those ES195REJP forms on January 2nnd this year (2011) about a vacancy the JC claimed I had not applied for/refused to apply for/failed to accept/etc. I knew for a fact that I had indeed applied for it, as 1) I recall the day and (approx) time of writing it out, printing out the CV and taking it to the local Post Office Counters branch to post, but also 2) because I scan every application for employment to keep as a record for myself.

 

Basically, I had my 3 monthly review/interview on Friday 10th December 2010, and discussed other types of work I could do to maximise my chances of gaining employment. As I had done some office-type work during my last employment, I put that down. I was told of 2 vacancies fitting that description and was given a "Client Copy" relating to both of them.

 

The vacancy which the "doubt" would "arise" over had a closing date of 14th December 2010, so I had to apply quickly to get it in on time. I actually completed both applications by end afternoon, so opted to send both via 1st Class Royal Mail.

 

Friday 21st January, had just finished my 6 week run of a weekly signing period. Heard nothing at the JC, so I assumed that all was OK. The next day, Saturday 22nd January, I received the ES195REJP through the post, and noticed it had been dated 21st January, the day before... the same day I had been signing! I was puzzled why this had not been given to me when I signed, and angry because I had bleeding well applied for the vacancy! I printed off the scanned copy of my completed ES5JP application form as proof that I had indeed applied for it.

 

Monday 24th January, I went to the local JC and handed over the ES195REJP and a copy of the application form. I was assured it was merely a formality and it would be sorted out. I decided to write it in my JSA diary that I had received the form and that I had been to the JC to sort it out. In fact the next day, Tuesday 25th January, I was phoned by the JC regarding a job opportunity that had just come up that day. I asked in passing about the "doubt", they said they had no record and it wasnt in the notes.

 

Tuesday, 1st February, another letter regarding the "doubt", this time form ES48S. I went back to the local JC, saw the same advisor, but this time she was somewhat hostile, and tried to say 1) I had used the wrong form to apply, and 2) that I had applied with a pre-scanned copy instead of a hand-written one! I replied that I had applied with a hand-written application, to which they pointed out that the proof I had brought them last week was "clearly not hand written, it’s obviously been printed off."! i.e. she couldn’t figure out that a printout of a scanned copy (in essence a photocopy, to all intents and purposes) of my hand-written application would obviously be, well, a printout! I pointed out that 1) what I had given them was (in essence) a photocopy of my hand-written form as proof, and 2) the writing was obviously hand-written originally, as it was quite untidy. I stated that a computer is unlikely to be able to put such an obviously untidy typeface/font! 3) even if I had used the wrong form or not, that’s not the same as not applying! Why didn’t anyone get in touch to say so in that case?!

 

She got quite annoyed and accused me of shouting. I apologised if I gave that impression, but I was quite annoyed at being presumed guilty when it was quite obvious I was innocent!

 

I visited the CAB on Wednesday, 2nd February, and they were very helpful. I got the impression the JC staff member on the phone with the CAB volunteer was quite shocked!

 

Thursday, 3rd February, I received another letter, this time form ES86B. This form had questions for me to answer on the reverse side. I opted to compose a word-processed document, as the answers I would give would be quite comprehensive.

 

One of the questions asked, and even now I am amused/astounded they asked, was how come I had “a copy of the application form?”! Um… page 2 of the ES48S has a relevant point about that in “Guidance Notes”!

 

I sent the reply with examples of copies of other vacancies I applied for, on Friday, 4th February via Recorded Delivery.

 

I have heard nothing since then! I am glad to report that I am now in employment and have closed my JSA claim.

 

But the moral of the story is to make sure you have/make a copy of any completed application forms for vacancies, and if possible get proof of their postage. I didn’t get proof of postage, but I am really glad that I kept scanned copies of my applications for employment; otherwise I would have been up the proverbial creek without the paddle!

JSA - Doubt.pdf

[wishface]

For my first offence they stopped my JSA for 21 weeks.

After appealing it got reduced to 4 weeks.

 

My god, that's a death sentence surely!

[caledfwlch]

Here's my tale about "A doubt has arisen":-

 

I got one of those ES195REJP forms on January 2nnd this year (2011) about a vacancy the JC claimed I had not applied for/refused to apply for/failed to accept/etc. I knew for a fact that I had indeed applied for it, as 1) I recall the day and (approx) time of writing it out, printing out the CV and taking it to the local Post Office Counters branch to post, but also 2) because I scan every application for employment to keep as a record for myself.

 

Basically, I had my 3 monthly review/interview on Friday 10th December 2010, and discussed other types of work I could do to maximise my chances of gaining employment. As I had done some office-type work during my last employment, I put that down. I was told of 2 vacancies fitting that description and was given a "Client Copy" relating to both of them.

 

The vacancy which the "doubt" would "arise" over had a closing date of 14th December 2010, so I had to apply quickly to get it in on time. I actually completed both applications by end afternoon, so opted to send both via 1st Class Royal Mail.

 

Friday 21st January, had just finished my 6 week run of a weekly signing period. Heard nothing at the JC, so I assumed that all was OK. The next day, Saturday 22nd January, I received the ES195REJP through the post, and noticed it had been dated 21st January, the day before... the same day I had been signing! I was puzzled why this had not been given to me when I signed, and angry because I had bleeding well applied for the vacancy! I printed off the scanned copy of my completed ES5JP application form as proof that I had indeed applied for it.

 

Monday 24th January, I went to the local JC and handed over the ES195REJP and a copy of the application form. I was assured it was merely a formality and it would be sorted out. I decided to write it in my JSA diary that I had received the form and that I had been to the JC to sort it out. In fact the next day, Tuesday 25th January, I was phoned by the JC regarding a job opportunity that had just come up that day. I asked in passing about the "doubt", they said they had no record and it wasnt in the notes.

 

Tuesday, 1st February, another letter regarding the "doubt", this time form ES48S. I went back to the local JC, saw the same advisor, but this time she was somewhat hostile, and tried to say 1) I had used the wrong form to apply, and 2) that I had applied with a pre-scanned copy instead of a hand-written one! I replied that I had applied with a hand-written application, to which they pointed out that the proof I had brought them last week was "clearly not hand written, it’s obviously been printed off."! i.e. she couldn’t figure out that a printout of a scanned copy (in essence a photocopy, to all intents and purposes) of my hand-written application would obviously be, well, a printout! I pointed out that 1) what I had given them was (in essence) a photocopy of my hand-written form as proof, and 2) the writing was obviously hand-written originally, as it was quite untidy. I stated that a computer is unlikely to be able to put such an obviously untidy typeface/font! 3) even if I had used the wrong form or not, that’s not the same as not applying! Why didn’t anyone get in touch to say so in that case?!

 

She got quite annoyed and accused me of shouting. I apologised if I gave that impression, but I was quite annoyed at being presumed guilty when it was quite obvious I was innocent!

 

I visited the CAB on Wednesday, 2nd February, and they were very helpful. I got the impression the JC staff member on the phone with the CAB volunteer was quite shocked!

 

Thursday, 3rd February, I received another letter, this time form ES86B. This form had questions for me to answer on the reverse side. I opted to compose a word-processed document, as the answers I would give would be quite comprehensive.

 

One of the questions asked, and even now I am amused/astounded they asked, was how come I had “a copy of the application form?”! Um… page 2 of the ES48S has a relevant point about that in “Guidance Notes”!

 

I sent the reply with examples of copies of other vacancies I applied for, on Friday, 4th February via Recorded Delivery.

 

I have heard nothing since then! I am glad to report that I am now in employment and have closed my JSA claim.

 

But the moral of the story is to make sure you have/make a copy of any completed application forms for vacancies, and if possible get proof of their postage. I didn’t get proof of postage, but I am really glad that I kept scanned copies of my applications for employment; otherwise I would have been up the proverbial creek without the paddle!

 

What on earth has whether you hand write or type up the application form got to do with anything!

 

The staff member sounds completely nuts - I dare them to find a bit of lesgislation or a rule that obliges you to work via handwritten - some of us have medical reasons for poor hand writing, and some of us simply have bad handwriting, and sending a form in with bad handwriting is going to get your application thrown straight in the bin!

 

Madness