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    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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ESA re-application following a failed ESA appeal


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Can someone please clarify beyond doubt the question about when you can reapply for ESA following a failed appeal? It is 6 months after the appeal date itself or 6 months after a failed ATOS medical confirmation letter from the DWP stating fitness for work?

 

I have my appeal in 5 weeks and if I fail the last thing I want to do is apply for JSA!

 

The date of my failed ATOS medical was in Aug 2010 which is obviously over 7 months ago now so if i fail my ESA appeal can I immediately reapply for ESA?

 

Many thanks

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It is 6 months after the decision of the failed medical so if tribunal is not successful you would be able to reapply straight away.

Make sure you read sticky on here and prepare supporting evidence so that tribunal overturns the decision so you don't have to go through the farce again. Good luck

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It is 6 months after the decision of the failed medical so if tribunal is not successful you would be able to reapply straight away.

Make sure you read sticky on here and prepare supporting evidence so that tribunal overturns the decision so you don't have to go through the farce again. Good luck

 

rightsF,

 

thanks for that mate,

 

much obliged

 

sd

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Hiya I just wanted to say I really hope you win at the tribunal good luck... because Iv just failed my tribunal and was just told I can't claim jobseekers allowence because i cant work and I need to re- apply for ESA I could scream because they stopped my ESA last week and now say its ok to claim it. I feel Like they have done this so they don't have to pay my backdated money .. I hope you get someone who is really understanding and understands your illness I think that was my problem the man didn't understand my illness.

 

good luck

Mandy

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  • 2 weeks later...

You wouldn't believe the relief I'm feeling from finding this forum. I lost my tribunal yesterday and had no idea what to do next - except to just accept that I'd have to sign on. Thankfully my medical was 5 months 3 weeks ago, so thanks for the knowledge that I can start again in a week! Also, thanks to all who gave advice in the stickied thread - I can see why I lost so convincingly now - I just ticked the boxes on the forms and tried to look like a normal human being at the medical. Silly, really.

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You wouldn't believe the relief I'm feeling from finding this forum. I lost my tribunal yesterday and had no idea what to do next - except to just accept that I'd have to sign on. Thankfully my medical was 5 months 3 weeks ago, so thanks for the knowledge that I can start again in a week! Also, thanks to all who gave advice in the stickied thread - I can see why I lost so convincingly now - I just ticked the boxes on the forms and tried to look like a normal human being at the medical. Silly, really.

 

can you keep us up to date with events mate

 

I have my tribunal in 4 weeks so how should i behave?! Should I act normal or downtrodden?

 

I know you can apply for ESA after 6 months but will they pay you any money when you do apply? The DWP may accept your ESA claim but is that the same as accepting it and paying you any money on submission of a sick note?

 

thanks

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can you keep us up to date with events mate

 

I have my tribunal in 4 weeks so how should i behave?! Should I act normal or downtrodden?

 

Unfortunately I can't help there, as I was too ill to attend. From what I've read in the aforementioned sticky thread, is that preparation along the way is all. I don't think my attendance would have made the least bit of difference due to my not having any points from my medical (and I'd only be claiming for a few months - I sailed through the original medical), nor a letter from my actual, real-world GP.

 

This time, I'm going prepared!

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I know you can apply for ESA after 6 months but will they pay you any money when you do apply? The DWP may accept your ESA claim but is that the same as accepting it and paying you any money on submission of a sick note?

 

thanks

 

Sorry, missed that bit. I'm assuming that if you reapply with a valid sick note that they have no choice other than to start the whole thing again. I'd be grateful if anyone could correct me if I've misunderstood that.

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Yes, I can confirm that on failing your tribunal and reapplying for ESA it is seen as a fresh claim and you start all over again. I'm awaiting my second tribunal and have, effectively, been on the assessment rate continuously since November 2009 ...

Rae

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Yes, I can confirm that on failing your tribunal and reapplying for ESA it is seen as a fresh claim and you start all over again. I'm awaiting my second tribunal and have, effectively, been on the assessment rate continuously since November 2009 ...

Rae

 

Thanks for that very welcome info!

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Hello everyone, today I was at the CAB they helped me fill out my new ESA form, I managed to get another sick note from my g.p so all the process is starting again... Hopefully by next week I will have some money...

Thankyou for all your help i'll keep you up to date with what happens..

Mandy .

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  • 3 months later...

Hi, Im new here. I just want to say thank you for all the info everybody has put up. I failed my Tribunal yesterday after the snobby Doctor didnt believe me. I sat there rolling his eyes at everything I said then looked down on me when I told him my mum and my partner (who I both live with) or out of work! I couldnt believe it! I asked at the end whether Id recieve information about what to do next if they dont award me ESA. The man who was on the legal side said Id recieve a letter and it will tell me everything I need to know in there. No such letter has arrived. Just their decision letter telling me they agree with the state (which is no big suprise after yesterday's interigation!) Iv been worried sick as to what to do know. The JSA have told me I cant claim them as I cant do a full day's work. Iv just been turned down for ESA. All this worry and panic is making me ill :( It's now July 2011, I had my medical March 2010 so Im assuming I can make a new claim for ESA. Iv read that this can only be done if you have a different illness. You cant claim on an illness you have already tried to claim for. Is this true? If so im screwed!!! How do i go about making a new claim? I was siging on at the time of my first claim. I just had to fill a form out and send it to somewhere within the JSA along with my sick note. As of yesterday Im not claiming anything. I really cannot go without money. There isnt enough coming into the household with my mum and partner out of work aswell. Im going to end up in all kinds of trouble with the company I have have debts with. I just dont know what to do. Can anybody PLEASE help me??

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The JSA have told me I cant claim them as I cant do a full day's work.[/quote

 

This isn't actually quite true. I claim JSA and they are aware that I can't do a full days work. I think there is a lower limit (might be 16 hours) that you must be able to work. However, if you have a disability which affects your ability to work, you can ask that you only find jobs where you work x amount of hours.

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It's very hard not to panic lol. When I was at JSA before trying to claim ESA, the man who I was signing with told me about a job. i couldnt him I wouldnt be able to do that because Iv just been diagnosed with an illness which prevents me from doing any work like that. He then said to me that "if I cannot do the jobs being offered then I cannot sign on. Simple as that!" I then had to go and see my advisor who told me the same thing. I dunno, maybe its just one less person claiming JSA. Can anybody tell me how I go about making a new claim please? Thank you so much guys

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No they haven't changed it, they're misinformed, try again, though you may have to wait until your old claim is closed or complete a paper claim.

 

Tell them its 6 months from the initial decision refusing you ESA, they should check with their supervisor, as they are contrvening social security law not allowing you to make a claim. Make sure you take their name at the start of call and note the time and date in case you need to complain later.

 

Link that may help:

 

http://www.cpag.org.uk/cro/wrb/wrb213/ESA.htm

Edited by leemack
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  • 3 months later...

Hi, Kelcou, I'm quoting two of your posts, and hope I've understood you right - but could you spell it out for me in no uncertain terms, lol! I have my tribunal on 1st December (oh, Christmas joy!) and I want to know that if I fail it can I walk straight out of the court and reclaim ESA at the basic rate, for the same condition, pending a further tribunal application/appeal?

 

I'm scared that if I'm failed I'll have to go straight across to JSA.

 

If I can re-claim ESA do I use the same form as before when I appealed my medical assessment? I think if was GL14 or something.

 

Thanks

 

Yes, I can confirm that on failing your tribunal and reapplying for ESA it is seen as a fresh claim and you start all over again. I'm awaiting my second tribunal and have, effectively, been on the assessment rate continuously since November 2009 ...

Rae

99% certain it is 6 months from the date of the [failed] medical. Hopefully someone more clued up than I can make that 100%. As soon as I failed my last tribunal I reapplied for ESA without problem and, if history repeats itself, will do so again ...

Rae

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Hiya I just wanted to say I really hope you win at the tribunal good luck... because Iv just failed my tribunal and was just told I can't claim jobseekers allowence because i cant work and I need to re- apply for ESA I could scream because they stopped my ESA last week and now say its ok to claim it. I feel Like they have done this so they don't have to pay my backdated money .. I hope you get someone who is really understanding and understands your illness I think that was my problem the man didn't understand my illness.

 

good luck

Mandy

 

Now we get to the heart of the matter. They want to save money but they can't have people failing medicals and appeals then going onto JSA!

My God that'll push the unemployment figures through the roof!

 

"I know, we'll let them claim ESA again after 6 months, that way we still save lots of money. but the unemployment stays the same, or at least doesn't rise as much as it would.

Its a win win situation.":evil:

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