Solicitors using copy of Mums Will when she asked them to destroy it

[Johnny580]

My Mother died in June last year. She had telephoned the solicitor a year earlier and asked him to destroy the Will as she no longer wanted to use it. The solicitor destroyed it. (this is all documented and the solicitors have put this in writing).

 

The original Will left everything to one child (there are 4) and the solicitors as the executors. The original solicitor was taken over by a large firm #### ######. My brother and I found a copy of the will and at that point was not sure whether the original was still in existence. #### ###### asked us to send them a copy of the Will so they could compare it to the original. They later admitted they did not have the original nor did they have a copy but said that the original solicitor had not revoked the Will so they were going to give everything to one brother and act as executor.

 

I applied for probate as though my mum died intestate but they wrote to the probate registry to block the application. I have a caveat on the estate and #### ###### have made no attempts to apply for probate they say they will sit back until the siblings have sorted out their differences.

 

We are all in agreement that mum died intestate as she asked for the will to be destroyed. It was the solicitors obligation to advise her about revocation and he did not.

 

My brother has asked the solicitors to back off and accept that our mum died intestate but they are refusing. He has written a formal letter of complaint and will then go through the legal ombudsman and the sra but what can we do in the meantime?

 

The solicitors should never have started acting. They did at one point advise my brother that he should use the will as everything was left to him and they would ensure that he got everything. The solicitors supposedly act for the estate and therefore they are not allowed to advise a beneficiary.

 

The costs they are proposing to charge for work that they should not have carried out are extortionate. They say that we have to settle this so they can get probate as the house needs to be sold so they can get their costs.

 

Any advice?

Edited February 28, 2012 by the_shadow

[liquidauctions]

If you have a copy of the docuemntation regarding the the previous solicitors destroying the will then just send them a copy and state that you will use this as evidence if they dont stop acting in the next 14 days and also that it is a no cost oppurtunity and after that time you will issue proceedings and back date a charge of £2500 per day they starting acting on the will.

[pookeymonkey]

Sorry about your loss. Am going through the same at the moment but fortunately there is a very detailed will in my case.

 

Complaining to the SRA and Ombudsman is the right way to go and in the meantime I would write a very strong letter to #### ######. If you have evidence that the original will had been destroyed then they have acted fraudulently telling you they had the original and asking for a copy to compare to it, ask them why they did this and why they are acting as there is no instruction for them to act, as the original will had been destroyed.I cannot believe that they are trying to hold you to ransom using probate, that is so out of order.

 

Was the solicitors company or the solicitor them-self appointed by the will as that could be another angle to get rid of them, as they are not the original company you could check the legality of them taking over as solicitor in this case. But I think the most important thing is that the will was revoked in you mother's eyes and she no longer wanted it to be used.

One good thing is that your family all sound united on this, but a horrible stunt fro #### ###### to play to try and try and split the family by telling your brother they could get him everything - respect to him for turning them down.

One last thing could you claim against the solicitor who admitted destroying the will but according to #### ######(I would take this with a pinch of salt) did not properly revoke the will, I'm sure he might have something to say about their accusation.

 

Hope things work out for you and never give up!!!

 

Pookey

Edited February 28, 2012 by the_shadow
lets keep things factual.

[Johnny580]

I have attached a copy of an e-mail that a partner of #### ###### sent to my brother. They put the onus on our Mother that she did not revoke the Will but intended to do so.

 

I have read some of the threads regarding #### ###### and it would appear they are extremely vicious in the way they deal with people.

 

2 weeks after my Mother died my Father-in-Law died and #### ###### were telephoning me demanding that we take all my mother's belongings to their offices in Leeds. I explained the situation and it was irrelevant to them.

 

Does anyone have any ideas of how my brother could word a letter to them giving them notice that they are to stand down from acting. As you will all understand this is a very tricky company to deal with and they have no regard for our Mother's last wishes only their fees?

 

Our Mother made the original Will with #### ###### ####### and this firm was taken over by #### ###### 6 months after our Mother rang #### ###### to destroy the Will. Our Mother died in June and in July 2010 after #### ###### had been contacted they sent my Mother a letter informing her that the firm had now been taken over and welcoming her as a valued client!

 

You are already well aware of the facts of this matter but it is worth setting out some of them again here.

 

Your mother left a Will under the terms of which I am the executor.

 

In her lifetime it would appear that your mother intended to revoke that Will but for whatever reason did not do so.

 

In the absence of an order of the court, your mother’s Will should proceed to probate so that her estate can be distributed pursuant to its terms. Those terms say that you are to receive the residue of the estate. Your siblings are not to receive anything.

 

Your sister has placed a caveat on the estate of your late mother.

 

The caveat remains but cannot be left indefinitely.

 

It is difficult for me to assess what exactly is in the estate. However, your mother left a property . On the information available this appears to be the only or only significant asset. I do not have a formal valuation of this asset but it appears to be under the inheritance tax nil rate band threshold and not encumbered by mortgage.

 

As executor I take a neutral position in the dispute between you and your sister.

 

In effect under the terms of the Will, the house is to be sold, converted into cash and that money distributed to you less all of the testamentary expenses. Those expenses include legal costs.

 

Significant legal costs have been incurred throughout this process. It would seem that the only foreseeable way in which those costs are to be paid is from the proceeds of sale of the house. Because of the caveat, the house presently cannot be sold.

 

Provision must be made for those legal costs.

 

The administration of the estate remains in limbo.

 

At some stage of this process, you instructed solicitors to advise you. I strongly recommend that you return to them or some other independent solicitor for advice as to your position. They should then write to me with their suggestion for a constructive way of resolving these issues – including how our costs are to be paid.

 

I am forwarding a copy of this email to your sister’s solicitors.

Edited February 28, 2012 by the_shadow

[Johnny580]

As you can see the partner of#### ###### is telling us that we have to sell the house so we can pay the costs that they have drummed up - their fees are absolutely extortionate as well.

Edited February 28, 2012 by the_shadow

[liquidauctions]

Is there any plausible chance that the will revoking didnt go through fully and it was just suggested but not completed?

[Johnny580]

No the Will was definitely destroyed by#### ######. #### ###### have confirmed that they have a telephone note on the file to say that our Mother telephoned him and asked him to destroy the Will, that she didn't want it used and she would eventually make another one somewhere else.

 

#### ###### should have explained to my Mother that the Will had to be "revoked" i.e. he had to destroy it in her presence of she had to destroy it herself. He didn't give her any advice just destroyed it.

 

#### ###### asked me to send them a copy and told me they had the original when they already knew it had been destroyed. They have later confirmed this but then told my brother that the whole estate was his and he should claim it and they should act as executors.

 

This has caused alot of friction but now my brother has concluded that the Will should have been revoked and #### ###### were using him somewhat so they could be executors of the estate.

 

They will take no responsibility for the actions of #### ###### even though they have incorporated that firm into their own and his actions are covered under their professional indemnity insurance.

 

Ultimately my brother wants them to concede that they have no right to be executors to the estate and our Mother did die intestate.

Edited February 28, 2012 by the_shadow

[liquidauctions]

Do you have aything in writing about destroying the will?

[Johnny580]

Yes #### ###### have confirmed that #### ###### destroyed the original Will as per our Mother's instructions but they say as it was not revoked (even though it was their error not my Mother's) so they reckon they are legally entitled to be executors.

Edited February 28, 2012 by the_shadow

[Johnny580]

In addition, I have already established that myself and my remaining siblings have a claim against #### ###### for professional negligence. However the problem is that the one remaining sibling is battling with #### ###### to stand down from the Will as they are not legally entitled to act as executor but are making out that they are. I made an application for probate as though my mother died intestate - #### ###### wrote to the probate registry blocking the application - can my brother ask for a copy of that letter - #### ###### have not made an application themselves they say as there is a dispute between siblings they cannot apply - which is completel rubbish. I have a caveat on the estate and they have not "warned me off" as I would have expected.

Edited February 28, 2012 by the_shadow

[liquidauctions]

I cant advise you legally where you stand, It LOOKS like you have a good case. I would get the ball rolling by writing to #### and give them a timeline to act, Attach the relevent letters

Edited February 28, 2012 by the_shadow

[Guest]

.........their fees are absolutely extortionate as well.

 

you can get their fees assessed.

 

was the will destroyed in her presence? it seems that, unless there is any other form of poss revocation, then revocation by destruction can only occur in the presence of the testator (with their direction and intent) Wills Act s20? (ironically, (AFAIK) in general, unless there is evidence to the contrary, if a last known will cannot be found then it would be presumed to have been destroyed with intention to revoke!)

otherwise, it seems then that it/any recompense may rest on whether the solicitor acted competently? ie should've requested her presence when destroying?

also, check how long your caveat lasts for and whether it needs to be renewed?

imo

Edited February 18, 2011 by Ford
typ

[Johnny580]

you can get their fees assessed.

 

was the will destroyed in her presence? it seems that, unless there is any other form of poss revocation, then revocation by destruction can only occur in the presence of the testator (with their direction and intent) Wills Act s20? (ironically, (AFAIK) in general, unless there is evidence to the contrary, if a last known will cannot be found then it would be presumed to have been destroyed with intention to revoke!)

otherwise, it seems then that it/any recompense may rest on whether the solicitor acted competently? ie should've requested her presence when destroying?

also, check how long your caveat lasts for and whether it needs to be renewed?

imo

 

The Will was not destroyed in her presence - the solicitor just destroyed it. The solicitor has been negligent in not carrying revocation or explaining it. The problem is that the solicitor asked us for a copy of the Will to compare against the original when the solicitor did not have the original at all. The solicitor lied to get his hands on the will so he could then stand firm and say he was the executor. The is insisting that Mum left a Will and appointed him/his firm as executor which is completely untrue. These solicitors have no scruples whatsoever. He has now written to his MP, he has started the complaints procedure with the solicitor and will proceed with the legal ombudsman when the complaints procedure is complete. I have looked on the internet about "removing an executor" and it all seems really helpful. Thanks for all your comments. It would appear that this firm of solicitors and their heavy handed bully tactics are not just in one area of law!

[Ganymede]

Did you resolve this in the end?

[Johnny580]

Kind of, I can't disclose the details unfortunately, that is why I need to remove#### ###### and #### ###### from the thread.

Edited February 28, 2012 by the_shadow

[the_shadow]

As requested I've removed the details of the solicitor involved at the request of the OP.

 

S.

[ScarletPimpernel]

You missed one occurrence; I've edited it.

 

In doing so, I noted that the senior partner of this repellent gang is very well known on CAG for his connection to a DCA. In light of this the appalling behaviour of the firm over this will comes as no surprise.

 

If ever proof we're needed that the legal profession shouldn't regulate itself, this creature and his colleagues would be part of it.

[the_shadow]

Thanks SP, yep self-regulation is always a joke, I've yet to see one single existing self-regulator that can effectively and impartially manage complaints or provide justice when wrongdoings occur.

 

S.