Request for help in plain English! Credit Card Agreements

[bowershall]

Hi all

 

I just thought I would ask for help!

I followed the guides and links as best I could regarding credit card agreements and there legality.

I have received three replies from all three contacted.

 

mbna have responded as follows:

enclosed:

a. A copy of your executed agreement.

(A photocopy of the application form)

b.Current terms and conditions.

(As described)

c. A copy of my most recent statement.

(Signed by someone from mbna)

 

My questions are;

Does the application , signed by me as an applicant count as a valid credit agreement?

Does the up to date statement, signed by someone else, confirm a legally valid debt?

 

 

RBS Card 1

enclosed:

 

a. letter claiming that in respect of the CCA copy document regulations. "The 'true' copy requirement can be satisfied by providing a copy agreement at the date the card agreement was made and providing that plus a copy of the current terms of the card agreement."

 

b. A copy of the signed application form.

 

c. A copy of current terms and conditions.

 

d. A copy of the terms of agreement (Unsigned) at the time they claim the agreement was made.

 

e. A copy of the current statement (signed by someone from RBS)

 

RBS Card 2

enclosed:

 

a. letter claiming that in respect of the CCA copy document regulations. "The 'true' copy requirement can be satisfied by providing a copy agreement at the date the card agreement was made and providing that plus a copy of the current terms of the card agreement."

 

b. A copy of current terms and conditions.

 

c. A copy of the terms of agreement (Unsigned) at the time they claim the agreement was made.

 

d. A copy of the current statement (signed by someone from RBS)

*Note no signed application or agreement

My questions relating to RBS are:

 

Is their quoted claim correct regarding providing a 'true' copy that meets the CCA copy document regulations, true?

Do they need in the case of card 2 to provide a signed contract agreement or application?

 

I'm sorry, I am new to all this and do not know where else to ask. Any help and advise will be appreciated.

 

Bowershall

[bowershall]

Sorry,

 

I urgently need help on this matter. Have I posted in the wrong section?

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

I've moved this thread to a Forum where you should get more help.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[dadofholly]

Would be easier to assess if you was able to scan and upload the docs, removing any personal details and account numbers.

 

Sometimes with these agreements it can be whats on them as much as what is not on them that makes them unenforceable - but the rough details you have supplied suggests they may have complied with a CCA request.

[diddydicky]

an application form would only be valid as an agreement if it contained your signature and the prescribed terms of the agreement within the signature document

[diddydicky]

RBS (D) should have your name and address as at the time the agreement was entered into

[diddydicky]

RBS 2 © - as above

[diddydicky]

there is no obligation on a creditor to provide the signatures or signature boxes- but you must ask yourself why if they have not- since if they were copying the original agreement- why go to the trouble of editing out the sigs

[dadofholly]

Ref: RBS

 

Was this for two seperate card applications or a roll over from one card to another? Could explain why there is only one app form.

 

To re-iterate - we can only guess if the App forms would comply or not, without view of them.

[nicklea]

there is no obligation on a creditor to provide the signatures or signature boxes- but you must ask yourself why if they have not- since if they were copying the original agreement- why go to the trouble of editing out the sigs

 

They don't 'edit out the sigs' they just print off a document showing all the terms that are relevant to the agreement. They do this because it's a lot easier and cheaper to do that rather than have to dig the original agreement out of the archives.

[diddydicky]

that may well be- but without sight of the original document- they cannot (see oft guidance) make a claim that what they produce is a true copy of the original!

 

the EASIEST way for a creditor to respond is to send a screen shot of their microfiche record

 

more often than not- the creditor will have microfiched the front of the agreement/application form and destroyed the original without copying anything on the reverse side

 

thus a copy of the microfiche which is what the creditor usually sends- is a copy of a copy - not a copy of the orginal and you would have lots of questions as to who what where when why how this record was produced- who copied the orginal how they disposed of it- what the company procedure was , etc etc

 

if it is typed out and not a microfiche copy - it is a fair bet that they do not even have a microfiche copy!

 

also the VAST majority of agreements will have been varied- and so the creditor is obliged to forward copies of the agreement as varied AND a true copy of the original enabling agreement "in its original form" in order to comply with s78