interim charging order

[pushbike]

I unsuccessfully defended a ccj last year against howard cohen a credit card debt for £1900 . the judge ordered the amount but did not specify any monthly payt etc. howard cohen have now applied for an interim charging order on my property can i do anything to avoid this - will they accept an agreed monthly payment now. any advise please as i cannot afford to pay the £1900 but can make a small monthly payment

[jimbo45]

Hi there

 

Howard - Cohen --what a suprise --another of CL Finance / The Lewis Group / Cattles so called henchmen.

 

I don't know why DCA's etc are still going down this pointless route of a CO for these types of debts. First since your debt is covered via the various CCA's then NO INTEREST can be added to the amount on the charging order -- Note here NO INTEREST CAN BE ADDED TO THE AMOUNT ON THE CHARGING ORDER AFTER ITS GRANTED. Interest between CCJ and date of Charging order can be allowed if its in the CCJ. After CO it STOPS DEAD.

If they attempt to say the CO allows interest to continue to accrue then the CO sn't been properly executed and can be SET ASIDE.

 

In any case there has to have been an initial CCJ which has then itself been defaulted on before they can go for CO's.

 

However if you defended a CCJ then presumably the CCJ does NOT exist. If it does there must be conditions on it that you have not complied with.

 

BEFORE OFFERING ANY MONEY TO THESE PARASITES CHECK THE STATUS OF THE CCJ --does it exist or not. If it does and there is no fixed amount to be paid then you can't have broken any agreement so no CO.

 

Do if you have grounds for defending the CO do it . Others on this Forum can advise on defending in this case or if its too late having the CO set aside.

After the Interim they have to go back to court and make it final.

 

Now on a 1900 GBP they would be TOTALLY LAUGHED OUT OF COURT if they took any further action -- they will just have to sit this one out until you decide to move or sell say in 30 years time --meanwhile the debt is valuless -- inflation etc having taken its toll.

 

If they do have legal grounds for a CO then I'd just let them do it and THEN offer them a full and final of say 800 GBP -- some of these companies would rather have the 800 GBP in a short space of time than wait 20 years for an ever diminishing debt.

 

The courts these days in any case don't really like the use of CO's for CREDIT CARD and other "smallish" bits of Consumer debt-- although currently its still within the law so a judge has to comply if the conditions are valid. Moves are afoot to ban this practice for debts of under 25,000 GBP but we are still waiting on this one.

 

Don't get scared of a CO -- in most cases whilst its annoying at least it stops INTEREST. A properly executed SD is a far more potent weapon which while can be tackled needs a LOT more work on your part generally so at least be thankful they haven't gone down this route yet.

 

Incidentally CL tend to buy whole parcels of debt - you can estimate what they paid for your debt by estimating the value of the "debt" in the portfolio against the value they paid for it and then break down the mean value.

 

I would be very surprised if your actual "1900" GBP debt cost them any more than about 25 GBP -- if even that. Sometimes these debts are sold for literally Pennies in the pound -- a totally EVIL and IMMORAL trade -- and its usually the lowest of the low who end up in these types of businesses.

 

I really have been totally surprised at how I've seen the so called Debt Collection "Industry" treat people who usually though no fault of their own have got into these circumstances while the Banks etc have been benefiting HUGELY at the taxpayers expense.

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited February 12, 2011 by jimbo45
Clarify Interest on CO-- Up to CO date Interest CAN be added if in CCJ

[pushbike]

Hi Thanks Jimbo - feel a bit better - I tried my hardest to defend CCA and at least the judge did not award them any costs because of the shoddy way they had acted in sending correspondence.

I am being really ignorant here but can you explain what a SD is and what it means

 

Thanks

[jimbo45]

Hi there an SD is a Statuatory Demand which basically means just that -- the Creditor can Demand money without further ado IMMEDIATELY or they can apply to make you Bankrupt. They DON'T NEED TO GO TO COURT AGAIN TO GET THE MONEY.

 

Making you Bankrupt however costs the DCA's money so its usually more of a nasty threat than a real possibility -- still an SD is a LEGAL document and YOU MUST DEAL WITH IT -- fortunately in the few cases where people actually get presented with these there are plenty of grounds for getting them squashed since the delivery of an SD has to be carried out by quite strict and correct legal procedures.

 

In your case if you can't realistically defend the CO just let them go for it and hope they make a mistake of allowing Interest to accumulate to the amount on the CO -- then you can say "Little round objects" to them and get the CO lifted.

 

If they do it correctly just sit there for say half a year -- don't pay them anything -- pay off any other pressing creditors or try and build up a cash reserve. Then offer them a full and Final --

 

You are in a better haggling position than you possibly realize here. As I said these companies got SO GREEDY they thought getting a CO would be a sure fire way of getting their full debt paid back quickly -- they wrongfully assumed everybody moves house every 5 mins.

 

In the current state of the housing market they will have to wait a VERY LONG TIME INDEED to get paid. If they send nasty letter about "Forced Sale" just laugh -- No court would allow an entire home to be forceably flogged of for less credit card debt than the value of a fairly mediocre used car.

 

Cheers

jimbo

[rockwell304]

would be very surprised if your actual "1900" GBP debt cost them any more than about 25 GBP -- if even that. Sometimes these debts are sold for literally Pennies in the pound -- a totally EVIL and IMMORAL trade -- and its usually the lowest of the low who end up in these types of businesses.

 

Jimbo, I recall a poster on CAG some time ago mentioning they managed to find out how much a debt purchaser paid Barclaycard for their debt - it was the princely sum of 3%! Not sure how they achieved this, or if it is correct.

[jimbo45]

Hi there

 

Excuse the slight drift of the post here verging on to Off Topic but in order to answer previous posters question this bit of info needs to be understood.

 

You need to understand a bit about "Derivatives" trading on the exchanges to get to the bottom of these -- but essentally a "Derivative" is essentially buying "an Option" in the "Asset" without actually OWNING the underlying asset.

 

In Stock exchange parlance you are trading the DERIVATIVE of the asset not the actual UNDERLYING ASSET ITSELF.

 

For example you could sell someone the "Right to buy your car at 4000 GBP any time within the next 6 months" and for this the person buying the right would pay you say 300 GBP. The person doesn't actually have to BUY your car but he can "Execise his right" any time until the option expires. You get to keep the 300 GBP whatever happens. If you sell the car you get the sale price agreed 4000 GBP.

 

So what you have done here is traded in the right to buy your car -- not traded in the actual car itself. The option derivative here is your Car.

 

This is known on the market as "Covered Calls / Puts " and are used also a lot in Hedge Fund trading.

 

Now debt buying works the same way -- the debts are parcelled up into a "Derivative" and sold by the Bank to the DCA / Debt collection company. What the Debt company has done is to pay the Bank for the right to deal in the underlying "Securities" in the Fund -- the nominal debts that the bank wants to be shot of.

 

As far as the "Financial Markets" are concerned its a win win situation since the Banks are shot of their "Non Performing debts" while the GREEDY DCA's have the right to obtain the "debts" for anything they can extort out of their usually hapless victims.

 

By reading various Stock exchange sources one can glean what these "Funds" trade for and applying fairly basic mathematics can come up with a realistic "guess" of what people like CL Finance / Capquest or others actually paid for your debt.

 

1% to 5% is pretty par for the course for this type of "Market" -- depending on how bad the banks think the debt is.

 

Sorry for on a DEBT managing Forum explaining a bit about how the Stock Market works -- but if you understand where these VISCIOUS companies are coming from you can see why they WILL spend a little bit extra money in going as far as possible to retrieve their money

 

If they think that say for a debt they purchased for 25 GBP even paying 2 or 3 hundred pounds in court costs etc makes it for them a worthwhile investment if they think they will gain several THOUSAND pounds at the end of it.

 

 

You have to distinguish between a basic "Debt collection Service" who in most cases you can see off and those who actually PURCHASED your debt.

 

Really horrible but true which is why you should do ANYTHING legally in your powers to thwart this whole NASTY, STINKING ROTTEN business.

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited February 12, 2011 by jimbo45

[pushbike]

Hi Jimbo, thanks again for your advise I will try to hang on in there. Would you be so kind to look at my other new thread - i have looked on this forum to try and follow the right course of action . I just know from reading the other posts that the POC on my relatives form are very vague and wondered if I should still send off the usual CPR request when the POC does not mention any agreement just an account. It is definitely not a bank overdraft account or any other bank account debt.

Thanks

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?294062-cpr-18-request-needed-please-advise

[jimbo45]

Hi there

Before you can even defend this you want to get the actual POC -- waht are they going to Court for.

 

If its debt subject to the various CCA's then you need to get a copy of the CCA to make sure that it IS your debt -- they MUST produce the a valid document if you want to defend the claim.

 

If the amount on the Court claim looks supiciously different to what you think it should be then get an SAR from the original creditor.

 

The fact that they aren't using Northampton to pursue a CCJ leads me to a suspicion this might be for something like non payment of a parking fine etc.

 

A Council tax problem won't go to County Court either -- a Liability order granted in a Magistrates Court is the first point of call for these types of problems.

 

Without knowing what the CCJ is FOR it's hard to suggest a line of defence. In any case whatever the debt is ALWAYS make the person or organisation hassling you prove that it's actually YOUR debt -- AND THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO COLLECT IT.

 

Anybody can say XXXX have told me to collect a debt of YYYY -- this has as much validity as my Grandmothers cat asking for the same thing.

 

Cheers

jimbo