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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times. ×


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      Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.
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HFO.......Why are they so horrid.

tracyd

By tracyd
in Debt Collection Agencies

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coledog

coledog

Posted
Posted

Just seen reply from Coledog....so the CCA route to HFO would be the best thing to start with??

 

I would, just my view, as the account was not put in dispute with MS and lets see what HFO come back with. It may be the same document and then you can challenge it as it is an application form. They may not locate it at all.

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FORMISTER

FORMISTER

Posted
Posted

I don't feel strongly about it either way. If the agreements unenforcable, it's unenforacable. If a DCA thinks they can enforce it , they will take you to court whether you have sent an account in dispute letter or not. They will state they have fullfilled their requirements. Then it's up to the Judge to decide.

 

As you have already sent a CCA to the OC and received the results, a CCA to HFO will only act as a delaying tactic. Although you will receive a current statement of account.

 

It's entirely up to you

My advice is given through personal experience and is given without prejudice

 

 

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coledog

coledog

Posted
Posted

Good points Formister, I don't mind either way. The important thing is to challenge this and the appalling behaviour of HFO.

 

Tracyd if you can scan the whole form it would be great

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PriorityOne

PriorityOne

Posted
Posted

 

She sent one back stating that The CC Regulations 1983 stated that an agreement suppiled should be a true copy Regulation 3(2) states that a copy may omit certain information such as the signature box and signatures and date.

 

It was then passed to Credit Solutions, then HFO and thats when the harrassment started. I dont know why I arranged a payment plan but I do not have hardly any paperwork from HFO certainly no NOA. It was then passed to Turnbull Rutherford. The orginal debt as of 18th April 2007 was £ 4332.41. When Turnbull wrote to me in Sept 2007 it was £6909.72 and as of today it stands at £7630.28. Thats £3297.87 in interest in guessing..

 

Im grateful for any advise. Should I CCA HFO and see what they have for starters.

Thank you.:-) Im trying not to worry but thats prob why I am writing this post at 02.50am.

 

This does not sound like an enforceable Agreement at all....

 

 

I don't feel strongly about it either way. If the agreements unenforcable, it's unenforacable. If a DCA thinks they can enforce it , they will take you to court whether you have sent an account in dispute letter or not. They will state they have fullfilled their requirements. Then it's up to the Judge to decide.

 

As you have already sent a CCA to the OC and received the results, a CCA to HFO will only act as a delaying tactic. Although you will receive a current statement of account.

 

It's entirely up to you

 

Formister is right; it is entirely up to you how you proceed with this, although personally, I'd be inclined to submit a fresh CCA request after this amount of time passing with you acknowledging the account with payments.

 

Should this then end up in court (which I doubt), it would look better on your part. It also makes the paper trail from now on much clearer for you and for us.

 

:-)

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FORMISTER

FORMISTER

Posted
Posted

I think then Tracy, for the purpose of clarity you should submit a new CCA request to HFO. As it will only cost you £1 plus postage, there is no harm in doing so.

 

I think CD, P1 and Myself are in agreement that what was provided under your last CCA request would be very difficult to enforce in court and HFO are unlikely to try.

 

However, I would like to point out that not paying, even if the agreement is unenforcable, does not mean that they cannot continue to update your credit report. So bear this in mind.

 

Saying that, if you had sent a CCA in 2007, you must of defaulted sometime before, so the default can't be far off of dropping off your credit report anyway

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My advice is given through personal experience and is given without prejudice

 

 

If I Have helped please feel free to click the star

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dadofholly

dadofholly

Posted
Posted

Tracy - would also consider if you should be paying them anything. As yet they have never sent you any proof they actually own the debt. Have you received a Notice of Assignement?

 

Am sure they will already have marked your credit file so not much benefit for you there in continuing to pay.

 

You say you sent off for an SAR in 2007, did MS tell you who, and when the debt was to?

 

If not would suggest you get in touch with them to find out.

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tracyd

tracyd

Posted
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Posted

Thank you for your help. I will send off a CCA request to HFO and see what they have. I will carry on paying the £20. I will post up the document i got from Morgan Stanley asap. My router is not allowing me onto the net....so I am doing this off my phone.

Thank you again.

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DonkeyB

DonkeyB

Posted
Posted

The point is that you are paying to the company you were led to believe owned this account. If you can establish that they have no right to collect, that’s when to stop. Looks best in court, if it gets there!

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tracyd

tracyd

Posted
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Posted (edited)

Finally got back on the internet:-D.....so today I CCA'd HFO just to see what they have. Warned hubby not to speak to anyone and put the phone down.

 

I have also uploaded what I received from Morgan Stanley when I requested my CCA. On the back of the document it has written on in pen. I certify this is a true copy of an orginal document.

 

Please have a look and tell me what you think. Hope I have done it right this time.:pray:

 

Regards

Tracyd

Edited by tracyd
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coledog

coledog

Posted
Posted

Tracyd

 

You will need to re-edit your post and delete the doc as some of the details on the form (page 1) are still visible. See if you can cover them better and re-post.

 

It looks like an application form that only includes some of the T&Cs.

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FORMISTER

FORMISTER

Posted
Posted
You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment.

 

DB, everyone knows your a renound supporter of HFO and can often be found sipping snapps at the xmas party's

My advice is given through personal experience and is given without prejudice

 

 

If I Have helped please feel free to click the star

:smile:

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PriorityOne

PriorityOne

Posted
Posted

Hang on a minute folks....

 

If those t&cs are part of the same signature document, then this looks like an Agreement to me. Check out the figures in the t&c doc....

 

If it's a microfiche (which it looks like)..... you could challenge it on the basis that it's a copy of a copy.... but it's hard to say what response you'll get at this stage.

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coledog

coledog

Posted
Posted (edited)

As we are finding out, there is more to challenging HFO and their right to collect the sum they claim than the credit agreement. It is only part of the story

Edited by coledog

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coledog

coledog

Posted
Posted (edited)

Actually looking at this again, the T&Cs are only part of - it actually says:

 

'below are some of the conditions in the MSDW Card Conditions. The definitions and other conditions refered to are set out in full in your copy of the MSDW conditions'

 

 

 

 

Edited by coledog

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broken arrow

broken arrow

Posted
Posted

You can argue that the Terms and Conditions are not there, as those are the financial and related conditions, the prescribed terms are there, but point 2 credit limit, does not give an actual credit limit.

 

From memory, Morgan Stanley changed there minimum payment from 2% to 3 %, would that be varying the agreement.

US President Barack Obama referred to Ugland House as the biggest building in the world or the biggest tax SCA* in the world.

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tracyd

tracyd

Posted
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Posted

Right well just answered the phone to someone from HFO (didnt know it was them). They stated that they had received a letter and it had not been signed. I replied

"It doesnt need to be signed." (had typed name as per advice from here) They were clearly not happy by this and said

"Why does it not need to be signed"?

"Who has put you up to this"!!!!!!!!!!

I said please put everything in writing and hung up.

I guess they got my CCA request. :wink:

 

Thanks again for your advice.

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