Pioneer travel [problem] PLEASE HELP

[Betsy 8]

No it is a holiday club

As below

 

Myself and my husband were in Benidorm between the 16th 23rd December.

On the 21st we were approached by someone in the town who asked us where we were staying and if we were enjoying it etc. She then said pick a ticket out of an envelope. The prize was a bottle of wine, she then said "Oh go on pick another" It was a Gold ticket which she got very excited about and jumped up and down saying we have either won a £1000 euros or a holiday for 4.

She scooped us up into a taxi and took us across town. We were welcomed by a women who said she wont keep us a minute and then took us into a room. we were sat at a desk with a women who gave us great quotes on reduced cost hols comared to what we normally pay.

Become a life member of Pioneer Trave club for £5995 you will make your money back in the first few years. There was a deposit of £1000. We did not have that money or afford the lifetime membership. She reduced it to 10 yrs at £3995 and £500 deposit. We stupidly agreed and paid the deposit on Debit card owing £3495 which they were going to get a Finance company to contact us to arrange paying them the £3495 then paying the finance £64 a month.

 

On our return to England we looked up the club to see lots of forums calling it a [problem].

It was Xmas so I did not check the back of the contract immediatly. When I did I found the cool off period was 7 days in writing. Well Xmas was here and it would not of got to Spain in time. We had missed the deadline. We e mailed the company and said we would not be paying the rest of the £3495 or go into any agreement with the finance company. We said we understand we forgo the deposit.

They have now said they will persue us for the £3495 through a UK debt collector and they always follow through agreements made that are after the cool off period.

WHAT DO I DO NEXT HELP

[twofoot]

Do nothing and just sit tight till they contact you again then update this thread. DO NOT speak to them on the phone under any circumstances. If you do they will pressure you and intimidate you, writing only. Debt collectors have absolutely NO legal powers over you.

Steve

[twofoot]

Do nothing and just sit tight till they contact you again then update this thread. DO NOT speak to them on the phone under any circumstances. If you do they will pressure you and intimidate you, writing only. Debt collectors have absolutely NO legal powers over you.

Steve

[saintly_1]

Two threads merged please keep to one thread to avoid confusion and enable others to see the whole picture

[saintly_1]

Two threads merged please keep to one thread to avoid confusion and enable others to see the whole picture

[Alain]

Do nothing and just sit tight till they contact you again then update this thread. DO NOT speak to them on the phone under any circumstances. If you do they will pressure you and intimidate you, writing only. Debt collectors have absolutely NO legal powers over you.

Steve

 

Steve

I have had a few letters from them now and they give you a date to reply by but before that date is up they send another letter giving you a few more days but with threats of federal Management Ltd Fees and charges that I will be liable for. I have only written to them (no verbal Contact) and I have told them that the agreement was cancelled and to stop the Harassment. I have given them 7 days in which to accept the cancellation without further charges.

The default notice was dated 24.1.11 received on 27.1.11 and replied to 28.1.11 We had until 1.2.11 to reply, but there was a follow up letter sent out 27.1.11 with another one on way also emails received with threats.

I have spoken to the European Consumer Centre United Kingdom(ECC) on 08456 04 05 03 I spoke to a lady called Laura. If you or anyone speaks to her give a reference number of 87273 and this will build a bad picture of Pioneer Travel and their underhanded methods.

 

Alan

 

Alain

[Alain]

Do nothing and just sit tight till they contact you again then update this thread. DO NOT speak to them on the phone under any circumstances. If you do they will pressure you and intimidate you, writing only. Debt collectors have absolutely NO legal powers over you.

Steve

 

Steve

I have had a few letters from them now and they give you a date to reply by but before that date is up they send another letter giving you a few more days but with threats of federal Management Ltd Fees and charges that I will be liable for. I have only written to them (no verbal Contact) and I have told them that the agreement was cancelled and to stop the Harassment. I have given them 7 days in which to accept the cancellation without further charges.

The default notice was dated 24.1.11 received on 27.1.11 and replied to 28.1.11 We had until 1.2.11 to reply, but there was a follow up letter sent out 27.1.11 with another one on way also emails received with threats.

I have spoken to the European Consumer Centre United Kingdom(ECC) on 08456 04 05 03 I spoke to a lady called Laura. If you or anyone speaks to her give a reference number of 87273 and this will build a bad picture of Pioneer Travel and their underhanded methods.

 

Alan

 

Alain

[Mr Worried]

I cant believe you even contenplated this ' Con ' nevermind handing money over, lets blame it on the sun eh!

 

Mr, I need some double glazing, but not from YOU! because I dont like your suit.

[Mr Worried]

I cant believe you even contenplated this ' Con ' nevermind handing money over, lets blame it on the sun eh!

 

Mr, I need some double glazing, but not from YOU! because I dont like your suit.

[Alain]

Thanks. If you have nothing constructive to say say nothing.

 

Alan

[Alain]

Thanks. If you have nothing constructive to say say nothing.

 

Alan

[cerberusalert]

The default notice is not worth the paper it's printed on, the agreement was made in Spain and subject to Spanish law and cannot be registered on your UK credit file.

 

There are reciprocal agreements between EU member states where cross border actions can be made, but to be heard in the UK it would have to be done using Spanish law. Given the fact that any legal representation they use must be knowledgeable in both UK & Spanish law the initial expense to them would likely be prohibitive

 

They are willy waving. .

 

See this sticky; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?250889-Can-I-Be-Sued-For-An-Overseas-Debt

[cerberusalert]

The default notice is not worth the paper it's printed on, the agreement was made in Spain and subject to Spanish law and cannot be registered on your UK credit file.

 

There are reciprocal agreements between EU member states where cross border actions can be made, but to be heard in the UK it would have to be done using Spanish law. Given the fact that any legal representation they use must be knowledgeable in both UK & Spanish law the initial expense to them would likely be prohibitive

 

They are willy waving. .

 

See this sticky; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?250889-Can-I-Be-Sued-For-An-Overseas-Debt

[twofoot]

Having given this subject a bit of thought as I have lived in Spain for 10 years or so, I'd like to point out my thoughts. For a contract to be valid in Spain it needs to be written in Spanish although it may be accompanied by an English translation. I find it hard to see that a Brit would sign something they couldn't read and reading this thread leads me to believe the contract was in English. That being the case a Spanish court could not rule on a contract not in their own language. The finance company may well persue the debt in the UK but how would they enforce it. I cannot see how they could, it has already be said that the contract was signed in Spain. I just cannot see any way the contract can be enforced, either in Spain or in the UK. I have previously signed contracts here in Spain and they are always in Spanish because they have to be, though I have be presented with a certified translation.

Someintersting reading here at the link dated 2007.

 

So it seems that there is little or no protection and the only safety net will be a flawed contract.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6730691.stm

 

Also I found this so the law is not yet changed.

Unlike timeshare agreements, there is no specific European legislation related to holiday clubs. In fact holiday clubs were specifically designed to circumvent Directive 94/47/EC on timeshare agreements. The lack of regulation of Holiday Clubs means that they are not covered by rules on cooling-off periods, deposits and consumer information. Consequently, consumers who sign up under pressure have little scope to change their mind.

 

In order to close this gap in protection, European Directive 2008/122/EC was approved last year and will extend the scope of the 1994 EU Timeshare Directive to cover new products which have emerged on the market, like discount holiday clubs. This Directive has not yet been transposed into National Law by the member states and the deadline given by the Directive to do so is 23rd February 2011.

Edited February 9, 2011 by twofoot

[twofoot]

Having given this subject a bit of thought as I have lived in Spain for 10 years or so, I'd like to point out my thoughts. For a contract to be valid in Spain it needs to be written in Spanish although it may be accompanied by an English translation. I find it hard to see that a Brit would sign something they couldn't read and reading this thread leads me to believe the contract was in English. That being the case a Spanish court could not rule on a contract not in their own language. The finance company may well persue the debt in the UK but how would they enforce it. I cannot see how they could, it has already be said that the contract was signed in Spain. I just cannot see any way the contract can be enforced, either in Spain or in the UK. I have previously signed contracts here in Spain and they are always in Spanish because they have to be, though I have be presented with a certified translation.

Someintersting reading here at the link dated 2007.

 

So it seems that there is little or no protection and the only safety net will be a flawed contract.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6730691.stm

 

Also I found this so the law is not yet changed.

Unlike timeshare agreements, there is no specific European legislation related to holiday clubs. In fact holiday clubs were specifically designed to circumvent Directive 94/47/EC on timeshare agreements. The lack of regulation of Holiday Clubs means that they are not covered by rules on cooling-off periods, deposits and consumer information. Consequently, consumers who sign up under pressure have little scope to change their mind.

 

In order to close this gap in protection, European Directive 2008/122/EC was approved last year and will extend the scope of the 1994 EU Timeshare Directive to cover new products which have emerged on the market, like discount holiday clubs. This Directive has not yet been transposed into National Law by the member states and the deadline given by the Directive to do so is 23rd February 2011.

[Betsy 8]

Two feet is the thread above telling us we have not got any hope as the law on 23rd Feb was not in when we agreed terms or they can do nothing?

Betsy

[sequenci]

For a contract to be valid in Spain it needs to be written in Spanish although it may be accompanied by an English translation

 

Is that written into Spanish law? That's quite interesting if so.

[Alain]

Many letters have been exchanged between myself and Pioneer Travel (Barry Marsh). Letters have been sent every few days but they are posted in the UK. Barry Marsh does not give you time to answer but today have received letter from Federal Management Debt collectors and they have added £800 to what I was supposed to owe. This is obviously a disputed account so can they get involved. Advice please.

 

Alain

 

Alan Blacker

[Betsy 8]

Hi We had exactly the same letter today with £900 added to it.

I am going to ignore it still taking the advice of all the fine people I have seeked help from including this site and travel advisor forum.

I am sure we both feel as vulnerable as each other.

I still dont want these people to win so hang in there and we will beat the b*****ds

Great regards

[twofoot]

Looks like they are or already have given up.

[dx100uk]

two threads merged on same subject

 

dx

[DARRELL2416]

Myself and my husband were in Benidorm between the 16th 23rd December.

On the 21st we were approached by someone in the town who asked us where we were staying and if we were enjoying it etc. She then said pick a ticket out of an envelope. The prize was a bottle of wine, she then said "Oh go on pick another" It was a Gold ticket which she got very excited about and jumped up and down saying we have either won a £1000 euros or a holiday for 4.

She scooped us up into a taxi and took us across town. We were welcomed by a women who said she wont keep us a minute and then took us into a room. we were sat at a desk with a women who gave us great quotes on reduced cost hols comared to what we normally pay.

Become a life member of Pioneer Trave club for £5995 you will make your money back in the first few years. There was a deposit of £1000. We did not have that money or afford the lifetime membership. She reduced it to 10 yrs at £3995 and £500 deposit. We stupidly agreed and paid the deposit on Debit card owing £3495 which they were going to get a Finance company to contact us to arrange paying them the £3495 then paying the finance £64 a month.

 

On our return to England we looked up the club to see lots of forums calling it a [problem].

It was Xmas so I did not check the back of the contract immediatly. When I did I found the cool off period was 7 days in writing. Well Xmas was here and it would not of got to Spain in time. We had missed the deadline. We e mailed the company and said we would not be paying the rest of the £3495 or go into any agreement with the finance company. We said we understand we forgo the deposit.

They have now said they will persue us for the £3495 through a UK debt collector and they always follow through agreements made that are after the cool off period.

WHAT DO I DO NEXT HELP

 

My wife & i were spoofed just the same in July 2010.

Today 27/03/13 i have received a call from someone informing me that this company was dissolved in March 2011 & to stop direct debits immediately. They also informed me that i was entitled to ALL monies payed, including the deposit & they could get me it all back for a fee of £595.

What detered me was, she wanted my credit card number immediately. I refused to give my number & she gave me the details required to check them out.

She said she worked for a company called (SIP CAPITAL). i,ve checked this on companies house & it seems genuine. Anyway their details are on companies house if you want to check them out.

If you want more details please feel free to write.

DJW

Edited March 27, 2013 by ims21

[dx100uk]

My wife & i were spoofed just the same in July 2010.

Today 27/03/13 i have received a call from someone informing me that this company was dissolved in March 2011 & to stop direct debits immediately. They also informed me that i was entitled to ALL monies payed, including the deposit & they could get me it all back for a fee of £595.

What detered me was, she wanted my credit card number immediately. I refused to give my number & she gave me the details required to check them out.

She said she worked for a company called (SIP CAPITAL). i,ve checked this on companies house & it seems genuine. Anyway their details are on companies house if you want to check them out.

If you want more details please feel free to write.

DJW

 

spam ignore

 

dx

[donearunner]

I'm in SPain, and know these Holiday Clubs well. As mentioned, they're rebranded timeshare, and when someone rings and offers to sell your package, get your money back etc for a one-time fee, chances are they're sat in an office next to the people that sold it to you in the first place. It's a massive [problem]. As to what you do now, I would recommend sending a lawyer's letter and you'll probably hear no more from them.