Advent Computer Training (Barclays Partner Finance)

[lowdown]

Thanks for the update Fuzzbutt, and all the hard work.

Edited May 7, 2011 by lowdown

[Bluedo]

OKeydokey

Edited May 7, 2011 by Bluedo

[malchus25]

If the only thing left for us now is to take up individual court action after all this time then I'm a bit dissapointed. I HAVE NO MONEY!!!

[Fuzzbutt]

Thanks to everyone for your compliments and I'm sorry we haven't had something more solid and immediate.

 

Personally, I don't know an awful lot to be honest about small claims (or county court if the amount is over £5,000) or what happens if you lose a case, but I'm not throwing in the towel yet and intend to look into it. I just got a copy of the book CAG recommends 'Small Claims Procedure; A Practical Guide' by Patricia Pearl (2nd hand on Amazon) so will keep posting if I come up with anything useful.

 

Reading the open letter again I think we all still have a good argument with mis-selling and the fact Barclays and Computeach were so pathetic and took 7 months to finalise and agree the 'bespoke courses' that they forced many people out of a chance of a qualification due to their Advent agreements running out (by the time I'd heard about it my end date was only a few weeks away to complete 3 exams). The FAQ on CT website only went up on 7th Oct, confirming they would honour agreements and allow free re-sits/vouchers to take exams locally. I intend using that as my main argument, that I'd had no chance to finish the course even if I'd wanted to as my agreement ended Dec 2010.

 

I won't write this off just yet but it's understandable if people want o throw in the towel now. Remember some people have won via FOS and apparently the Access and PPI students in the same boat have had more luck with FOS as their courses were nowhere near like for like. Due to CT being co-erced by Barclays to match the Advent conditions that's unfortunately taken the wind out of our sails on that one, but I think we still have some running in the mis-selling.

 

To add...

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm

Edited May 7, 2011 by Fuzzbutt

[lowdown]

OMG Lowdown well spotted

.

 

Edit.

Edited May 7, 2011 by lowdown

[Fuzzbutt]

Edited...

Edited May 8, 2011 by Fuzzbutt

[lowdown]

Edit.

Edited May 7, 2011 by lowdown

[Fuzzbutt]

If BPS's legal team are lying over that - they could be lying about other such things.

The question is....would they be prepared to lie in court?

 

They would certainly have to provide the evidence in a court, I understand, if challenged. To counter loads of individual claims in court will cost them lots of money and a solicitor each time anyhow and a judge would certainly not just accept their word as FOS has.

[Kraken1]

I'm a bit disappointed that Haus's didn't feel that there was a case to mount. I suspect that this means that they actually agree with FOS and Barclays and aren't willing to risk their own cash on a challenge. Personally, I think that alot of people do have a claim, and that these claims are almost identical, but that the remedy won't be a full refund, it will be to be put back in the situation they should have been in had the breach of contract not happened. This might be a replacement course, the cost of a replacement course with an identical supplier, and or some compensation on top.

 

As for the small claims stuff, some claims might fall into the small claims track limits, I suspect many won't. The importance of this is that if the claim is fast track then the loser risks having costs awarded against them.

 

What was the OFT's view? I've seen the extract posted above, but what else did they say? Or did they say nothing else? Did they comment at all on the merits of the case? The extract gives me the impression that they seemed positive?

[blade325]

Hi guys its bad news as to what has happened, however as Fuzzbutt has said if we all individually write to various newspapers, OFT and possibly even arrange demonstrations outside main Barclays bank branches I believe it will force their hands either way .i.e they either take us all to court or agree to a settlement. I personnally favour the second option as bad publicity is what these banks try to avoid.

 

Thnaks again Fuzzbutt for all your work.

[Fuzzbutt]

You're welcome, Blade.

I'm certainly going to look into a small claims court - I agree that many have some really good arguments in their favour, the mis-selling for one, and he poor communication from CT/Barclays that meant time ran out.

I won't throw in the towel yet!

:boxing:

[mugsymo]

I'm a bit gutted about hausfield decision, but would like to thankyou for all the hard work you have put in for us Fuzz

[Savarok]

Nightmare - Barclays won this round too :/

 

Needless to say, thank you for the effort you have put in on working as a intermediary with Hausfeld Fuzz.

[Fuzzbutt]

You're welcome everyone - just sorry we didn't get a result via this route.

 

On a positive note, Hitachi has refunded part/most of loans it gave for Advent courses apparently - customers have put good arguments forward and convinced them. Why can't Barclays do the same?

[Savarok]

Indeed, that fact still has me stumped. How can one finance company agree that section 75 can be upheld yet one completley ignores the fact it exists at all.

 

Maybe it is worth digging around the hitachi threads for titbits of information to go back to Barclays with.

 

Just read through the Hausfeld letter, interesting to see what the Advent directors are upto, especially since the law firm they have is my previous employer!!!

Edited May 9, 2011 by Savarok

[richeeeee]

Its a difficult one. I feel so cheated by not only barclays themselves but the salesmen who initially sold me the course, but what can we realistically look to do now? No Hausfield, FOS seem no good either. Its a shame that barclays seem as though they'l get away with it despite it being clear they have one thing on their mind, getting their money regardless of our situations

[Turfs75]

Fuzzbutt,

Thanks again for all your hard work and time you've put into this.

I really thought hausfield would take this all the way but i guess there is too much risk for them. Back to square one then.

Watched Fight club the other day, can anyone remember what they did at the end? Its an option : )

[Turfs75]

Agree with you richeeee. If i ever see that salesmen again i would do £5000 worth of damage to his face plus interest. The swammy git pulled up in a new porsche as well. bet he's got an aston now.

[richeeeee]

I called Barclays parntner finance other day to see how much it was i owed now. They said that it was****** and i need to call apex to pay it back now? I thought they needed a Deed of assignement or something along thoese lines to demand this money? I could see myself paying apex this money then barclays partner finance denying knowledge of this and wanting more money.

[10pack]

I called Barclays parntner finance other day to see how much it was i owed now. They said that it was****** and i need to call apex to pay it back now? I thought they needed a Deed of assignement or something along thoese lines to demand this money? I could see myself paying apex this money then barclays partner finance denying knowledge of this and wanting more money.

 

Yes I agree with you.. it reminds me of what happened to some people when we had last recession in early 90's.

 

many people had rushed out and brought houses in the previous year or so.. and then when the interest rates shot up found they could no longer afford to pay.. so some thought ok lets give the keys to the loan company and we can call it quits.

 

The loan company did indeed accept their keys and houses and sold them on for what ever money they could get usually at below market value, and the original borrowers thought that would be the end of of it..

 

but some years later the loan companies came back to them and said you still owe us money.. your debt is not wiped off.

The loan companies encouraged these same people who had not been able to pay their original loans (but had managed to get back on their feet years later) to borrow money from wherever to pay as much of their loans back even if it was not 100% of what was owed.

 

So I am assuming that debt collectors had been used in those days just as they have been with us.. and I would not be surprised if the borowers had done deals with the debt collectors.. and then years later the loan companies came to take money off them also.. learn from history even when it seems like it cant happen

[Fuzzbutt]

I'm taking forward a demand for refund via the Small Claims court now (just sending my notice before action letter to BPF as required in case they decide to make me an offer before it takes affect).

Just to remind folk here, even if it's a larger amount you're claiming back (over £5,000 it goes to a County Court) it's worth asking your local CAB if you qualify for legal aid or help with costs/free legal representation by a court appointed solicitor.

Small claims has a 'no costs' rule which ensures, even if you lose, you are not liable to pay the other sides legal costs. County Court slightly different but CAB can advise individual cases.

Don't forget to pull out all the legal points and arguments from Hausfeld's letters to base your case on, plus the fact that BPF have been forced to refund min 60% of the loan to 'no end date' people, Hitachi have already made settlements with their customers, and the directors of Advent are also suing BPF for breach of contract.

I'm confident I'll win my case but obviously (quite understandably!) some people may feel daunted in taking it further (due to fear of being slapped with costs) at County level.

Don't forget too the lack of timely information on the arrangement of the ‘bespoke courses’ from BPF and CT combined to ensure many of us would be unable to complete the course before our agreement ran out. Worth raising.

 

I don't intend giving up without a last shot!!

Have contacted Daily Mirror again (Penman and Sommerlad investigates) who have supported our case in the past. Please everyone try and give them your story (see Mirror's website for contact).

[lowdown]

Good luck Fuzzbutt.

It seems the legal reply from BPF to Ingrid is very useful to the students......

 

 

 

 

 

 

In more ways than they realize....

Edited May 15, 2011 by lowdown

[Fuzzbutt]

Good luck Fuzzbutt.

It seems the legal reply from BPF to Ingrid is very useful to the students......

 

In more ways than they realize....

 

Certainly! I've been going through it with a toothpick and found a couple of contradictions.

Another point we can use is we were not ALLOWED to see any details of the courses unless we 'verified' our details on the CT website, so that was unfair under the Contracts Act. The 'bespoke' offer was not made public on CT website until 7 Oct 2010, 10 months after Advent's collapse!

 

BPF really are full of bullsh** and are desperately trying to claw their way out of this now.

[skinnyribs]

Best of luck Fuzzbutt, and thanks for yer grit and hard work.

 

I've just sent a brief overview of the Access/Advent/BPF situation to WHICH? magazine, seeing as they've had success with the mis-selling of PPI for loans by the major banks, and the banks felt the sting. I've flagged it as a 2 pronged complaint, one is obviously the behaviour of BPF, the other is the regulation of the private training firms.

 

Can I encourage more to do the same as they might see by numbers that there is a campaign to get behind.

[skinnyribs]

Forgot to say....... its dead easy, just go to "contact which" section on their website.