Advent Computer Training (Barclays Partner Finance)

[Fuzzbutt]

Unfortunately patience is key while its sorted. My credit rating is ruined until its all sorted and yes we all knows its a farce, but we will win the case and im hoping more action is taken upon barclays afterwards too.

 

P.s thanks for all the hard work and effort fuzz, very much a hero in my eyes.

 

Thanks Richeee and Mugsmyo - let's hope we can get a result, though it will take a while yet.

 

I spoke to Ingrid today and they are chasing Lovell's (BPF's solicitor) for a response to their last challenge. She explained that, technically, BPF are legally correct in that they have provided a substitute that would allow people to carry on studying and gain a qualification, hence technically they have fulfilled the contract. It's a very grey area legally and whether that choice and the way it was gone about is fair or not is another matter, which Hausfeld are tackling. We also have the mis-selling at the root of it all too so steps have been made.

I'll know more when Hausfeld have Lovell's reply within the next couple of weeks hopefully.

 

It seems there are some people at the moment who have no end date on their contract are being offered extended study time by BPF after FOS decisions have requested that BPF do so. Although these people haven't been offered a refund/cancellation (and this isn't what they asked for) these concessions from BPF are at least hopeful that something is perhaps moving in their camp, Hausfeld feel. That's why it's important that Hausfeld gets to see the final decisions from FOS at this time as they can be used as leverage in the case, showing inconsistencies etc in BPF's wall. Please copy me (@Fuzzbutt) or Ingrid in if you haven't already - it's very important we all do this.

 

The only confirmed cancellation of loan/refund so far has been for someone who was lucky enough to still be within the cancellation period, having just signed up with Advent a couple of weeks before they went bust.

Edited March 14, 2011 by Fuzzbutt

[skyblue dave]

I am currently getting letters / phone calls from two different Debt Agencies - Moorcroft and , more recently, Apex.

I have already sent them letters stating that there is a 'dispute' ongoing; I need to see a Deed of Assignment; I will only communicate via letter.

Fuzzbutt - should I send the details to Ingrid? This can't be acceptable can it?

[mugsymo]

Thanks Richeee and Mugsmyo - let's hope we can get a result, though it will take a while yet.

 

I spoke to Ingrid today and they are chasing Lovell's (BPF's solicitor) for a response to their last challenge. She explained that, technically, BPF are legally correct in that they have provided a substitute that would allow people to carry on studying and gain a qualification, hence technically they have fulfilled the contract. It's a very grey area legally and whether that choice and the way it was gone about is fair or not is another matter, which Hausfeld are tackling. We also have the mis-selling at the root of it all too so steps have been made.

I'll know more when Hausfeld have Lovell's reply within the next couple of weeks hopefully.

 

 

When i first complained about this through consumer direct they told me, because i was a third party in the agreement (as in everything was arranged and went through advent, i just signed the document) the the contract is void if i can prove that the alternate course is not like for like.

 

Is it possible that we can find proof that Barclays cut funding for the course and that we mis trust these people, so we should be entitled to a refund.

 

I am currently getting letters / phone calls from two different Debt Agencies - Moorcroft and , more recently, Apex.

I have already sent them letters stating that there is a 'dispute' ongoing; I need to see a Deed of Assignment; I will only communicate via letter.

Fuzzbutt - should I send the details to Ingrid? This can't be acceptable can it?

 

I have recently had the same problem i sent a letter to moorcroft and they basically ignored me and said they don't have DOA

Now Apex is involved and asking for the same debt, i don't think its legal to throw us from different DCA. There is a information on the students website about DCA and you can find about things online, i personally ignore them. Moorcroft called me today and i said im not paying for what i have not received and you don't have DOA so i refuse to pay and go bankrupt if i have to

[lowdown]

I have recently had the same problem i sent a letter to moorcroft and they basically ignored me and said they don't have DOA

Now Apex is involved and asking for the same debt, i don't think its legal to throw us from different DCA. There is a information on the students website about DCA and you can find about things online, i personally ignore them. Moorcroft called me today and i said im not paying for what i have not received and you don't have DOA so i refuse to pay and go bankrupt if i have to

 

 

Do not deal with APEX - ask for a DOA from them. If you deal with APEX at some point, they will offer you a discount to pay the debt off.

What they then do is to collect their discounted sum - then sell the rest on to another agency.

If they have no credit agreement with you, or a DOA, tell them in a letter to go and do one, that goes for Moorcroft as well. Your Debt or dispute is with BPF, not anyone else.

These people are just bounty hunters. Until or if BPF sell on your debt, the finance agreement/dispute is between you and them only.

 

One thing you must do...is call Trading Standards and tell them BPF are trying to out source you account to two different collection agencies....

They [TS] will put an end to all that nonsense.

[blade325]

Hi all, not been around much lately so thought that its high time that I caught up with the latest discussions. As it seems that Barclays have no intension of backing down and giving us all a refund on monies paid, I believe now is the time to take action and hold picketing action at some high profile Barclays high-street banks.

The fact that Barclays head (Bob Diamond) has accepted a reduced bonus of 6 million pounds is an insult to all of us here, as some of the money that BPF are rabidly going after will end up in his or his cohorts pockets. In the current climate especially towards bankers we would get some very valuable publicity, one which BPF really do not want. Please let me know what you think of the idea.

Thanks

[skyblue dave]

Do not deal with APEX - ask for a DOA from them. If you deal with APEX at some point, they will offer you a discount to pay the debt off.

What they then do is to collect their discounted sum - then sell the rest on to another agency.

If they have no credit agreement with you, or a DOA, tell them in a letter to go and do one, that goes for Moorcroft as well. Your Debt or dispute is with BPF, not anyone else.

These people are just bounty hunters. Until or if BPF sell on your debt, the finance agreement/dispute is between you and them only.

 

One thing you must do...is call Trading Standards and tell them BPF are trying to out source you account to two different collection agencies....

They [TS] will put an end to all that nonsense.

 

As always, you're comments / help is much appreciated. I will definately pass this matter on to the Trading Standards.

[Eagle1905]

Hey all just catching up on whats going on. I got a call from apex last tuesday 15th march. I didnt give the guy a chance. I told them straight that they aint getting any money from me to which he said well phone calls will continue because they cant put my account on hold. So I had a go at him saying they were just bounty hunters which must have got to him a little bit because he started saying they were a reputable company so he wasnt sure where Id got my information from. He also said he was just doing his job and kept saying phone calls would continue so I mentioned id file for harrassement which he said they wasnt doing as I owed them money to which I replied your not get anything from me unless you can provide Deed Of Assignment which he said fair enough. I asked him if he knew why I owed the money which he didnt know anything about so I told him. My account is now on hold for 14 days. Got a letter 2 days later saying I must reply to them within 10 days of the date on letter or further action may be taken not gonna reply though lets see what happens.

Sorry for the long post just so annoyed as I havent heard anything from BPF since September last year. I also mentioned the group action to apex the guy didnt know who Hausfeld were. Il let you know if I hear anything else from them. Hope we win

[10pack]

Hey all just catching up on whats going on. I got a call from apex last tuesday 15th march. I didnt give the guy a chance. I told them straight that they aint getting any money from me to which he said well phone calls will continue because they cant put my account on hold. So I had a go at him saying they were just bounty hunters which must have got to him a little bit because he started saying they were a reputable company so he wasnt sure where Id got my information from. He also said he was just doing his job and kept saying phone calls would continue so I mentioned id file for harrassement which he said they wasnt doing as I owed them money to which I replied your not get anything from me unless you can provide Deed Of Assignment which he said fair enough. I asked him if he knew why I owed the money which he didnt know anything about so I told him. My account is now on hold for 14 days. Got a letter 2 days later saying I must reply to them within 10 days of the date on letter or further action may be taken not gonna reply though lets see what happens.

Sorry for the long post just so annoyed as I havent heard anything from BPF since September last year. I also mentioned the group action to apex the guy didnt know who Hausfeld were. Il let you know if I hear anything else from them. Hope we win

 

I know its hard not to.. but dont get angry with them you are only upsetting yourself.

As the guy mentioned he is only doing his job , but you on the other hand are working yourself up, I know how you feel I felt the same I would get into a real rage over it when I started to get such communications and my doctor had to change my blood pressure tablets to a stronger dose (now take two different tablets).

So now I ignore them, these DCA know they cant take you to court and all the other things they threaten to do without the DOA letter from Barclays Partner Finance.. and to give out this letter, barclays must first inform you of what they intend to do.

 

I also wonder what barclays are up to, its been many months now since I had any communication from them, and that letter was the first coherent letter I had from them all year even though it was just rubbishing all my grievance points (they just white washed all of my points and basicly wrote that they can do what they want).

 

my last DCA letter (third DCA) was from moorcroft last year, I wrote them the standard challange letter on the student site, and I heard nothing from them after their reply letter stating they would apply to barclays for documents, in return barclays sent me copies of my credit agreement- twice without being asked for them, this to me shows barclays has not sold on our (toxic) debts

[lowdown]

Hey all just catching up on whats going on. I got a call from apex last tuesday 15th march. I didnt give the guy a chance. I told them straight that they aint getting any money from me to which he said well phone calls will continue because they cant put my account on hold. So I had a go at him saying they were just bounty hunters which must have got to him a little bit because he started saying they were a reputable company so he wasnt sure where Id got my information from. He also said he was just doing his job and kept saying phone calls would continue so I mentioned id file for harrassement which he said they wasnt doing as I owed them money to which I replied your not get anything from me unless you can provide Deed Of Assignment which he said fair enough. I asked him if he knew why I owed the money which he didnt know anything about so I told him. My account is now on hold for 14 days. Got a letter 2 days later saying I must reply to them within 10 days of the date on letter or further action may be taken not gonna reply though lets see what happens.

Sorry for the long post just so annoyed as I havent heard anything from BPF since September last year. I also mentioned the group action to apex the guy didnt know who Hausfeld were. Il let you know if I hear anything else from them. Hope we win

 

Its pointless getting upset and angry with a bonus hunter/target achiever from the DCA call center. Like he said, its his job.

Just treat it as business and not personal. And after all its just a business transaction thats gone tits up.

Start taking it personal and you will not think straight when dealing with them.

 

And one thing to remember, these callers really don't know the governing bodies guidelines, and certainly not the legalities of it all,

Other wise they would not be working in call centers.

Try asking them for a name, most of them can't seem to remember what it is.

Just food for thought really.

[lewis2]

hi folks i got what appears to be a statement prom b.p.f today with a start date of 17/09/10 , basically its a balance brought forward statement standard enough , Then i noticed that the balance is the same as the original loan amount , slightly more actually and there is no record of any credit payments in!

in fact it says i am in arrears of £1601.04 !

this is the first communication I've had from them in god knows when ,and it appears that not only have they taken the money i originally paid in before they withdrew funding and caused all of this mess

but that they're actually adding money to it:mad2:

[10pack]

hi folks i got what appears to be a statement prom b.p.f today with a start date of 17/09/10 , basically its a balance brought forward statement standard enough , Then i noticed that the balance is the same as the original loan amount , slightly more actually and there is no record of any credit payments in!

in fact it says i am in arrears of £1601.04 !

this is the first communication I've had from them in god knows when ,and it appears that not only have they taken the money i originally paid in before they withdrew funding and caused all of this mess

but that they're actually adding money to it:mad2:

 

if you dont mind my asking how many payments had you made? and what was/is your interest rate?

Mine is 3 years intrest free, I have not had this form yet but I suppose it will arrive, I remember having one off them last year my first payment was in January 2010 newly signed up and had no training at all, when they "found" computeach my first reaction was bloody idiots who pointed them at that company?

but I can guess what the scenario was.. computeach in the red by millions!, they go to barclays office and say "write off computeach loans and we will train up advent students for peanuts/free", and the barclays bunch jumped for joy!!! saved from having to pay out under S75 rules to their customers yipee!! .

And so they all decided they should put in to the boss for a bonus.. the boss sat in his office and thought "I also deserve a bigger bonus for not having sacked those lazy bastards weeks ago"

[lewis2]

not to sure what the interest rate was , i had made 3 payments as i had started with advent in october 2009 and then they went bust in january 2010

been with fuzz's group ever since and won't be paying them either

[10pack]

not to sure what the interest rate was , i had made 3 payments as i had started with advent in october 2009 and then they went bust in january 2010

been with fuzz's group ever since and won't be paying them either

 

I was just wondering if its either interest they applying or their charges for sending you snotty letters informing you that you owe them money and that they have to charge you money for the privilage of informing you this.. it does not matter that they ignored your letters about points of contention.. just so long as they can charge you money, that way they feel better when they stand in front of the boss and tell him he cant have such a big bonus this week.. not enough cash see

Edited March 22, 2011 by 10pack

[Fuzzbutt]

I am currently getting letters / phone calls from two different Debt Agencies - Moorcroft and , more recently, Apex.

I have already sent them letters stating that there is a 'dispute' ongoing; I need to see a Deed of Assignment; I will only communicate via letter.

Fuzzbutt - should I send the details to Ingrid? This can't be acceptable can it?

 

Sorry for a delay in reply - I've not had time to look at the forums lately, but (as has been said already) you need to send the Deed of Assignment and inform your local Trading Standards office about the action of these secondary debt collection agencies. They can be penalised, fined and lose their licenses if enough complaints are made (as recently happened to several the OFT took action against).

 

More info on TS guidelines etc is on my student website 'advice' page under debt collectors (sorry not allowed to put a link up here due to forum rules).

 

Ingrid is not able to act for individuals as this is a group representation so please don't send her anything. She will only advise you to do the above.

[tiger1986]

Hello everyone,

 

I've not been here for a while,but my question is how long more will this case last?If Barclays thinks we should all pay the money what we "owe" them,and they've fulfilled the contract on their side,then why haven't they taken any of us to court yet?It's been going on for over a year now,such a waste of time,nobody knows where to stand in this situation.Have anyone questioned Barclays regarding this?

 

Regards,

tiger1986

[10pack]

Hello everyone,

 

I've not been here for a while,but my question is how long more will this case last?If Barclays thinks we should all pay the money what we "owe" them,and they've fulfilled the contract on their side,then why haven't they taken any of us to court yet?It's been going on for over a year now,such a waste of time,nobody knows where to stand in this situation.Have anyone questioned Barclays regarding this?

 

Regards,

tiger1986

 

Barclays have no intention of helping their customers on this, I have written before on why we have had computeach thrown at us, what I think happened was computeach owed millions when they saw advent go to the wall it was a chance for them to lose this money,they went to barclays and said write off our loan and we will train up the advent students for free (or next to free) the reason why I think this? I for one have not been asked by barclays what I actually wanted.. also if you are trying to work with your customer you would have offered at least some choices.. we have had none its been take it or leave it and.. wack! wack! wack! with a stick because you must pay!!

 

barclays partner finance do not know what we are actually studying, they have no idea where we are on our courses, and they do not care. all they want is their money!! S75 is just a thorn in their side.. they have no intentions of honouring it (unlike the Hitachi Bank, they at least have made some effort to come to some agreement with their customers) and just play lip service to the rules they signed up to.

you can see it in any correspondance with barclays their arrogance towards their customers shows through in every line.. total contempt.

 

 

 

,

Edited March 28, 2011 by 10pack

[Eagle1905]

Hi everyone. Hope everyones good.

Recieved a letter from Apex this morning saying that they were arranging an agent to come round to my home. Has anyone had the same letter. I have just rung them up didnt get worked up with them this time. Just basically told them everything again. The person I was speaking to put me on hold till they had had a word with their supervisor. Once off hold she just said I need to send everything I can to give them evidence of why im not paying. Apparently they are dealing with everything now. So ill send them the info I have got and see what happens.

 

Fuzzbutt any updates from Hausfeld yet, have barclays replied yet. Thanks

[skyblue dave]

Hi everyone. Hope everyones good.

Recieved a letter from Apex this morning saying that they were arranging an agent to come round to my home. Has anyone had the same letter. I have just rung them up didnt get worked up with them this time. Just basically told them everything again. The person I was speaking to put me on hold till they had had a word with their supervisor. Once off hold she just said I need to send everything I can to give them evidence of why im not paying. Apparently they are dealing with everything now. So ill send them the info I have got and see what happens.

 

Fuzzbutt any updates from Hausfeld yet, have barclays replied yet. Thanks

 

I had the same letter. I will ignore it. I'm getting phone calls from Moorcroft and letters from Apex. I've told them I will only communicate via letters, so if they want to come, they can come. I won't discuss it and I won't be intimidated. They keep threatening legal action. Fine! Get on with it! I want my day in court.

[10pack]

I had the same letter. I will ignore it. I'm getting phone calls from Moorcroft and letters from Apex. I've told them I will only communicate via letters, so if they want to come, they can come. I won't discuss it and I won't be intimidated. They keep threatening legal action. Fine! Get on with it! I want my day in court.

 

I have heard nothing more back from moorcroft after I sent them the challange letter from student site asking for DOA and such, they answered that they would apply for the documents from barclays.. never heard from them again.

They cant take you to court with out the DOA and that can only be given to them after barclays has arranged this with you.. these companies are acting illegaly.

if after informing them about DOA you are still getting these letters from apex and others.. report them to trading standards.. they are not allowed to harrass you while your account is in dispute the loan is with barclays not these companies..

 

multiple DCA asking you for cash.. again trading standards.. its about time they tackled barclays about this because barclays also has a credit licence that can be taken away.. and that will hurt them more than all the money that we have in dispute.. again trading standards I think would be interested in this

[lowdown]

Hi everyone. Hope everyones good.

Recieved a letter from Apex this morning saying that they were arranging an agent to come round to my home.

 

APEX are just another bunch of Bounty Hunters, and have picked up that BPF are having trouble collecting the loans

[This data will now be available to all DCA's]

If you have Moorcroft & APEX chasing the same loan repayment, get in touch with Trading Standards.

Its the only way to stop it.

Edited March 28, 2011 by lowdown

[Fuzzbutt]

multiple DCA asking you for cash.. again trading standards.. its about time they tackled barclays about this because barclays also has a credit licence that can be taken away.. and that will hurt them more than all the money that we have in dispute.. again trading standards I think would be interested in this

 

The Office of Fair Trading is aware of this case and are keen to see FOS decision letters that uphold complaints against Advent/BPF. The email to contact them is on my website and in an earlier post here.

By all means contact them and raise this as an individual (although I have written on behalf of the group -copy of letter to the Minister/OFT/FSA is on my website).

 

I hope to have news from Hausfeld soon and have asked for an update on where things are at.

[Kraken1]

Stumbled over this thread looking into this stuff for a friend who seems to be in the same boat. This section isn't my normal home in CAG but will follow for interest.

There are a few points I thought I would make, apologies if they've been made earlier - I've not read the whole post. It seems to be quite an epic.

... asking for DOA and such, they answered that they would apply for the documents from Barclays. Never heard from them again. They can't take you to court with out the DOA and that can only be given to them after Barclays has arranged this with you. These companies are acting illegally.

If DOA is deed of assignment, the above advice is probably incorrect.

You are not entitled to a DOA, although you could request one under the Civil Procedure Rules once litigation is underway. You'd need a good reason though. If the debt has been legally assigned from Barclays to Apex you are entitled to a notice that the debt has assigned under s236 of the Law of Property Act. You don't get any say in whether a debt is assigned to you or not. Providing you have had a NOA then Apex can sue you.

If Apex are only working for Barclays, and the debt has not been assigned to them, then there is no NOA or DOA. Apex can't sue you on their own, but can with Barclays. Or Barclays can sue on their own.

Nothing illegal whatsoever.

if after informing them about DOA you are still getting these letters from apex and others.. report them to trading standards.. they are not allowed to harrass you while your account is in dispute the loan is with barclays not these companies.

Partly true – a creditor isn't allowed to harass you. What is harassment is open to debate though. Multiple calls? Probably? Lots of letters? Probably. The odd letter or call over a year? Probably not. The dispute angle is separate. OFT guidelines say that a creditor shouldn't pursue a debt that is disputed. The harassment and the dispute stuff are two different points.

multiple DCA asking you for cash.. again trading standards.. its about time they tackled barclays about this because barclays also has a credit licence that can be taken away.. and that will hurt them more than all the money that we have in dispute.. again trading standards I think would be interested in this

Again, this is from the OFT guidelines. Trading Standards might be interested but I doubt it. It is the OFT that gives out licences so it is the OFT you'd need to complain to. The important bit though is the question about whether Barclays can seek repayment of the loans. If they can, then the OFT won't be interested. If they can't then the OFT might be. It all hinges on proving that Barclays are legally in the wrong in pursuing this. Whatever the outcome, I very much doubt we'd see their credit licence taken away.

Honestly, despite what I'm saying in the letters I'm writing to them to the contrary, I suspect that they can offer the replacement course. I've not been able to find a solid argument myself, although the course length thing is new to me. I will be going away to look at that as it might be a chink. The Ombudsman report a few pages back is positive. I've also thought about arguing about the measure of damages or losses, rather than whether they are entitled to claim the loan back in principle. I suspect that this is can of worms so am not going to go there yet.

It's all been going on a while – when is the law firm going to issue? The longer it takes the worse it will be, surely? What is the delay? Why not just test it all in court? The situation can't be any worse surely? Unless they pull out I suppose.

[THE ROADIE]

I had Mercers harrassing me last year, so I sent them a letter telling them the account was in dispute and I wanted to see their deed of assignment. After that I heard nothing from either Barclays Partner Finance or Mercers for 3 months. In the last 3 weeks I have had about 7 calls, 7 voicemails and 3 letters from Moorcroft. Just yesterday I had a bright yellow envelope through the door and I knew what it was straight away. It was Moorcroft's Possible Litigation notice letter. I will be writing to them today thanking them for their harrassment and will be informing them I will be reporting them (and Barclays Partner Finance, again) to the FOS and Trading Standards.

[10pack]

You are not entitled to a DOA, although you could request one under the Civil Procedure Rules once litigation is underway. You'd need a good reason though. If the debt has been legally assigned from Barclays to Apex you are entitled to a notice that the debt has assigned under s236 of the Law of Property Act. You don't get any say in whether a debt is assigned to you or not. Providing you have had a NOA then Apex can sue you.

************

 

Can I ask why would any of us need to apply for a DOA?

 

my earlier post was about a Debt Collecting Agency needing a DOA to have the orignal debt assigned to them without it they are just vultures hoping for easy prey.

[lowdown]

Honestly, despite what I'm saying in the letters I'm writing to them to the contrary, I suspect that they can offer the replacement course. I've not been able to find a solid argument myself, although the course length thing is new to me]

 

 

Yes they can offer a replacement course, and indeed have.

The problem is that it was not really offered on a 'Like for Like' basis, although BPF have tried to amend this.

But it seems that Computeach [new provider] are or have been finding it hard to keep their end of the deal without trying to add on extra rather expensive course extension costs.

IE - take the computeach course and sign into the extra cost. The course with Advent was supplied as open ended [ or thats what the sales reps indicated]

And in some cases no start and end dates or signatures provided on the enrolment forms/agreements. This is what the fos are looking into with some of the students.

 

It also seems [reading through posts] that DCA's [and sometimes two at a time] have been contacting students seeking to reclaim the loans on behalf of BPF, but BPF have not written to the students and informed them that the debt had been passed over for collection.

Hence other governing bodies other than the fos being contacted.

 

 

But i am sure you are aware of all this, and thanks for your input.

Edited March 29, 2011 by lowdown