Advent Computer Training (Barclays Partner Finance)

[Fuzzbutt]

As a few people seem a bit lost with what our main arguments to put to FOS or court are, so I've created a new summary page on my website which may be helpful. Please feel free to contact fuzzbutt@ if I've missed any major points out.

I've put up the Advent brochure pages that offer evidence too of the job placement promise (though some of them are already on FB) - now in one place for easy reference.

 

http://adventstudents.webs.com/caseevidence.htm

[Fuzzbutt]

As a few people seem a bit lost with what our main arguments to put to FOS or court are, so I've created a new summary page on my website which may be helpful. Please feel free to contact fuzzbutt@ if I've missed any major points out.

I've put up the Advent brochure pages that offer evidence too of the job placement promise (though some of them are already on FB) - now in one place for easy reference.

 

http://adventstudents.webs.com/caseevidence.htm

[Celina]

thanks Fuzzbutt

[10pack]

Hello Fuzzbutt

How is you county court case going.. has Barclays partner finance got their response back to the court yet..

it seems to be dragging on... I remember reading you was waiting for their next move

 

I really hope all goes well for you

[Fuzzbutt]

Thanks 10pack.

 

I should have a date for the hearing any day now as the court have informed me this has now been passed to the judge for appraisal.

[DonnieB]

Howdy. I'll try to be sucinct.I got my ruling from the FOS a couple of weeks ago - they sided with BPF with regard to the open ended nature of the course - despite no end dates on my form and my assertion that this was what was offered - thus they decided the BPF offer was 'like for like' enough. Had pretty much figured this was what was gonna happen though. One point of interest from the process though was an offer from BPF that they would negotiate a new timescale for me to complete my course but ONLY if i first signed up with Computeach, which i'm obviously not willing to do.Now getting hassled again by debt people, Moorcroft this time with threats of legal action - though managed to get them to put it on hold for a couple of weeks whilst I figure out who I'm going to appeal to next. Couple of questions: Does anyone know if you can/cant raise a new complaint with the FOS on a different tack than the first (i figure if they assert the course was not open ended then I have legitimate claim for it being missold amongst other things)With regard to section 75 does anyone know of anywhere within it that says you HAVE to accept an alternative offer from the creditor in these sorts of instances or is this basically one of the legal type questions that no one knows the answer too and is what is causing a lot of the problems?

[Kraken1]

"With regard to section 75 does anyone know of anywhere within it that says you HAVE to accept an alternative offer from the creditor in these sorts of instances"

 

It doesn't. s75 only states that the creditor is also liable for any breach of contract made on the part of the seller.

Do you have to accept the alternative - arguable. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It's all a bit stuffy, but it all depends on what your rights under the Supply of goods and Services act are. this, in conjunction with s75 means that the creditor has to either fulfil the contract (i.e. send you to computeach) or refund you, or pay you compensation. Which is the right remedy depends on the circumstances. this is why the argument that computeach is not like-for-like is important. If it is then BPF can fulfil the contract. If it isn't they can't and they must refund/compensate you. that's the really simple version by the way, there are lots of ifs and buts that can change that answer.

[rphood]

I am arguing this exact case with the FOS. Computeach has proved useless by their own admission Advent courses were going out of date by the evidence given to the FOS by Computeach Advents own sylabus.If we accept Computeach we get out of date courses but have to pay Advent prices. This has now gone to independent arbitration what ever prevails there is no way now Computeach can provide like for like.

[Fuzzbutt]

I included reference to the LACORS doc in my court evidence where it raised the issue of can a bank enforce it's choice of alternative provider, and pointed out that Computeach did not provide a 'like for like' replacement. Also the evidence I'd found of CT courses being out of date, that we had to wait over 2 months anyway before they were appointed by Barclays, and made it clear that Id already researched into CT and rejected them due to their poor reputation, before choosing Advent.

Some idiot FOS adjudicator has rules to someone on FB group that he found this all 'fair and reasonable'! I don't, and will be arguing that strongly to the judge as a bank acting unfairly, plus pointing out their enforcement means a change to my terms and conditions, which I have not agreed to or signed anything to accept.

[lowdown]

I included reference to the LACORS doc in my court evidence where it raised the issue of can a bank enforce it's choice of alternative provider, and pointed out that Computeach did not provide a 'like for like' replacement. Also the evidence I'd found of CT courses being out of date, that we had to wait over 2 months anyway before they were appointed by Barclays, and made it clear that Id already researched into CT and rejected them due to their poor reputation, before choosing Advent.

Some idiot FOS adjudicator has rules to someone on FB group that he found this all 'fair and reasonable'! I don't, and will be arguing that strongly to the judge as a bank acting unfairly, plus pointing out their enforcement means a change to my terms and conditions, which I have not agreed to or signed anything to accept.

 

My fos outcome is at the moment in appeal - My original adjudicator sent me the reply paper work from BPF. This included the course that Computeach was to provide, with all the course modules and exams.

He concluded this was fair, time limit did not come into it, as did no signature on the enrolment form.He agreed with BPF that i had not been mis-sold the course.

However after i had looked at the so called new course details that BPF/Computeach provided fos. Its seems that they have provided the same exact Advent course/exams, which of course are now defunked.

To me it seems that the fos are not really looking at the evidence in detail. Hence my appeal. Another case of mis-selling.

 

I have had enough, so have joined the small group who are taking legal action. I have a box full of all the stuff Advent sent me while trying to coax me into signing up - all lies of course.

 

Good luck with the court case Fuzzbutt. It looks like i am going down the same route - unless my fos appeal adjudicator comes good.

[Fuzzbutt]

Good luck too, Lowdown.

The Ombudsman upheld my adjudicator's decision and I have no faith in FOS. I don't think they are fit for purpose frankly. They totally disregarded my account of the promises made at sign up, including the mis-leading 14 days to sign up or lose your place letter, all the evidence I provided to show CT courses were outdated and their reputation poor.....since then I've also gathered more stuff so hope the judge looks more thoroughly at everything.

Someone on the FB group has scanned some Advent brochure pages that didn't appear in my pack, so I've copied those. They quote real students talking about jobs they got through Advent Careers (not just vague help with a CV and interview techniques) so let's hope that nails it.

[lowdown]

Good luck too, Lowdown.

Someone on the FB group has scanned some Advent brochure pages that didn't appear in my pack, so I've copied those. They quote real students talking about jobs they got through Advent Careers (not just vague help with a CV and interview techniques) so let's hope that nails it.

 

I was indeed sent the same brochure and 'Real'? student quotes from Advent - My original Adjudicator claimed this was not mis-selling, and wait for it...................................................but,

STANDARD SALES TECHNIQUE.

In some strange way, i feel if/when i go down the legal route, that fos statement might be very helpful.

Standard sales technique and lies are two very different Animals - up to me to prove it of course.

[Kraken1]

You've actually got a few things there:

 

mere puffs - 'sales statements' that are not considered to have contractual force - 'probably the best lager in the world'. Dimmock v Hallet (1866) is the authority normally cited, along with carlill v carbolic smoke balls co.

contractual statements - representations that form part of the contract and if not true entitle the buyer to claim something, anything from complete rescission (if it is actually possible) to compensation. You've actually got the normal contract stuff, in this case the remedies from the supply of goods and services act and then also the misrep act.

 

then there are the cputrs to be considered - these also deal with misleading statements, either my omission or statement. Problem here is that there is not right for a consumer to take action from breach.

 

Not sure whether that actually helps any, though.

[Fuzzbutt]

Thanks Kraken

 

I've done some googling on the Misrepresentation Act 1967 and I think it will cover us regarding the false statements made by the sales reps as these directly induced many of us to sign up with Advent. The promise of a work placement after completing the first A+ exam is the main statement that seems to have been consistently made, the there's the assurances people needed to do certain modules and certificates that they didn't actually need in order to qualify (commission of course for the reps!).

[Kraken1]

the problem with misrep can be identifying the correct type and then the correct remedies. The remedy is mainly rescission, but this can be lost if not possible, as is likely to be the case with advent, or if the original contract is/was affirmed when the misrep was known. Possibly could have been the in some instances. Might be a window to claim damages though, I suppose.

 

All in all, all these ifs and buts and stuff is why I basically folded :/

[Fuzzbutt]

I am guessing the fraudulent misrepresentations would be the one that would apply most as the sales reps obviously lied re; job placements (they must have been aware this was unachievable as they would have promised this to many would-be students who, 2 years later, were still not in even a basic work placement). As I understand it this would be a good case perhaps for recinding the contract and possibly compensation, if it could stick?The court contacted me today and said I wouldn't get a hearing date until Jan 2012 now.

[Kraken1]

I think it would depend on the actual salesman. It would be a hard hurdle to clear to show he knew his reps were false and carried on regardless. Might work if you had a long time-served rep. If it was a chap that had only been working for them for a few weeks it gets harder as you'd need to show that he was following the powers-that-be's instructions and that they knew it was rubbish. Failing that I think I'd run with negligent. Either way though, rescission is not possible unless you'd not actually started the course.

[Fuzzbutt]

Ok - thanks Kraken.I'll perhaps just refer to the Misrepresentation Act and let the judge decide what applies or doesn't in that case. I was a way into the course, but the rep's promise of working with 12 companies in the area certainly led me to believe he personally had some influence in access to possible work placements.

[Kraken1]

do some reading/googling on "Restitutio in integrum" and then you'll have a good idea of the limitations.

[Fuzzbutt]

Thanks - will do that.

[Ahmedshare96]

Notice for guarantor loan Agreements.

This is my third notice to people who are in guarantor satiation. As I requested before We need to arrange a solicitor who will defend the peoples in guarantor satiation and Honestly it will benefit us .The main benefit is we will share the cost BELIEVE it Not many solicitors agree to do that way. Unfortunately there are not enough people agree to share the cost. Most of them want to stand well behind the Queue not many people want to stand on the front line. If you considering rethinking to join the group and agree to share the cost and maybe will to travel send me an email.

thanks

[10pack]

Hi all

I had letter from barclays partner finance, its one of those statements telling me I am in arrears, I did not think it was that time of the year again.

Anyone else get same?

 

as usual they put one of those leaflets in telling you how important it is to talk with your finance company.

 

its a shame they cant follow their own advice and actually communicate with their customers instead of trying to hit them with a stick

[lowdown]

Hi all

I had letter from barclays partner finance, its one of those statements telling me I am in arrears, I did not think it was that time of the year again.

Anyone else get same?

 

as usual they put one of those leaflets in telling you how important it is to talk with your finance company.

 

its a shame they cant follow their own advice and actually communicate with their customers instead of trying to hit them with a stick

 

The have to do it by law - in fact it's the only time they seem to do any thing by the book.

[Penny Mitchell]

Notice for guarantor loan Agreements.

This is my third notice to people who are in guarantor satiation. As I requested before We need to arrange a solicitor who will defend the peoples in guarantor satiation and Honestly it will benefit us .The main benefit is we will share the cost BELIEVE it Not many solicitors agree to do that way. Unfortunately there are not enough people agree to share the cost. Most of them want to stand well behind the Queue not many people want to stand on the front line. If you considering rethinking to join the group and agree to share the cost and maybe will to travel send me an email.

thanks

 

I would interested and need an email address please.

[Fuzzbutt]

Hi Penny - Ahmed is on the 'Advent Scammed Us' Facebook group mostly but you could private message him here, if you haven't already done so.