Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • just to be clear here..... the DVLA do not send letters if a drivers licence address differs from any car's V5C that shows the same driver as it's registered keeper.
    • sorry she is a private individual, the cars are parking on her land. she can clamp the cars. only firms were outlawed from doing it bazza. thats what the victims of people dumping cars on their drives near airports did and they didn't not get prosecuted.    
    • The DVLA keeps two records of you. One as a driver and one for your car. If they differ you might find out in around a month when they will send you a reminder as well as to your other half for their car. If you receive nothing then you can be fairly sure that you were tailgating though wouldn't explain why they didn't pick up your car on one of drive past their cameras. However even if you do get a PCN later then your situation will not change. The current PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 which is the main law that covers private parking. It doesn't comply for two reasons. 1. Section 9 [2][a] states  (2)The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The PCN states 47 minutes which are the arrival and departure times not the time you were actually parked. if you subtract the time you took to drive from the entrance. look for a parking place  park in it perhaps having to manoeuvre a couple of times to fit within the lines and unload the children reloading the children getting seat belts on  driving to the exit stopping for cars pedestrians on the way you may well find that the actual time you were parked was quite likely to be around ten minutes over the required time.  Motorists are allowed a MINIMUM of ten minutes Grace period [something that the rogues in the parking industry conveniently forget-the word minimum] . So it could be that you did not overstay. 2] Sectio9 [2][f]  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Your PCN does not include the words in brackets and in 2a the Act included the word "must". Another fail. What those failures mean is that MET cannot transfer the liability to pay the charge from the driver to the keeper. Only the driver is now liable which is why we recommend our members not to appeal. It is so easy to reveal who was driving by saying "when I parked the car" than "when the driver parked the car".  As long as they don't know who was driving they have little chance of winning in court. This is partly because Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person. And because anyone with a valid motor insurance policy is able to drive your cars. It is a shame that you are too far away to get photos of the car park signage. It is often poor and quite often the parking rogues lose in Court on their poor signage alone. I hope hat you can now relax and not panic about the PCN. You will receive many letters from Met, their unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors threatening you with ever higher amounts of money. The poor dears have never read the Act which states quite clearly that the maximum sum that can be charged is the amount on the signs. The Act has only been in force for 12 years so it may take a  few more years for the penny to drop.  You can safely ignore everything they send you unless or until they send you a Letter of Claim. Just come back to us if they do send one of those love letters to you and we will advise on a snotty letter to send them. In the meantime go on and enjoy your life. Continue reading other threads and if you do get any worrying letters let us know. 
    • Hopefully the ANPR cameras didn't pick up the two vehicles, but I don't think you're out of the woods just yet. MET's "work" consists of sending out hundreds of these invoices every week so yours might be a few days behind your partner's. There is also the matter of Royal Mail.  I once sold two second-hand books to someone on eBay.  Weirdly the cost of sending them separately was less than the cost of sending them in one parcel.  So to save a few bob I sent them seperately.  One turned up the next day.  One arrived after four days.  They were  sent from the same post office at the same time! But let's hope I'm being too pessimistic. Please update us of any developments.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Worried please help/ British Transport Police


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4899 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi

 

I have recieved a summons from the BTP stating I have broken a byelaw , 'soiled rail property', basically I was a bit drunk and had a wee in the wrong toilet (womans baby changing toilet).

 

As I have been advised it is not a recordable offence I have written a letter of apology explaining 'it was moment of madness and I have never been in trouble before (which is true)

 

There is a witness statement and CCTV and I believe I recieved a caution

 

1. Is the advise that issue is not recordable sound?

2. In my letter I have asked for the case to be dealt in my absence as I cannot get off work (but obviosuly will if I have to) - is this wise?

3. I am terrified that if I go to the court the magistrate will realise I was obviously drunk and the charges might get changed to D&D is this plausable/likely? legal? surely I would have to be notified first ?

 

I really just want to get this over with I have learned my lesson thats for sure - so worried as work in banking :(

 

Please help ...

Link to post
Share on other sites

can anyone help with this ...

 

Hi

 

I have recieved a summons from the BTP stating I have broken a byelaw , 'soiled rail property', basically I was a bit drunk and had a wee in the wrong toilet (womans baby changing toilet).

 

As I have been advised it is not a recordable offence I have written a letter of apology explaining 'it was moment of madness and I have never been in trouble before (which is true)

 

There is a witness statement and CCTV and I believe I recieved a caution

 

1. Is the advise that issue is not recordable sound?

2. In my letter I have asked for the case to be dealt in my absence as I cannot get off work (but obviosuly will if I have to) - is this wise?

3. I am terrified that if I go to the court the magistrate will realise I was obviously drunk and the charges might get changed to D&D is this plausable/likely? legal? surely I would have to be notified first ?

 

I really just want to get this over with I have learned my lesson thats for sure - so worried as work in banking
:sad:

 

Please help ...

Link to post
Share on other sites

can anyone help with this ...

 

Hi

 

I have recieved a summons from the BTP stating I have broken a byelaw , 'soiled rail property', basically I was a bit drunk and had a wee in the wrong toilet (womans baby changing toilet).

 

As I have been advised it is not a recordable offence I have written a letter of apology explaining 'it was moment of madness and I have never been in trouble before (which is true)

 

There is a witness statement and CCTV and I believe I recieved a caution

 

1. Is the advise that issue is not recordable sound?

2. In my letter I have asked for the case to be dealt in my absence as I cannot get off work (but obviosuly will if I have to) - is this wise?

3. I am terrified that if I go to the court the magistrate will realise I was obviously drunk and the charges might get changed to D&D is this plausable/likely? legal? surely I would have to be notified first ?

 

I really just want to get this over with I have learned my lesson thats for sure - so worried as work in banking
:sad:

 

Please help ...

 

Don't panic. Whilst not a very savoury performance, it isn't a 'hanging' offence

 

The caution to which you refer will probably be that, in accordance with reporting under PACE(84) you will have been spoken to by the reporting officer in the following terms:

 

'You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something that you may later rely on in Court.

 

Anything that you do say may be given in evidence, do you understand the caution?'

You will then have been asked some questions and the questions and your answers written down, which will provide the basis of the witness statement.

 

1. The breach of Byelaw is a strict liability matter, you have been correctly advised, it is not a recordable offence

 

2. You are looking at the likelihood of a fine and may be ordered to pay the prosecution costs. In my opinion, if you genuinely cannot get time off to go to the Court and say 'Sorry' in person, then you ought to write an aopolgetic letter to the Court, explain that you had a little too much to drink and made an uncharacteristic error whilst your judgement was impaired by alchohol

 

3. The charge before the Court is that for which you have been Summonsed. You haven't been charged with D&D and that isn't their call in this instance. They are simply being asked to judge your culpability for the offence for which you have been accused.

 

 

Good luck

Link to post
Share on other sites

I see that you have posted this query on two separate threads. I have copied my reply to this one too, but it does help avoid confusion if we try to stick to one place for Q&A on here. Anyway, here's my opinion for what it's worth

 

Don't panic. Whilst not a very savoury performance, it isn't a 'hanging' offence

 

The caution to which you refer will probably be that, in accordance with reporting under PACE(84) you will have been spoken to by the reporting officer in the following terms:

 

'You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something that you may later rely on in Court.

 

Anything that you do say may be given in evidence, do you understand the caution?'

You will then have been asked some questions and the questions and your answers written down, which will provide the basis of the witness statement.

 

1. The breach of Byelaw is a strict liability matter, you have been correctly advised, it is not a recordable offence

 

2. You are looking at the likelihood of a fine and may be ordered to pay the prosecution costs. In my opinion, if you genuinely cannot get time off to go to the Court and say 'Sorry' in person, then you ought to write an aopolgetic letter to the Court, explain that you had a little too much to drink and made an uncharacteristic error whilst your judgement was impaired by alchohol

 

3. The charge before the Court is that for which you have been Summonsed. You haven't been charged with D&D and that isn't their call in this instance. They are simply being asked to judge your culpability for the offence for which you have been accused.

 

 

Good luck

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't panic. Whilst not a very savoury performance, it isn't a 'hanging' offence

 

The caution to which you refer will probably be that, in accordance with reporting under PACE(84) you will have been spoken to by the reporting officer in the following terms:

 

'You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something that you may later rely on in Court.

 

Anything that you do say may be given in evidence, do you understand the caution?'

You will then have been asked some questions and the questions and your answers written down, which will provide the basis of the witness statement.

 

1. The breach of Byelaw is a strict liability matter, you have been correctly advised, it is not a recordable offence

 

2. You are looking at the likelihood of a fine and may be ordered to pay the prosecution costs. In my opinion, if you genuinely cannot get time off to go to the Court and say 'Sorry' in person, then you ought to write an aopolgetic letter to the Court, explain that you had a little too much to drink and made an uncharacteristic error whilst your judgement was impaired by alchohol

 

3. The charge before the Court is that for which you have been Summonsed. You haven't been charged with D&D and that isn't their call in this instance. They are simply being asked to judge your culpability for the offence for which you have been accused.

 

 

Good luck

 

Thanks for that old codga n as I am not home yet and on phone couple more issues I'd like your opinion on

 

4. Cctv clearly says can't see me soiling just leaning against wall

5. Solicitor advised statement not admissable as was interviewed in public in front of witness

 

I have gone with my gut to send a letter and apologise as just seems right thing to so all round as long as my job not effected

 

Lastly (until I can get on my laptop) - what sort of fine do you think I may get , I believe is grade 3 which is max K1000 and will I wind up the mag by not appearing and what per centage chancve he will adjourn and call me back?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you viewed this CCTV in the presence of your Solicitor and the Police?

 

If you have faith in this Solicitor, you are paying for his advice and I have reservations about anyone making such a sweeping comment.

 

I am not about to attempt to discredit his view without the luxury of seeing the evidence for myself.

 

I don't think that I, or any one else on a public open forum can offer any more helpful advice if you have already taken this up with a qualified legal advisor who has the benefit of seeing the whole case.

 

.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you viewed this CCTV in the presence of your Solicitor and the Police?

 

If you have faith in this Solicitor, you are paying for his advice and I have reservations about anyone making such a sweeping comment.

 

I am not about to attempt to discredit his view without the luxury of seeing the evidence for myself.

 

I don't think that I, or any one else on a public open forum can offer any more helpful advice if you have already taken this up with a qualified legal advisor who has the benefit of seeing the whole case.

 

.

 

To be honest I consulted solicitor in early days but decided wanted to admit guilt on own. I have not seen photos as were never senmt to me.

 

I have not gone down solicitor route at all I am admitting guilt and apologising so please don't be alarmed as I really need your help.

 

I am getting married next year tbh and my only real concern is letting the court know I am of good character , apologising, learning my lesson and moving on...

Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest I consulted solicitor in early days but decided wanted to admit guilt on own. I have not seen photos as were never senmt to me.

 

I have not gone down solicitor route at all I am admitting guilt and apologising so please don't be alarmed as I really need your help.

 

I am getting married next year tbh and my only real concern is letting the court know I am of good character , apologising, learning my lesson and moving on...

 

And no crim record obviously

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not alarmed at all, I'm sorry to have to say this, but I just hope that you can see how easy it is to discredit a poor witness in Court.

 

You make the statement that "Cctv clearly says can't see me soiling just leaning against wall", but when challenged, you admit that you haven't seen any photographs.

 

If you know that you offended and are intending to admit guilt, I honestly believe that you just need to apologise and face up to the likelihood of a financial penalty.

 

Assuming you plead guilty or are convicted if not, there will be a record of a conviction recorded by the Court, but this is not the same as a criminal conviction. It is just a record that you were fined for a breach of Byelaw.

 

.

Edited by Old-CodJA
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not alarmed at all, I'm sorry to have to say this, but I just hope that you can see how easy it is to discredit a poor witness in Court.

 

You make the statement that "Cctv clearly says can't see me soiling just leaning against wall", but when challenged, you admit that you haven't seen any photographs.

 

If you know that you offended and are intending to admit guilt, I honestly believe that you just need to apologise and face up to the likelihood of a financial penalty.

 

Assuming you plead guilty or are convicted if not, there will be a record of a conviction recorded by the Court, but this is not the same as a criminal conviction. It is just a record that you were fined for a breach of Byelaw.

 

.

 

Sorry am being unclear, it is the officer who viewed the cctvs statement which clearly says you can't see me doing it

 

Will a court record show up if an emplyer does a record check I believe it is called a CRC check?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot see why the 'interview' would not be admissable. The 'interview' would have been fairly short, not many questions that I can think to ask with an issue like this. I rather assume that an officer witnessed enough of 'the act' that the 'interview' would have been more to do with establishing identity, and a quick 'what are you doing'.

 

Most 'interviews' for minor offences will be conducted 'in the open'. There is a 'human rights' issue with such interviews, but the overiding thing is that it would not be 'proportionate' to the offence to take 'the accused' to a police station to interview on tape and so on.

 

I think your instincts are right, a written guilty plea, with an apology, will gain maximum discount, don't forget to submit a form MC100 which is called something like 'make sure you can pay your fine'. If there isn't one with the summons, you can get one from any magistrates court. (I haven't checked, but a lot of 'forms' are on the HMCS web site as downloadable PDF files.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am surprised the CPS chose to run with this one, and an official Police Caution wasn't offered instead. These can usually be given on the spot, but being intoxicated might have meant you needed to be arrested and it issued when your were sober. The same goes for a PND of £80 (Penalty Notice for Disorder), although the latter would definitely only be a viable option if you were arrested and sobered up, or if the officer visited you when you were sober or you visit him at the station, and if it was in public view, as the public order act would be used.. From what I gather, although the toilet was not meant for Gentlemen, surely the fact that you urinated in a Toilet, regardless of for whom it was intended, you didn't soil railway property, as the toilet is designated for this very use...

 

Unless of course you missed the toilet on account of you being elephant's.... ;)

Edited by Stigy
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmmm BTP dealing with lowly byelaws eh? There was a time not so long ago when they wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. I've noticed in recent months a huge increase in byelaw use by BTP. Nice easy immediately detected crime with an instant clear up. Now I'm not cynical (much) but you might be forgiven for thinking that someone is massaging the figures?

Link to post
Share on other sites

posts merged to same thread

 

dx

siteteam

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmmm BTP dealing with lowly byelaws eh? There was a time not so long ago when they wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. I've noticed in recent months a huge increase in byelaw use by BTP. Nice easy immediately detected crime with an instant clear up. Now I'm not cynical (much) but you might be forgiven for thinking that someone is massaging the figures?

 

Yes it seems I have been unlucky but I have come to terms with it and no pt in crying over spilt milk.

 

Very annoying though when you consider some of the things you see people get away with these days in saying that it is my own fault and hopefully when I apologise to the court they will see I am genuinely apologetic and be leniant.

 

from talking to people here they suggest 'the location may have an issue' and yes I agress someone somewhere is definitely pushing this to massage some figures , lets hope the magistrate is as annoyed with it as I am but I wont hold my breath!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys as this is a non recordable offence, I am unsure if a discharge is the best request for me to make? Can you be 'discharged' for a bye law?

 

Bit confused now

 

Thanks

 

 

You just cant help some people, did you actually read the responses?

 

Fin.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You just cant help some people, did you actually read the responses?

 

Fin.

 

Yes I did read thanks you very much and all have been helpfull.

 

What is confusing me is the fact one prson has advised to request a discharge and I know for a fact this a 'discharge' recordable, are you saying it is only recordable for recordable offences?

 

be clear is a discharge for this unrecordable byelaw thus unrecordable?

 

I am just getting a bit stressed now and not thinking right

 

as it stands I have written and apologised as advised and I will repeat in court

Link to post
Share on other sites

One of our (very) old jokes was to say that he has got Tulips from Amsterdam. Now that is a really criminal record.

 

Byelaw offences are not 'recordable' on the 'criminal record'. They are, however, recorded on the case papers. As they are heard in open Court, they may be reported 'publicly'.

 

If an employer asks a question in a recruitment form 'have you had any convictions', most of us would advise that you say 'yes'. This offence will be seen in years to come as one of those aberations that prove that you 'are human', rather than you should be in Dartmoor for a long time. The danger of saying 'no', is that the offence can be discovered. Probably won't be, but there remains a risk. Somewhere in the office, there is a schedule of how long offences 'stay on record'. (Rehabilitation of offenders Act anybody?)

 

I think I have already said 'keep some perspective' to this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue of asking for a discharge is one of those 'advocacy' questions.

 

You have to plant the seed of considering a discharge, without directly asking for it. I think (and only trying it would tell) that if you march into Court, tell them that they should give you an absolute or conditional discharge, the Magistrates may well say 'no, £175 fine, £110 costs and £10 compensation.'

 

However, if you explain to the Court that you are hard up, andyou have spoken to 'advisers' who have told you that you would have to pay for a proper solicitor, and, as a first time offender, you don't really know what procedures are, you could explain that someone had told you that the Court can give an absolute discharge. It plants the seed without you asking.

 

This is part of the danger of taking 'on-line' advice. If I am wrong, or if another 'reader' mis-understands what I am trying to say, it is 'you' that will suffer, with no comeback against 'me' for my comments. I don't know the Magistrates who will hear this case. I don't know how they reacted to the last bit of similar naughtiness. I cannot see what they look like. Or what you look like, for that matter.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was at ****** Magistrates for a case, a few years ago, it must be said. Defendant, a woman, from the south of the County had used a string of language to a public servant, also female, also in the south of the County, that would have made even and olf RSM blush, and in a very pointed and nasty manner. I was expecting the Court to ask why she hadn't been charged with a more serious offence, what they actually said was 'they all speak like that, you have to expect it if you work there'.

 

My ghast was well and truly flabbered. A very similar matter, from around the same time, heard at the City of London, the Court said 'no one should come to work to put up with that' and fined £100.00.

 

(I thought I ought to remove the name of the first Court, I will be going there again!)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I have already said 'keep some perspective' to this.

 

That's the best bit of advice anyone can give in my opinion.

 

It isn't a major offence, in my opinion it is damned silly and inconsiderate, others may take a different view, but it isn't going to have earth shattering consequences if you deal with it rationally and are polite, say sorry, take the punishment (if any) in a mature manner, then move on.

 

I thought I'd better add, that obviously doesn't mean it shouldn't be taken seriously, in my book it is the failure to deal with minor antisocial activities firmly that allows the proliferation of such actions. If there is a minor stigma attached that prevents a repeat, then that's all part of life's learning curve.

 

I'm sorry if that offends anyone, it is purely a personal opinion and as others have pointed out many times, that's all any of these posts are really.

.

Edited by Old-CodJA
Link to post
Share on other sites

One of our (very) old jokes was to say that he has got Tulips from Amsterdam. Now that is a really criminal record.

 

Byelaw offences are not 'recordable' on the 'criminal record'. They are, however, recorded on the case papers. As they are heard in open Court, they may be reported 'publicly'.

 

If an employer asks a question in a recruitment form 'have you had any convictions', most of us would advise that you say 'yes'. This offence will be seen in years to come as one of those aberations that prove that you 'are human', rather than you should be in Dartmoor for a long time. The danger of saying 'no', is that the offence can be discovered. Probably won't be, but there remains a risk. Somewhere in the office, there is a schedule of how long offences 'stay on record'. (Rehabilitation of offenders Act anybody?)

 

I think I have already said 'keep some perspective' to this.

 

 

good advice as usual.

 

I will go, be honest (which I am) and hope for the best.

 

I know the advise here is only opinion.

 

Discharege - 1 year spent

cond discharge - 6 mnths

 

I expect a fine to be honest but on the basis of good charcter and possibiity of effecting my working life plus my utmost sincere apologies will suggest discharge , if its not be then so be it.

 

I have come to acept whatever will be will be

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...