Debts over 40k, Cant go bankrupt. What do we do?

[pengy666]

I'm gonna wait to do those requests as I don't really require that information at this moment. I will just forward a letter telling them, They have all the information related to my name. I will give them my full name and date of birth. The rest is up to them. If they reckon I owe them 10K then I reckon they should know who I am. Like I said stalling.

[Tingy]

I'm gonna wait to do those requests as I don't really require that information at this moment. I will just forward a letter telling them, They have all the information related to my name. I will give them my full name and date of birth. The rest is up to them. If they reckon I owe them 10K then I reckon they should know who I am. Like I said stalling.

 

I disagree! You're not stalling, you're taking very sensible precautions. If I wrote to you and said you owed me £10000 I doubt you'd pay it, so what gives them this right? They either have the proof or they don't simple as! If they don't, they cannot enforce the debt until such time as they have got the proof.

[pengy666]

Sorry I meant they are stalling. thats why they are asking stupid questions like whats the bank sort code?

Edited January 9, 2011 by pengy666

[Tingy]

Sorry I meant they are stalling. thats why they are asking stupid questions like whats the bank sort code?

 

I can't repeat enough, it is not your job to help them comply with your request. They've demanded the money, you've asked for the CCA. For them it's either put up or shut up time, it certainly isn't for you to give them any information whatsoever to help them.

[pengy666]

YEah my thinking too, Thanks tingy.

Edited January 10, 2011 by pengy666

[pengy666]

What about Emigration?

 

What do I do? Pay CCJ and let others hang?

[Tingy]

Gawd, that is taking drastic action. If you emigrate to the right place you cannot be pursued for your debts in the UK. However, it would make it hard for you to come back again for the next 6 years (say 6 1/2 - 7 to be safe) and it really is very extreme. Fair play to you though, it's an option I would never have thought of. I am not at all familiar with emigration laws so don't know whether you can move abroad like that with outstanding debt in this country or not.

[sequenci]

don't know whether you can move abroad like that with outstanding debt in this country or not.

 

You would need to check the various immigration laws of the countries in question. Their embassies will be able to fill you in.

 

Also bear in mind that if a creditor obtains a CCJ against you they can, in principle at least, chase you forever - although there are plenty of rules + caselaw which points to 6 years being the maximum that leave will be given for enforcement measures once the judgment has been obtained.

[pengy666]

I have been toying with the idea for emigration for a while.

 

My job is good I like it, Thats it. My wifes job is good but its not great as the goverment is cutting so much money her job is not secure. We were talking about paying off the CCJ as this will hinder us emigrating, Then paying the one or two larger debts.

 

If we go it will be for good. What has the UK to offer to any UK citizen? We work hard for our money and they work hard to take it off us?!

 

The UK is a huge rat race and everyone is trying to get one over you.

 

I read this

 

If debt got racked up in your name and the creditors insist on holding you liable it is a way to escape it.

If you move abroad (to Australia/NZ for example) your UK debt cannot affect your credit rating there.

Even if the debt is sold to an Australian/NZ debt collection company, by law they are compelled to accept any arrangement offer you make – even as low as $5 a month.In Australia/NZ you cannot be threatened with legal action on the basis of your UK debt.

After six years your debt is “statute barred” and written off anyway (provided you have not acknowledged it in writing or paid anything towards it for that time period. This does not apply to certain other debts covered by deed such as mortgage arrears for which you can be pursued for up to 12 years afterwards. If a CCJ (court judgement) has been registered against you before the end of the six year period it does not expire.

Edited January 12, 2011 by pengy666

[The Debt Star]

Emigration doesn't always work out and you could end up coming back owing even more money. The economies in some of the popular destinations are fairly fragile and there is always a rat race, wherever you live. I discovered all of this when I took off to NZ to live.

[pengy666]

Ok so now I have another two CCA returned and they do not act on behalf of this company anymore.

 

What do I do about them taking my money for the last 4 years or so?

 

Of course I will be forwarding account dispute letters, Also they have not provided any information or indicated they are going to pass the request onto the original creditor.

[Tingy]

Ok so now I have another two CCA returned and they do not act on behalf of this company anymore.

 

What do I do about them taking my money for the last 4 years or so?

 

Of course I will be forwarding account dispute letters, Also they have not provided any information or indicated they are going to pass the request onto the original creditor.

 

Sorry - me being thick! Are you saying you've been paying these two companies for the past four years, they've taken your money and now you've CCA'd them they have failed to supply a CCA and told you they are not acting for the OC anymore?

 

I think this is what you mean. If so and you haven't heard from anybody else, then you need written confirmation that the money you have paid them has been passed to the original creditor, otherwise you want it back. You also remind them of their obligation to pass your request on to the OC, let the 12+2 days past then stop paying and place the account into dispute.

 

Write to the OC with the Account In Dispute letter explaining that you've been paying x DCA £y pcm for the past four years. Ask them to send you the current balance of account and say they should be hearing from x DCA with a CCA request as you submitted one to them on dd/mm/yyyy enclosing the statutory fee of £1.00, and were told they were no longer dealing with this account. Until such time as you receive this the account will remain in dispute. Also ask for a statement of account showing all payments made over the past year (and if feeling cheeky, the past 4 years)

[pengy666]

We have done this for a very long time,

 

We have written to all the collection agencys asking for statement of accounts regularly. Most never acknowledge the letter has even been recieved.

 

Yes this has gone on for this long and the original creditors never ask for money. We sometimes get monthly statements for some of the cards. Its absolute madness.

 

my letter is the same as the one we created with Elsa's help. Not a account in dispute, Just saying forward relevant information or the original cca letter or I will dispute the account.

[Tingy]

We have done this for a very long time,

 

We have written to all the collection agencys asking for statement of accounts regularly. Most never acknowledge the letter has even been recieved.

 

Yes this has gone on for this long and the original creditors never ask for money. We sometimes get monthly statements for some of the cards. Its absolute madness.

 

my letter is the same as the one we created with Elsa's help. Not a account in dispute, Just saying forward relevant information or the original cca letter or I will dispute the account.

 

In which case that is what you must do. If they do not supply the requested CCA then send the Account In Dispute Letter (shout if you need a copy). At this stage you stop making any payments whatsoever, and until such time as they comply with your request they have to cease all collection activity on the debt (they often don't - so just store up any letters etc.... while in dispute as evidence).

 

It is regretable that it has got to this stage in my opinion, but really you have been forced into a corner where you either pay a group of people who may or may not be entitled to the money you're sending them, or you place the account into dispute, cease payment and force their hand - you really have no option as far as I can see.

 

I would make sure you keep a copy of this thread somewhere as evidence that you've tried your best as well.

 

The owner of the debt is duty bound to send you an annual statement of account - have you been getting these?

Edited January 13, 2011 by Tingy

[victoria_siempre]

Hi Pengy

 

Tingy's advice is sound.

 

Were you to stop paying, you might get somewhere.

 

love

 

vic

[Undercover-Elsa]

Just catching up.....

Yep, I agree. OK for you to pay them money, not interested in supplying you with proof you owe it. Hmmm. Stop paying them, see who (eventually) comes out of the woodwork to demand payment.

In the meantime write to the OC's and say that you are most concerned about the administration of the above (not "my") account in that despite having paid xxx company for several years they have recently sent the (enclosed copy) letter refusing to supply a copy of the Credit Agreement formally requested on xxxx or to advise to whom the request should be made. As they are aware this is contrary to OFT guidelines. In order to be reasonable in this matter you therefore enclose a copy of the original request, but that the original date of receipt of the request by their agents (xx xx xx) still stands and the account is in dispute until the request is fully satisfied.

 

A couple of other observations..good find on the Carey judgement, but (extremely briefly..it's still being picked apart to the nth degree) this is in relation to what can be supplied in response to a CCA request..ie reconstituted agreements. Many creditors are abusing the rulings to infer that recons are enforceable in court.

 

With regard to recons...they CAN supply them in response to the CCA request, but they have to be correct and have your original address, correct interest rates, T&C's etc from inception and if varied. Many get it wrong. (One of my recons quoted an act that hadn't been, erm, enacted when the card was taken out.)

Sooooo never ever supply your original address etc, as you've rightly elected not to do, your current address and account reference should be all they require if they've kept proper records. If they haven't..tough!

 

Elsa xx

[Tingy]

Sound advice as always Elsa!

[Undercover-Elsa]

Only what you've already advised yourself, Tingy

[ninjainthenight]

there are a number of ways here, some a bit naughty, some not so, but i would strongly advise your wife speaks to her employer and asks permission to go bankrupt, it is questionable unless she works in finance and accounting whether it would even be a fair term. Whatever anyone says i refuse to accept that an IVA is a suitable arrangement for anyone given the long term nature and the fact it still does not supersede a secured debt. so i would avoid that at all costs. bankruptcy is not joint, never is, never will be, not even if you want it to be.

[sillygirl1]

I agree with ninjainthenight on this, IVAs aren't suitable for everyone and only prolong the agony, and leave you a pauper as well. It also has the effect of leaving your credit rating trashed for another six years after the final payment on the final debt has been paid off..... something that bankruptcy puts a stop to.

 

If you wife does have the opportunity of taking voluntary severence again be careful about letting creditors know, it is best then to negotiate with everyone WITHOUT letting them know about the severance payment as some DCAs are getting sneaky and try to go for other methods very quickly now - such as forthwith CCJs backed up in 14 days with an interim charging order....

[The Debt Star]

totally agree with SG

[Tingy]

I thought the whole point here was that you couldn't go bankrupt - am I wrong?

 

Haven't had an update for a while - how are things going? What's happened?

[sequenci]

It also has the effect of leaving your credit rating trashed for another six years after the final payment on the final debt has been paid off

 

it's six years from the date of the IVA order, rather than the last payment. I totally agree that an IVA is an unlikely option for sure.

[Undercover-Elsa]

I don't think anything's happened, Tingy.

Under many circumstances I'd probably agree that Bankruptcy was a way out, but as Pengy was so keen to avoid that and explore other options, that's what we've been trying to help him do.

Also, I'm under the impression that these debts are spread between both Pengy and his wife, some individual, maybe some joint, so without a breakdown of who owes the most and how much is joint (in which case the non BR partner would obviously become liable for the whole debt), then it's hard to pass an opinion anyway on whether BR is the best option for either or both.

As Pengy is now in a position to possibly negotiate full and finals, my own (admittedly naughty ) view is that the creditors would be far more likely to take reduced offers if the accounts were disputed and payments stopped, to the point where they are more malleable and receptive to offers.

Additionally, a "consideration" in the offer would be to inform them that this is a last ditch attempt to sort this out, the only other option being bankruptcy, in which case they would get very little as no property is involved - hence it's in the creditors' best interest to deal.

Hopefully Pengy will update us, as things can change very quickly.

Just my personal thoughts,

 

Elsa x

[Tingy]

Agree with you Elsa 100%. May I also say how shocked I am at you having "naughty" thoughts!:lol: