HFO - UK Debt, Living in US

[coledog]

Hi

 

Just to add - you are not a criminal and really have done nothing wrong. The only weapon this company has is intimidation. They buy up debts from the original company for about £100 and normally without any of the supporting documentation to enforce them in law. They then add interest and charges to the original amount (on which there are probably unfair interest and charges anyway).

 

By threating behaviour towards yourself and family they are potentially guilty of extortion and harassment which is why we ask people to report them.

 

Tell your employer that you are receiving malicious calls and ask your family to report the contact to them, as it is bang out of order.

Edited October 10, 2010 by coledog

[cerberusalert]

Unless they obtained a CCJ whilst you were still resident in the UK they're stuffed. they cannot legitimately obtain a CCJ against a non-UK resident. If they have done it can easily be set aside.

[DonkeyB]

Moreover, if you can record a call that proves they KNOW you are in the US, then they go for a UK CCJ in your absence, that would be a clear case of vexatious litigation. But I wouldn’t put it past them.

[BrokeBob]

May an American give a bit of advice on how to procede on this end?

 

As far as how to deal with these con men in the UK, I cannot help you at all. The advice you will get from others is what you should pay attention to.

 

Debtors in the US often have more rights than do debtors in the UK, but in this case it appears to be the other way around. If you owe money in the US, but move out before it is statute barred, the time freezes while you are out of the country, and is reset when you return. So, you could leave for 20 years, and still get sued. That does not appear to be the case in the US.

 

If they somehow decide to file suit against you in the US, there are a few things you should know.

 

First, if they sue you, the judge may be completely confused. Most American judges have no idea whatsoever how to handle overseas debt. So, your best bet would be to file a Motion to Dismiss based on the fact that the local court has no jurisdiction over the matter.

 

Second, the statute of limitations on debt varies for different states, and for different types of debt. In Delaware, the debt is statute barred after only 3 years, but Ohio it would be 15 years. So, if you are in Delaware or Virginia or some other state with a shorter statute of limitations than back home, file for dismissal if the debt is any older than the local SOL. Otherwise, file for dismissal if the debt is older than the statute back home. IMPORTANT: The judge will not dismiss the case if you do no bring up the point. If you live in Wisconsin, it is illegal for they to try to collect statute barred debt. You can counterclaim for damages, or $1000, whichever is greater.

 

Third, in virtually every state in the US, you can demand they prove that (a) the debt is real and (b) they actually own the debt. Most of these debt buyers, what we in the states call junk debt buyers, don't HAVE the proof required to win a case in court.

 

Fourth, there is a very good chance they will violate US and state laws in debt collection. Read up on the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and the corresponding state statutes. They ALWAYS violate the FDCPA. The penalty is $1000, and/or damages, plus attorney's fees. So, if you spend $3000 on an attorney and $500 on court costs to file a claim against a debt collector for FDCPA violations, they will wind up having to pay $4500, of which $1000 goes to you.

 

Finally, realize that a number of judges just plain hate anyone accused of being a debtor, and may well ignore all the laws. In that case, you would need to appeal to a higher court.

 

For more information about American debt laws and courts, I would suggest the forums at http://www.debtorboards.com/

Edited October 31, 2010 by cerberusalert

[BlueRaider]

BrokeBob,

 

Thanks for this information. I had looked regarding Arizona and it's 6 years for credit card debt for statute of limitations. I'm unsure if it will go that far however.

 

I received a letter addressed to my employer today from HFO with what seems to be the usual threatening inquiry for payment. Is this considered against the OFT guidelines?

 

What I find interesting is that they have specifically showed my UK equifax credit report with the debts circled, and this also shows my last year on the electoral roll as 2006. Wouldn't this all be good evidence for showing a court that HFO know I am no longer a resident if they do try for a CCJ? They also go on about how they know I'm in the United States, will get a judgement and then transfer it to Arizona. They also apparantly know my financial situation and know I can pay so the matter will not be dropped.. they also attached what seem to be a generic judgement Question & Answer document.

 

Should this be a matter of continue to ignore & hold on to any documentation until they file a CCJ?

[hatehfo]

Hi,

I'm in the same boat as Mark (post #1) though my debt was way less when I left UK 4+ years ago. I started getting calls from HFO earlier in October'10 and I guess they found my information via Linked in. After a taking a couple of calls I stopped taking there calls and sent them an email asking for more information (CCA, Default notices, any statements etc.) on the alleged debt and requested them not to call and only correspond via email or mail. I still got a couple more voice mails even after my emails but now I got a letter last week to my US address stating that they have tried to contact me on multiple occasions to my UK address and found out that I left UK without informing my creditors and a bunch more crap stating that they bought this obligation from Barclays on 30th October 2007. They have added ridiculous amount of HFO’s rate of 12%. Now they are threatening me to get a CCJ in UK and then ‘order to obtain information’ in UK to which if I don’t show up in the English court will lead to an arrest warrant in UK which will affect my future travel plans to the UK and the sue me in California and also to incorporate the judgment to my US FICO score. Please advice??

Thanks!

J

Edited November 3, 2010 by hatehfo

[hatehfo]

Hi Blueraider,

 

I'm in California and I've got a a similar letter from those scumabags! A two page letter, 7 page EX326 and my credit report. I'm also waiting for an answer. I did look for help on 'justanswers.com'

 

J

[coledog]

Hello again BlueRaider and welcome Hatehfo, we were wondering who you were!

 

I think that the original advice here applies and really this amounts to pure harassment, particularly contacting an employer which is bang out of order. Complaints to the OFT are needed - you can do this electronically with scans of any documents received. Also, complaints about use of the credit report to the CRA and the ICO as this is clearly in breach of the Data Protection Act.

 

I would suggest a SAR request to the original creditor but you will probably need to get this sent from the UK as it has to be sent with a £10 postal order by recorded delivery. Unsure who your OCs are so you will need to find the correct addresses. letter attached.

General SAR template.doc

[sillygirl1]

Inform your local senator, they should be able to stop this company from breaking UK law in the USA.

 

They cannot take you to court in the UK and automatically transfer the case to the USA, your court system would have a lot of questions for them...

 

Don't fill in any forms and return them and ask your employer to contact the senator on your behalf as well - this is banned in the UK and I believe in the USA.

 

They cannot just write to your employer and ask them to deduct most of your salary to pay for this.

 

One has to keep asking why no other contact was made from 2006 until now as they seem to have a lot of information sources available to them.

[BrokeBob]

Did they send it to you personally at the employer's address, or did they send it to your employer? If they sent it to your employer, they are violating several US federal laws. If they threaten you with actions they cannot undertake, they may also be violating US federal law. I don't know enough about the law or your case to tell you if they are violating any laws. There are some good attorneys in Arizona. Go to the debtorboards or the credit-info-center forums web sites and ask people there for the name of a good attorney.

 

 

BrokeBob,

 

Thanks for this information. I had looked regarding Arizona and it's 6 years for credit card debt for statute of limitations. I'm unsure if it will go that far however.

 

I received a letter addressed to my employer today from HFO with what seems to be the usual threatening inquiry for payment. Is this considered against the OFT guidelines?

 

What I find interesting is that they have specifically showed my UK equifax credit report with the debts circled, and this also shows my last year on the electoral roll as 2006. Wouldn't this all be good evidence for showing a court that HFO know I am no longer a resident if they do try for a CCJ? They also go on about how they know I'm in the United States, will get a judgement and then transfer it to Arizona. They also apparantly know my financial situation and know I can pay so the matter will not be dropped.. they also attached what seem to be a generic judgement Question & Answer document.

 

Should this be a matter of continue to ignore & hold on to any documentation until they file a CCJ?

[BrokeBob]

Senators are pretty useless in this regard. They are generally owned lock, stock and barrel by the large corporations. Especially the grumpy old men from Arizona, Jon Kyl and John McCain.

 

Some congressmen are helpful, but your best bet may be to contact the attorney general. I don't know if the AZ AG is any good. Some of great, some are useless. The AG for my state is completely useless for consumer matters. The best bet is usually to find a private attorney.

 

 

Inform your local senator, they should be able to stop this company from breaking UK law in the USA.

 

They cannot take you to court in the UK and automatically transfer the case to the USA, your court system would have a lot of questions for them...

 

Don't fill in any forms and return them and ask your employer to contact the senator on your behalf as well - this is banned in the UK and I believe in the USA.

 

They cannot just write to your employer and ask them to deduct most of your salary to pay for this.

 

One has to keep asking why no other contact was made from 2006 until now as they seem to have a lot of information sources available to them.

[coledog]

Blueraider and Hatehfo

 

Just re-read this to check. I really think that the best advice here is to ignore the HFO threats and contact, try and get a SAR request to the original creditors to get as much information as you can about the original debt and send as many complaints as you can to the authorities in the UK, particulaly OFT and ICO, about the threats and contact with employers/family.

 

The latter will hopefully get something done about the blatant malpractices of this company particularly with regard to personal data.

[sillygirl1]

Don't forget the Ministry of Justice, they need to know this company is breaking the law in other countries and they have the powqer to close them down for this.

[hatehfo]

What a bunch of tossers, I just received the same mail (#32) to my work address (addressed to me) today.

[coledog]

Hi Hatehfo (love that name by the way)

 

I can only repeat that these people are desperate and depending on brute force (and they not very clever). Ignore them, they cannot touch you in the US and complain to every UK agency you can contact on line, as this is the only way to put a stop to them. They have no right to be abusing your data or you. Absolute liberty!

[hatehfo]

Found out this information about HFO services from csa-uk.com/uk-members-list/details/190/hfo-services-limited

 

HFO Services Limited

 

Services: Consumer Debt Collection

Contact: Ms M Durrent

 

Telephone: 01932 333 800

Address: Roxburghe House, Lavender Park Road, West Byfleet, KT14 6NA

 

 

Hi Hatehfo (love that name by the way)

 

I can only repeat that these people are desperate and depending on brute force (and they not very clever). Ignore them, they cannot touch you in the US and complain to every UK agency you can contact on line, as this is the only way to put a stop to them. They have no right to be abusing your data or you. Absolute liberty!

[Taormina]

Hi there, Watching with interest. Anyway... I have this about personal data and transfer to other countries that might be of interest for you...

 

http://www.pillsburylaw.com/siteFiles/Publications/53016C2FC6DE909CB7B290880910B8AD.pdf

[coledog]

Excellent link.

 

Hatehfo

 

HFO are part of a murky bunch of companies ultimately run by Turnbull Rutherford solicitors based in Wimbledon, SW19 -why they are still operating is a mystery to many.

 

You must make some complaints about their threats and abuse of personal data. Below is a link to the OFT guidelines which will be of interest and you should complain/send copies of correspondence to OFT, ICO (use of personal data), Ministry of Justice, Solicitors Regulatory Association (mention the TR association) all can be done on line or by email.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?416-The-OFT-Debt-collection-guidance

[hatehfo]

Thank you! I'll get the ball rolling, will write an email to OFT, UK tonight.

[hatehfo]

Hi Coledog,

 

So after ignoring their phone calls and letters, finally they replied back to my email yesterday which I had initially send to them in first week of October asking them to provide more documentation and CCA to which they responded

"In order to satisfy your request, we will require this in writing by post with a payment of the statutory fee of £1.00 by cheque or postal order. We shall not be able to process your request till you comply with this. If we do not receive your payment by October 20th, 2010, we will consider your request as withdrawn and further activities on your account will continue.

Also, please note that your account has an active interest of 12% APR which is increasing the balance on a daily basis. Now, once we will receive this in writing from you the whole process may take 1-2 months time. Alternatively, you can come on a payment arrangement which would help you to stop the escalation of this matter and freeze the interest."

After this I sent them a couple of emails asking for 'address and who to make the postal order to'; to which I didn't get a response till yesterday.

 

"

Dear Mr. XXXX

Our grave apologies for the delayed response. Kindly mail the payment to the following address:

 

 

HFO SERVICES LIMITED

 

P.O.BOX 342

 

LAVENDER PARK ROAD

 

WEST BYFLEET, SURREY

 

KT14 6YX

 

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Credit Control Team

 

HFO Services Limited

0203 450 0529

"

Now, I'm thinking to send them a CCA request along with 1GBP postal order and wanted know what are your thoughts?

Thanks!

 

 

 

Hi Hatehfo (love that name by the way)

 

I can only repeat that these people are desperate and depending on brute force (and they not very clever). Ignore them, they cannot touch you in the US and complain to every UK agency you can contact on line, as this is the only way to put a stop to them. They have no right to be abusing your data or you. Absolute liberty!

Edited November 11, 2010 by hatehfo

[coledog]

Hi

 

Will you be sending this from a UK address and do HFO actually know that you are in the USA?

[hatehfo]

They know I'm in the US. I have received two letters from them in the past 1 to my US home address and the other to my work address. I mentioned it earlier in my previous posts.

 

Hi

 

Will you be sending this from a UK address and do HFO actually know that you are in the USA?

[coledog]

Yes understood, sorry. Just wondering if you are going to use a UK address to send this.

 

This is the link to the request letter in the library, also, I think that the SAR request to the original creditor would be useful (see previous posts)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter.

[sillygirl1]

12% interest - they shouldn't be charging this at all, at most they can do 8% statutory interest especially as they don't have the original credit agreement, or even a copy of it.

 

This company really are sharks.

[hatehfo]

So from what I understand, no matter if the debt is SB or not; if a person is no longer UK resident and a DCA gets a CCJ based on the old UK address knowing that I'm now living abroad, the CCJ can be set aside?