Council Tax

[nikkiandmidgets]

My mums ex boyfriend kept her council tax money instaead of going in to pay it as she thought he was doing - result was she got in arrears. As she has little free funds this accumulated over the years and she now owes several years. Debts were passed to Scott and Co and she was initially paying them £80 per month via direct debit. She is not sure if she missed payments as she has money problems but the direct debit was cancelled and scott and Co took her to court and she got her bank acct arrested. this failed as she didnt have money in her account. they then arrested her wages and now she has just over £170 coming off every month before she gets her wages. Due to this she cannot hope to pay the current council tax so they contacted her and the minimum they would accept for this years was £40 per month. They threatened to have her made bankrupt otherwise. She is 54 years old and is scared she will lose her house next year as she will not be able to afford more payments, she eats at her work and stays at my sisters when working to save on bus fares when she can. She cant afford a social life though she does smoke but smokes duty free tobacco and occasionally treats herself to cigarettes if she gets enough tips.

 

Any advice on what she can do? My sister gets away with only paying them £20 per month on her arrears but this is supposedly because she stuck to the agreement? Is her only option to sell her house and apply for council housing before her next council tax bill? I am away to get her statements from bank etc to begin process for bank charges, with her funds the way they are I am sure she will have lots to claim and plan to get her to use this money to reduce her debts.

[gbzstro]

Hang on let me get his clear

 

Firstly, your Mother avoids paying ANY tax duty on the cigarettes that she smokes and then fails to pay or declare ANY tax on part of her earnings.

 

If you think that the local council have been unfairly harsh with regards to your unpaid council tax bill – you wait until Customs and Excise or the inland revenue come knocking at the door – they have even more powers of enforcement and come down VERY hard on people who avoid paying tax.

 

My only suggestion would be to look at ALL your outgoings (you mentioned that your Mother subscribes to Sky TV and has a mobile phone on another thread.)

 

Get rid of these and you will have the money to pay back the council. Also try reading over http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ to see if you can save money in other area also.

 

Good Luck!

[nikkiandmidgets]

My mother doesnt have a social life, is single because my dad was a gambler and used to spend all his wages before she got them, my step father sexually abused my sister and her boyfriend cheated on her and stole any money she gave him to pay bills and spent it on himself. She has little trust of men and has no friends she can go out with or can afford to go out with, She never goes out for meals or gets take away unless me or my sisters treat her for babysitting - would that be unpaid tax too along with her tips (I am presuming thats what you are saying is unpaid income tax?) of about £10 a week. She is not clued up on forms etc so would not even know where to start filling in forms to admit this tax and as other bars, restaurants and social clubs dont keep tabs or force people to declare tips I would guess she is not alone there. As for her cigarettes, she pays £20 for £200 once a month from my sisters boyfriend who works abroad. He offered her them for free as a gift but she doesnt like being considered a charity case and feels at £20 she is already getting them for half price. She has been smoking for 40 years, back when the government were encouraging smoking and has tried to stop but has been unsuccessful. Now as she feels her life is crap she says smoking is her only pleasure in life and helps her cope with stress.

 

As for the Sky I would guess thats her other pleasure in life. We dont have digital up here and the channels she watches are not available on freeview. Plus she has grandkids who visit and my sister and her baby stay with her most of the time so even I feel the £17.99 a month she pays is worth it and an acceptable expense. She spends more money on her bus fares to get to work than she does on her food and cleaning products etc for house so its not like she is wasting money.

 

Yes she knows she made mistakes financially in the past but where she stayed at home raising kids from the age of 17 till late 40's with only part time jobs to fit in with the kids till they left school and with her skills more practical than academic, she lost out on the chance of building a career for herself. She only goes on holiday if I treat her and has only ever been acroad with me as I took and paid for her before I had kids for company and to give her a break.

 

I did not realise these forums were to judge people, I thought they were to make suggestions or offer advice. I know of people who do a lot worse than my mum. She has no car so saves a lot that way. She doesnt waste money or alcohol, taxis, meals out or nice clothes to take the sting out of the fact she is living to work and has been since her split from my stepfather as any spare money in the past she spent on her kids and making them happy. I cannot grudge her the £40 or so a month she spends on her Sky and cigarettes cos I dont think she'd see the point of living without them (apart for her grandkids), and I am sure people in worse financial circumstances than my mum spend more than that on themselves. She could stop all this but that £40 would not make a change to her circumstances and would not help wipe out a debt within the next 2-3 years and improve her financial circumstances so she could see the benefits as its a drop in the ocean compared to what she owes the poll tax and council tax and her life would still stink.

 

I appreciate what you say about reducing her outgoings so as the £40 is pretty much the only saving she can make till she gets money from the bank for her charges I guess she will have to sell her house, pay her creditors off and then apply for a council house as she is too old and her wage too low for her to be able to buy a house in todays housing market. I may be divorcing my husband as he has had 2 affairs in last 13 months (cant help himself in Asia) while I was looking after our daughter and pregnant with the second one and they are only 20 months and 10.5 months old now so may try and get a house together with her as its only way we will both be able to afford somewhere and I am young enough to get more years on a mortgage so should manage to get somewhere, just got to decide whether to stay with my husband and move to Panama next month or leave him. Think my family is cursed with men!

[gbzstro]

What a mess if you don’t mind me saying. If I understand this correctly your mum needs to find £40 / month to pay off the council tax. If she can do this then the house will be saved??

 

I would say first dump the sky, check that she has the best deal possible on all the rest of her utility bills, Suggest that she take on some extra part time work for 6 months. Can you contribute to her some money per Month. Anything to try and raise the £40 required. Also I would take the money direct to the council to avoid any further hic ups with the bank in the future.

 

And yes request from the bank your statements etc and go after them for any charges etc. You may find that you can cover the council tax from these alone.

 

But first you MUST try and make the £40 / month to buy you some time.

[nikkiandmidgets]

The story is she is paying just over £170 direct off her wages to Scott and Co for Poll Tax\Council Tax. She remortgaged her house last year and used the extra funds to pay other debts and paid last years council tax. She pays £30 a month to student loans company (She has never earned above limit to have to pay the £1000 off but as she didnt fill in deferments (she says she didnt know she had to and didnt receive any forms) they caught up with her just before she turned 50 and after lots of letters back in forth with her explaining her low wages, her age and that she hadnt received any forms or realised she had to send them in annually she agreed this figure with them. The £40 a month is towards this years but obviously will take 3 years to pay off. My sister and I can help her with this but my situation may make that impossible in future as if I divorce and husband leaves the country he could easily not give me any money for our kids! Also my sisters baby is 8 months old so it would be her family allowance\partners wages she would be utilising so we cannot fund her indefinately. She will then have the same rigmarole next year and every year as she doesnt have the money to pay her £120 per month council tax, or even a percentage of it. Unfortunately she works split shifts, has to cover the other cooks days off, works a minimum of 42 hours but can work 70-80 when there are functions\outings at the golf club, stay at my sisters if working late or early the next morning as she cant get buses to get to her work otherwise, and holidays and has rheumatoid arthritis, hammer toe and is generally in poor health so really cant fit in or manage an extra job or she would have found a key cleaning job but would have to be beside my sisters. I think its unfortunate but unless I split with hubby and go back to work when my maternity leave ends in November, I think she will have to sell up. Have already sorted her utilities out for her but cause of her age and fact she remortgaged last year there is not a lot I can do about her £565 she pays for her mortgage but she does only have just under 9 years to go on that.

 

Thanks for your help though

[paulson1985]

Your mum needs to first contact her council,

 

Explain to them her financial situation.

 

Write to them and explain that she cannot afford the payments they are asking her to pay.

They will most likley sent her a form with her incoming earnings and her outgouing payments .

Hopefully they will be able to help her.

It is very important that she states she is not refusing to pay the money , but that she needs more time

[bathgatebuyer]

Speak to the Council's own Trading Standards Dept - they are often willing to contact creditors and the like and advise them of the circumstances of the person in question.

 

If the Council's own TS team write to the Council Tax people, surely that counts for something.

[Rich44]

Get that deferrment in on the student loan as well thats very nearly your £40 a month there on its own without touching anything else.

 

As for the duty free tobacco I dont really think the OP needed a lecture about that to be fair and not to mention that it's only an offence IF she's then buying it from someone if someone is getting it for her whilst over there anyway then she's not doing anything wrong smoking it. I don't mean to sound harsh or rude but people come here looking for help not judgment there are ways of wording things in that regard so as to not sound so judgmental on people

[clearmydebts]

Very well spoken Rich 44.

If gbzstro had been that hip on his own accounting, he wont be on this forum to dish judgement.

I strongly believe we all here are a collective help not a judge and jury panel.

i will strongly advice Nickyandmidgets to contact her local council or CAB for advice IMMEDIATELY or better still PM one of the mods- Bankfodder or Martin himself and seek expert opinion. iam sure you will receive a sympathetic ear and high quality advice.

[gbzstro]

My tone has been completely misunderstood.

 

Anyway not to distract from nikkiandmidgets original question which in summary is .. find £40 per month or face possible bankruptcy then I believe that my advice is more than vaild! (if indeed short and strigh to the point) – look at your outgoings and see what you can trim off in order to make ends meet. In nikkies mum’s case she has already cut every thing to the bone and is still short the £40 then overall what is the big deal about SKY? £17.99 a month is very much a luxury item when you are on the verge of bankruptcy!!

Getting rid of the mobile might free up some more so you are now halfway there. Now you are looking at £5 / week to find.

With out further details of your circumstances then I can not comment on how you could obtain / save this but I bet that it can be done.

[nikkiandmidgets]

Hi all. Thanks for all the advice and sorry if I misunderstood your comments gbzstro - havent had a good run of things myself what with my wonderful husband and his latest girlfriend Ivy from Singapore who incidently is a nice girl but thats a different story. Need to take my mind of that stuff so hence why I am trying to help my mum and on the net all times of day and night! Anyway, she cant put a deferment in on her student loan as they say all the loan is due because she never ever put a deferment in. I never even knew she took one out till she got chased up for the money and she has a bad habit of burying her head in the sand yet my sister and I always bail her out but now neither of us are working and have babies so its a different story.

 

I think she will have to sell her house. My youngest sister who stays with her 90% of time and has a daughter who is 13 months old will probably finally get housed by the council out of it - she has been waiting on the lists for 19 months so far but doesnt want a skyscraper or anything with a lot of stairs, and that will mean my youngest sister and her partner can live together, which means something good will come out of all this. About time my sister found out just how expensive it is to stand up on your own two feet and try to keep a house with a baby too.

 

The council tax think will just get worse and worse, at £40 a month it will take 3 years to pay each year off so if they add £40 a month on each year then eventually she will have to pay £120 for council tax arrears along with the £178 in the wages arrestment, and will have to keep negotiating payments with them till the Scott and Co arrestment is cleared. She wants to change job to one that is less physical but cant face the mortification of the wages arrestment at a new employment, she found this one bad enough.

 

She will not have to declare herself bankrupt though as due to the discount she got cos her house was a council one, she will have about £45000 from the house sale which will clear her feet but will not enable her to get anywhere else, or get a mortgage. When i was working I did offer to buy a share of her house off her to clear her feet and give her money to live on and a life again but my husband put his foot down as it meant that even once I paid off the loan or mortgage the capital would be tied up till she died. I see his point of view but his parents are financially successful and together whereas my mum has basically been a single parent since her and my stepdad split up about 15 years ago. She is not a bad person, she helps me in every way except financially but has been there for me whenever I needed her, its just she is no use with paperwork, small print, finances and confrontation.

 

Her mobile is a pay as you go and I put about £10 in it bimonthly as we all tend to text each other - easier when you have little ones as reduces risk of the phone waking them when they are just dropping off and means you can reply at a time that suits you. She doesnt put anything it it as she cant afford to.

 

By the way who is CCCS?

[elsinore]

Hi nikkiandmidgets, it's the Consumer Credit Counselling Service. Read about it here CCCS -

 

Elsinore

[Rich44]

Fair play gbzstro that your comments were misconstrued but there are ways of wording things so that it doesnt look like you are judging people and your first post did come across rather harsh.

 

nikkiandmidgets if you contact the student loan people you can now make a deferrment and you may even be able to get what your mum has paid when she shouldnt have done back. That's £30 a month of your £40 to start with and I suggest if that was all you could raise then start paying that to the council

 

A very good friend of ours works at CCCS and they're excellent if they cant help you well I dont know who can

[denzil69]

WOW! nikki....

 

this is just my advice, based on past experiences, dealing with council tax/poll tax arrears.

 

DO NOT sell off assets to pay arrears. the citizen's advice people can really help you with this. arrears are classed as low priority debts.

 

from reading thru this thread, all is not lost.

 

paying £170 to a debt collection agency for arrears, as this year's bill is a priority debt, i would guess, that the CAB would negotiate on your behalf with this company to drop the payments being taken from your wages.

 

a common finding is that debt collection agencies are very good at scaring the pants off people, when truth be told that all the courts are concerned with payment being to cover priority debts first and foremost.

 

we all fall into difficulty with finances now and again, some on a grand scale some on a small scale, but it happens.

 

i would suggest you no longer believe what debt companies are saying to you, they are only concerned with recovering their debt as quick as possible. i would seek out a solicitor, not only to help you, but to highlight your rights!

 

for example;

one company i was having trouble with phoned me about paying a debt off with them consistantly, sunday mornings at 8am, bank holidays, in one 14 day period alone, they rang me 16 times!

they made arrangements with me over the phone, and then rang me the same afternoon, telling me the advisor hadnt put the agreement on the notes, etc.

they made various veiled threats, saying they would send an advisor round to the house to talk my debt through and sort out terms etc.

 

i spoke with a solicitor friend, who told me about the administration of justice act.

under that act, phoning and visiting the house, is seen as harassment of a would be debtor, and is unlawful. he told me to point out the act to a manager at the company, and request politely that future contact should be made only in writing.

 

the phone calls and promised visits stopped immeadiately!

 

that alone took the pressure off. i then consulted the CAB, who took control of my finances, took a statement of high and low priority debts and living expenses, and all mail was directed to them, and they simply told low piority debts arrears etc, that at present only a token payment could be made. dropped my monthly payments on a couple of them to £5 per calendar month. one of these was a £900 poll tax arrears debt, which i had been hassled into paying £50 per week off!

 

of course, once my circumstances improved i paid more off, but it stopped all the stress and hassle and worry that i was having.

 

i think its fair to assume that no court in the land, would make you pay £170 per month off an arrears debt (low priority), when you cannot cover your living costs and current year's high priority debts.

 

i urge you to contact citizens advice or a solicitor without delay, and get someone fighting back on your behalf.

 

Good luck

[taylor-rae]

wow........a lot of info here!

 

I have only had a quick scan, but one question:- was the boyfriend on the council tax bill ? May of missed that detail. If he was, then he is liable for half the debt.

[nikkiandmidgets]

Hiya Rich44,

My mum gets pretty confused with all this paperwork stuff and when she got this she had lots of other debts she was being chased for but as far as she recalls she believes she spoke to them and they said there was nothing they could do as she had never logged a deferment. If I get all the info together and draft an email would your friend be able to give me an email address to send a query to? Its got to be worth a final try?!

 

As for council tax my mum had my two sisters staying there and she knew her boyfriends credit history was poor so not sure if she added him or not. One sister was under 18 but other would have been 18-19 then.

 

Scott and Co got the wages thing done by the court and my mum said she filled in something about income and expenditure so would have guessed that the courts would have decided that was a fair amount. She is really bad with any sort of paperwork, wasnt so bad before I met my husband and had kids cos I lived closer to her, saw her more and she showed me letters she was concerned about and I helped where I could, not so easy now as have my hands full, dont drive and live 35 miles away. I think she must have been embarrased about some of her debts so missed them out as I cant understand how they come up with thus figure. Think I will write to them on her behalf and get sums owed etc from them and ask whether it would be them or the council she would contact for a review on her payments to see if I can get the figures revised.

 

Would try CAB but their hours are bad, her shifts at work are still hectic just now due to it being a Golf Club and the weather being good, and its diffucult to get a person on the end of the phone, usually just get busy msg saying to try later. Last time I called it took me 2 weeks to get through of phoning on and off every day they were open, and then the kids were such a pain I didnt ask as much as I wanted to!

 

Thanks again for all advice. Am sending off a pile of DPA's on Monday, just one for my mum at moment as have still to get all her acct details for her closed credit cards, Littlewoods flexible, old mortgage etc! That will be fun and am sure I will be asking advice as although I have been reading through everything, I find that as I have a lot on my mind just now and kids keep me very busy, my memory and concentration span is nowhere near what it used to be and I also lack confidence so will be asking for reassurance! So apologies to everyone in advance.....

[Guest strangewayofsavin]

Hi, a tactic used in other areas may work here; I am not a financial advisor, and only offer an idea that works in other situations. If your mum’s local authority accept, she could offer something that’s called a deferred payment.

A deferred payment would be like a second charge on her property, like a secured loan without the interest. How does it work? Lets say your mum owes the council £3000, she offers the council the deferred payment, by letting them put a £3000 charge on her house for 4 years, over this 4 years you pay back approx £60 per month, meaning she can pay the arrears and this years council tax bill, after the 4 years if the debt is settled, the council remove the charge. The finer points (like reducing the charge annually) would have to be drawn up in the agreement.

Whilst the charge is on her house, should she sell etc. the council would have to be payed before the sale completed, so it’s a bit of security for them as well.

If the council refuse this offer, you would have to get legal advice, but I cannot see a judge granting a forced sale, if your mum came up with a realistic option like the one above, trying to get out of debt, without borrowing anymore money, as I say see what they say, and get some advice from Citizens advice, they are very good and free.

[Guest peed orf]

Any luck yet?

[nikkiandmidgets]

My mum got forms to fill in about her financial situation and the good resuolt is that it has been agreed that she cannot afford to pay any more than she is already paying so I guess all her poll tax\council tax debt will be lumped into one account and her payments will reduce them. Will mean she will always be paying her council tax through a debt collector so guess I will have to investigate further as that means every bill will have charges on it but immediate threat is passed.

 

Next time I am at my mums and if the kids behave I will look through her paperwork and see what correspondance she has had from Student Loans and Council \Sherrifs officers and draft some letters to try and get better solutions in place. If kids are being little monsters then will just have to take the whole lot home and have a look at it in the early hours of the morning!

 

The annoying thing is if she has to phone then she wont do it cos she gets flustered and would end up backing down from any confrontation and agreeing to god knows what, yet most of these companies will not deal with me as I am not the name on the acct.

 

Oh well not sure when I will next be at my mums, my 'wonderful' husband is due home tonight so maybe once he heads off to his next job I can organise my sister to take me or collect the paperwork for me and bring it down next time she is visiting. God I hate not being able to drive!

[Bookworm]

The annoying thing is if she has to phone then she wont do it cos she gets flustered and would end up backing down from any confrontation and agreeing to god knows what, yet most of these companies will not deal with me as I am not the name on the acct.

 

 

Well, she shouldn't do anything by phone anyway.

And make sure she writes a letter to whoever, giving you permission to speak on her behalf, keep a signed copy with you, and set up a password in case you do need to phone.

 

If she gives permission, they can't refuse to talk to you.

[nikkiandmidgets]

Have just typed a letter asking if the council will consider a charge on her property for the outstanding council tax. Have explained that due to finances she is unable to pay the wages arrestment and her current council tax so that way she could pay current and something towards arrears and they would have security of getting the arrears repaid. It also menas that she would not receive charges every year for not paying her council tax and it getting passed to sherrifs officers. Have mentioned that she wants to change job to one less demanding but feels its awkward as at moment her new employer would need to be made aware of the arrestment order on her wages. Have also asked if they believe that my mum may be due to a rebate as my younger sister and her 14 month old stay with her and she is in receipt of Family Credit based on her partners wages (He stays at his mum and dads house while they wait ti get housed), and if so, could they send out the relevant forms. Have also asked if its possible that this can be backdated to last year. Wont be posting it till Monday so if anyone has any advice etc then feel free! Will update the post when my mum hears from them. She has also received a pension statement with a value of approx £2000 that she had with an old employer - as she is 54 I feel that as a pension its not going to be of benefit to her so have sent a letter to them asking if it is possible to take the cash out of it - if it is then this will go towards her council tax and student loan.

[caro]

This is the 3rd time in 2 days that a moderator has had to remind you of the forum rules regarding being offensive and abusive towards other users. As you say yourself, we're supposed to help people not condemn them. This applies even if we do not agree with their point of view.

[nikkiandmidgets]

Is this aimed at me? I havent been on the forum for ages but mine is the last comment? Am hoping to kick off my stuff again, been busy trying to fix my marriage and have gone back to work so less days to fit everything in!

[caro]

I had to moderate another users post, although I think another mod has now removed it completely nikki, so please be assured I am aiming nothing at you. Nothing to worry about.