Cabot - Halifax Credit Card - Cabot now started Court Action - Help Please ***SETTLED***

[lamb909]

I'm away to my bed now, anti d's making me sleepy. Thanks everybody for your input, its been a long day. Hopefully I wont wake up in the morning

Appreciate any help/advice anyone has to offer so please keep posting.

[Bazooka Boo]

. I think I need your "Good luck"

 

Of course you don't! It is THEM that rely on "good luck"!

 

YOU "ARE" in control .....

[caro]

It was hit and miss in my day.

 

I think Cabot will have difficulty with the default notice & assignment, that's why I didn't go for proof in my first suggestion. I would want to see what they had. Do Claimants comply with CPR requests nowadays?

Since the Carey case which I think was December 2009 the courts seem to invariably accept reconstituted agreements, and as they don't keep DNs I believe that the courts will also accept witness statements re DNs etc. If they believe you've borrowed the money they don't seem too worried about dotting the i's and crossing the t's. If there was no DN or a faulty DN then it is very easy for this to be put right, and a court will adjourn a case to allow this to happen.

 

I think the big question here would be is the money owed to Cabot.

 

If a CPR request is submitted I believe they should respond but it won't necessarily provide all you want. No harm in trying though and will show the defendant is actively trying to resolve the situation.

Edited May 15, 2011 by caro

[rippedoffagain]

Things change, although I would have thought two agreements ought to cause them problems. We know HBOS is the parent to Halifax, but they are still two entities. To allow a reconstructed agreement from the Halifax is one thing, but to produce a HBOS agreement is taking the mick.

[lamb909]

Sorry, its just BOS recon, not a HBOS. I got that wrong, sorry

[rippedoffagain]

Sorry, its just BOS recon, not a HBOS. I got that wrong, sorry

 

 

Makes no difference, did you sign two agreements?

[lamb909]

No.

 

If I understand this right, I should stick with the simple points you have posted as my defense?

If not, should I be looking at add something else?

Or wait to see if/when Cabot reply?

 

If they don't, what kind of things (if any) should I be looking for to add to my defense?

 

Thanks in advance

[The Mould]

No.

 

If I understand this right, I should stick with the simple points you have posted as my defense?

If not, should I be looking at add something else?

Or wait to see if/when Cabot reply?

 

If they don't, what kind of things (if any) should I be looking for to add to my defense?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Hello Lamb

 

As stated previously, wait and see if the claimant responds to said CPR request for disclosure.

 

You have said that you sent said request by special delivery, check the date he received it, then he has 7 days from date of receipt of the same in order to supply you with copies of documents you have requested.

 

I feel that I should advise you that filing a 'simple' defence, may end up costing you as much as £3k in extra costs if the claimant succeeds with his claim against you. Said defence is often referred to as an 'embarrassed defence'.

 

The template draft defence example that I posted on Pg7 post #127 is how you need to lay your defence out, forget the contents of said example, but copy the format thereof.

 

Do not worry about legal parlance, simply write your defence (when the time comes) in good old plain, clear and concise English, just as you do here.

 

Try and see if you can find those statutory notices in your own records, if you don't have the original, then put the claimant to strict proof on service of the same.

 

When did the claimant receive your CPR request?

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[caro]

I feel that I should advise you that filing a 'simple' defence, may end up costing you as much as £3k in extra costs if the claimant succeeds with his claim against you. Said defence is often referred to as an 'embarrassed defence'.

 

I beg to differ with you on this one Mould. An embarassed defence is when you claim that you are embarassed by the POC. Simply to say you need the original agreement etc is not enough.

 

By a simple defence I mean a defence in the LIPs own words without worrying about legal parlance. I see no reason why this should result in costs.

 

It has been well established that an embarassed defence is rarely appropriate unless you have absolutely no idea what the claim is about, which is not the case here I believe.

Edited May 16, 2011 by caro

[lamb909]

I don't have the originals of the statutory notices, not sure if I ever received them so do I write to the Claimant again and ask for them, how word I owrd "to strict proof"? And if so, how many days does he have to reply etc

 

Apologies for all the questions

[caro]

Hello Lamb

 

As stated previously, wait and see if the claimant responds to said CPR request for disclosure.

 

You have said that you sent said request by special delivery, check the date he received it, then he has 7 days from date of receipt of the same in order to supply you with copies of documents you have requested.

 

I feel that I should advise you that filing a 'simple' defence, may end up costing you as much as £3k in extra costs if the claimant succeeds with his claim against you. Said defence is often referred to as an 'embarrassed defence'.

 

The template draft defence example that I posted on Pg7 post #127 is how you need to lay your defence out, forget the contents of said example, but copy the format thereof.

 

Do not worry about legal parlance, simply write your defence (when the time comes) in good old plain, clear and concise English, just as you do here.

 

Try and see if you can find those statutory notices in your own records, if you don't have the original, then put the claimant to strict proof on service of the same.

 

When did the claimant receive your CPR request?

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

 

Oh dear I was confused by your post Mould. I thought you were saying post 127 was a suggested defence, but having wasted time going through the confusing contents in it I realise all you're saying is that is the way you consider it should be laid out. I'm used to templates just being the bare bones of a document.

 

Right Lamb to business.

 

Can you please post a list of bullet points of what's happened (including dates) that have led to this.

 

Also, realistically, what would be the best outcome of this for you?

[lamb909]

• On (or around) 1 August I received a letter from Cabot asking me to repay Halifax debt
  
• On (or around) 3 August I sent a CCA request
  
• On 25th August I received a reply to my CCA request from Cabot, they had sent me recon cca’s for both Halifax & BOS
  

On 8 September 2010 I received a letter from Cabot stating they had bought the account I held with Halifax

• On 20 September I received a letter from Cabot asking me to contact them
  
• On 11 October I sent a letter to Cabot stating the “Account was in dispute” as they had not fully complied with my CCA request, had just sent recon agreements
  
• On 19 October I received a letter from Cabot asking me to contact them
  
• On 24 October I received a letter from Cabot saying they had made several requests for the copies of the agreement but were still awaiting this information, though Halifax had supplied Statements, and they had included a statement of account (I did not get this) unless it is what I thought was a sales invoice between Halifax and Cabot. They state the info I have been given is sufficient evidence that the account exists. These statements do not have Halifax or BOS printed on them anywhere, all there is is right at the bottom, the address of Card Service on one line
  
• On 2 November I receive a letter from Cabot relating “to your letter received on 15 October stating I had received a true copy of my original CCA and a true copy of the varied agreement applicable to my account at the time it was terminated
  
• On 19 November I sent another “Account in Dispute letter
  
• On 13 December I received a letter from Cabot stating they will send another request to Halifax for a signed copy of my agreement and that they are unable to guarantee they can get one. It goes on to say they will not enter into any further correspondence with me regarding this matter as they have continually responded to the issues I raised.
  
• On 31 December Cabot sent another letter asking me to call them to arrange repayment
  
• On 14 February Cabot sent a letter stating the account had been escalated to their Pre Litigation Department etc etc
  
• On 28 February Cabot sent another letter to advise me the account is in default and the full amount is payable immediately
  
• On 28 March I received a letter from Morgan’s Solicitors (same address as Cabot) stating saying my account is in default and despite letters etc you have failed to settle this account and the FULL BALANCE is now payable immediately. I can call to arrange a payment plan. It says this is a very important letter and I am obliged to respond to this letter by writing to us by virtue of the Practice Direction to pre-action protocols within the Civil Procedure rules 1998. If we do not receive a response with one month legal proceedings will be issued against me without any further notice or warning to yourself. If you intend to represent yourself in any forthcoming legal proceedings we can provide you with a copy of the Practice Directions upon request. We are obliged to inform you that should you not comply with Practice Direction; the court has the power to impose sanctions which may include cost sanctions. Pre-printed signature "Morgan"
  

On 6 May received court papers that were posted on 3 May

The reason the first 2 dates are 'around' is because I haven't got copies of these letters becuase my PC crashed and all that was on it, and it was unrepairable. Needless to say I now have hard copies of all letters

[lamb909]

Also, realistically, what would be the best outcome of this for you?

 

I want to avoid getting a CCJ. All I can afford to pay is £1 per month, the same as my other cerditors whose agreements have been enforecable si it would take over 3000 months to repay. I know I should not 'rely' on advice given on CAG but I have taken the said advice and made my own decsions believeing, as others said, it was unenforecable. I must state that I do not blame anyone whatsoever for their advoce, I took it of my own free will. I am suffering more with MH conditions since I received the court papers. It won't go away so realistically I would like it be proven unenforeable. That is not to say I want to avoid paying ny debts, those DCA's who have been ok and provided me with proof the debt was enforeable I am paying but I refuse to be hounded like a dog and treated like the lowest of the low

[caro]

Okay thanks.

 

You say that you're paying other creditors £1 a month. Are you in a DMP?

[lamb909]

Okay thanks.

 

You say that you're paying other creditors £1 a month. Are you in a DMP?

 

No, I'm not Caro, I did contact CCCS and Payplan but becuase I'd lost my job they said I couldn't afford to repay my debts so just to offer a taken amount until I can find work again (which is proving very difficult), they said they couldn't do a DMP for paying token payments at £1 a month so I have just been muddling through the best I can with the help of CAG. I've had some debts from when I was just a lurker on here but taking advice off various threads that have proven to be unenforecable and the OC's/DCA's have said no further action will be taken but the debt will remain on my CR so they've been ok. It was just as I started getting difficult DCA's that I joined CAG

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I notice Cabot don't refer to their default in the later correspondence.

[caro]

Thanks for the info lamb.

 

I'm trying to get some better informed advice than I can offer for you. Have you told Cabot that you can't afford anything? I'm just a bit concerned that your arguments are all based on technicalities which we've seen aren't overly successful, so trying to think outside the box a bit.

 

How do you feel about sending a budget sheet to show that you can't afford to pay anything back, or at least no more than £1 a month? I'm just thinking that you might be able to get them to withdraw the claim if you can reach an agreement with them.

 

It is possible to do a DMP yourself, and if you show that you are doing this and other creditors are accepting reduced payments, they might be hard pressed not to do the same. If they do decide to carry on to court it can't harm your case to show that you have are actively trying to resolve the problem. You've obviously been doing this anyway, even if you haven't called it a DMP.

 

Sequenci has done some good blogs on debt management plans which I would recommend you read, and there's also a good thread here.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?289118-At-the-end-of-your-tether-an-alternative-debt-management-strategy&p=3247226&viewfull=1

 

If you don't think this is for you then fair enough, but I just think it might help you and take the pressure off.

[lamb909]

I don't know Caro, I understand what you are saying but I don't think for a minute, after reading other Cabot threads, here and elsewhere, that they will agree to stop Court Proceedings at all just to get a paymnet of £1 per month. If they do get a CCJ, they will only get £1 per month anyway as my outgoings are more than my income.

 

The majority of me wants to take it to court, which will hopefully resolve in my favour. They state they have requested the CCA, they obviously haven't got it and whilst I undersatnd what you are saying DJ's allowing recon agreements, but I think I want to fight, i may lose but i nothing to lose really, only a CCJ.

 

Whilst some people say a recon agreement is acceptable and I understand that but to me if they want me to pay the debt I want to see documentation saying so, with my signature, dated, the right personal details, the right T&C's etc why should I believe that they have any right to collect. They could easily send these recon agreements to 10 other DCA's who will then write to me saying they are collecting the same debt, who do I pay then?

 

If they had provided the original CCA, and it was enforeacble then i would happily pay them £1 per month.

 

Yes I owe money, not denying the fact but its up to them to prove it, so far, as I'm concerned, they haven't so why should I pay. If DCA's act withing the law/follow the correct prodeures thats fine but been hounded by constant telephone calls and letters, issueing threats and then, as stated in the letter, they refuse to corresspondance with me further, as though I am just a parrot sat on there shoulder. They act as we mere mortals are lesser people and somebody has got to stand up and say "No we wont have this, we will fight"

 

The DCA industry is corrupt and if we don't stand up for ourselves, who will stand up for us, its got to come from us.

[lamb909]

Sorry, got a bit cross then. It wasn't aimed at you Caro, you have been nothing but helpful and kind and trying to find different ways for me to deal with this, I appreciate your help very much.

[caro]

No problem Lamb, and I understand where you're coming from. Sometimes people can get caught up in a sort of rollercoaster that it can be hard to see a way off it. Whatever you decide you have my support for what it's worth.

 

Mould has mentioned the Harrison v Link case, and in no small part that case was to do with harassment, which may well be useful for your defence.

 

The reconstructed agreement problem arose due to the McGuffick v RBS andCarey v HSBC cases, so if you aren't familiar with that case you need to be. There's a discussion on it linked below http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?240186-Dissecting-the-Manchester-Test-Case

 

Frankly I don't think arguments about DNs are much use, although if there is the argument about if the debt is terminated and you need to pay the full amount or if it's just the arrears. Not sure that really makes a difference because at the end of the day the amount is the same and you still have a CCJ. The good thing about that is that unless you own your own property and later go for a charging order there's not a lot else they can do once you've been to court as long as you pay the amount the judge says.

 

Are there likely to be charges or PPI included in the amount being claimed?

[lamb909]

thanks Caro, there was no PPi and the charges added up to 6 x £24 so no a great deal and if taken off the balance still leaves a balance of £3000.

I do owe my own property so a charging order is a concern, though there is still my ex's name on the mortgage but we are stuck in a cycle that she can't afford to buy me out and vice versa. I don't know if Cabot are aware of this but I am sure they could, if the wanted to, find out about it

[lamb909]

My CPR request was signed for on 16 May so do they have 7 days from then to reply or 7 days from postage? Or have I got it all wrong?

[caro]

If your letter wasn't clear I would say they should have 7 days from receiving it.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes I agree I have seen aknowledgement letter sating that a company has 7 days from receipt to respond.

[lamb909]

Thank you both, Caro, what do you mean when you say if my letter wasn't clear, bit confused, I just got it from here, sorry