N1 Claim Form - No Particulars

[rgkrgk]

Well, youre gonna have to specifically tell them , that the info they have given you, doesnt break the bills down sufficiently to let you access what is owed.

 

...

 

Let them know that under CPR they may not rely on documents that they refuse you CPR31.21.

Also, CPR 31.23 States @' Proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against a person if he makes, or causes to be made, a false disclosure statement, without an honest belief in its truth.'

 

Not sure how much power that last bit gives you, but maybe a mention of it, will jerk a response

 

Thanks,

 

I've told them exactly what I want and I've sent them a demand under CPR 18 (as advices by andyorch earlier in the thread). It's just on past performance I wouldn't expect them to respond. At the tial they will say that all costs have been incurred and that a Chartered Accountant has certified the service charge statements. I imagine the judge will agree that this is proof enough.

[bazaar]

Thanks,

 

I've told them exactly what I want and I've sent them a demand under CPR 18 (as advices by andyorch earlier in the thread). It's just on past performance I wouldn't expect them to respond. At the tial they will say that all costs have been incurred and that a Chartered Accountant has certified the service charge statements. I imagine the judge will agree that this is proof enough.

 

Well, there you have it, what is the name of the chartered accountant? it may be possible to directly request this information from them now, because this is now a court case.

This is an extract from uk.gov

47.7 Meaning of disclosure In a civil litigation context disclosure is the process by which the parties:

 

1. 
   


1. inform each other of the existence of relevant material, and
   
2. arrange inspection of any relevant material held by the other, and by anyone else, or
   
3. claim some right or duty to withhold inspection.
   

 

The objective of disclosure is to place the parties on an equal footing, and treat them fairly, so far as is practicable.

The process was previously known as discovery.

The term ‘document ‘ in this context has the widest possible meaning and includes anything in which information of any description is recorded. The term ‘copy’, in relation to a document has a similarly wide meaning, and covers anything onto which information recorded on the document has been copied, by whatever means, whether directly or indirectly, and includes computer hard disks, floppy disks, audio tape, video tape and e-mails.

Notes: [Civil Procedure Rules 31.2, 31.3]

 

So you specifically ask for the documents that the Chartered Accountant has certified.

 

Although this is for insolvency, it is still referenced in CPR31

[bazaar]

Also, look at CPR 35.6. You can specifically ask this 'expert' what were the details on the evidence he had,

IE, What were the breakdown sums for each residence. so In effect, even though, they try to refuse this information, you ask the pertinent question to their Accountant.

Putting him / her firmly in the spotlight.

Get yourself a list of questions youd want to ask this person.

You can only ask them once, so you should word them very specifically.

[rgkrgk]

.

 

So you specifically ask for the documents that the Chartered Accountant has certified.

 

Although this is for insolvency, it is still referenced in CPR31

 

So when would I do this? What about the expense? Could I end up footing the bill for this?

 

Would I not first have to wait until the Claimant has failed (I said within 14 days in my letter sent yesterday) to supply the evidence asked for under CPR 18? I don't want to be considered unreasonable by the court by asking different people to provide the same evidence.

 

With the questions to an 'expert', wouldn't I first have to wait until they are declared as an expert?

 

This dispute is over approx. £1700 so likely to be assigned to the SCT.

 

The Claimant has not even supplied any particulars of claim yet. The date of service was 20/7 so they still have a bit of time. Do I not have to wait?

 

In regard to asking the claimant under the disclosure rules, can I ask for something I already have? If they don't supply it, does this mean they can't use it as evidence?

[rgkrgk]

I have received a letter from the Claimant and would ask anybody who has time to please help.

 

I have written 3 letters asking for invoices/receipts to backup their claim and proof that they have the right to sue in regard to their claim (received 19/7). The first of these was on 2/7 before their County Court Claim, the second was on 20/7 and mentioned that once I had received the particulars of the claim I would use CPR 31.4 (infering that they'd might as well send what I'd requested so that we could settle the matter). The third was on 26/7 and requested the documents under CPR18, this last one was sent special delivery and signed for on 27/7

 

The final request was slightly different in what it asked for and it would be this information that I need rather than what I requested in the first 2 letters.

 

Anyway, today I received a letter from the Claimant dated 26/7 and postmarked 27/7, saying that if I wanted the information requested in the letter of 2/7 I would have to pay them £85.

 

What should I do?

[AndyOrch]

You dont pay for a CPR request, is the above letter from the claimant or their Sols?

Write back to them (their Sols) and inform them that if they fail to respond their conduct will be reported to the Court handling the case.Also you will disclose their letter asking for said fee and raise the Pre Action p

Protocol p

Procedure in your AQ when costs come into question.

They are trying to be smart and pull the wool over you as a LiP.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[rgkrgk]

You dont pay for a CPR request, is the above letter from the claimant or their Sols?

Write back to them (their Sols) and inform them that if they fail to respond their conduct will be reported to the Court handling the case.Also you will disclose their letter asking for said fee and raise the Pre Action p

Protocol p

Procedure in your AQ when costs come into question.

They are trying to be smart and pull the wool over you as a LiP.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for commenting.

 

It's from the Claimant. No solicitors have been mentioned so far.

 

The letter they have chosen to reply to was sent before the issue date of the claim and didn't refer to any CPR's. Yes, they are trying to be smart.

[rgkrgk]

Just sent the letter saying I won't be paying the £85 asked for and reminded Claimant that they need to provide the info. otherwise I will inform the court they are trying to frustrate proceedings and deny me the opportunity to file a defence.

 

One other thing I said, which I'm now having doubts about, is that I have asked them to agree to a 28 day extension if they can't provide the information by 12th August. I have to file my defence by 17th August so things are very tight and I would like to spend some time with my son while he's off school. At the moment I'm constantly thinking of what I'm going to say in the defence and am not very good company. I have told the Claimant them to reply by 12th in regard to the request for an extension.

 

If I don't hear anything by 12th is there any way I can get the Court to grant an extension for filing the defence? My dealings with the court have been very worrying so far.

 

I sent a letter to them on 19th July, my ack. of service on 20th and another letter on 21st. I had to take a copy of my ack. of service over yesterday because they said they hadn't received it and they say they can't find the letters, but they may be in 'the pile waiting to be dealt with'. How on earth can you get a decision on an extension in time if this is how they operate?

[AndyOrch]

Just sent the letter saying I won't be paying the £85 asked for and reminded Claimant that they need to provide the info. otherwise I will inform the court they are trying to frustrate proceedings and deny me the opportunity to file a defence.

 

One other thing I said, which I'm now having doubts about, is that I have asked them to agree to a 28 day extension if they can't provide the information by 12th August. I have to file my defence by 17th August so things are very tight and I would like to spend some time with my son while he's off school. At the moment I'm constantly thinking of what I'm going to say in the defence and am not very good company. I have told the Claimant them to reply by 12th in regard to the request for an extension.That fine but but also check with the court re extension the Claimant may agree but not actuallt request same,therefore allowing you to submit your defence late.You can also request an extension yourself now that that you have informed the other party

 

If I don't hear anything by 12th is there any way I can get the Court to grant an extension for filing the defence? see above My dealings with the court have been very worrying so far.

 

I sent a letter to them on 19th July, my ack. of service on 20th and another letter on 21st. I had to take a copy of my ack. of service over yesterday because they said they hadn't received it and they say they can't find the letters, but they may be in 'the pile waiting to be dealt with'. How on earth can you get a decision on an extension in time if this is how they operate?

 

 

If extensions are refused then you must submit that defence on time irrespective of them having or not furnished said information.Try not to worry and let this consume you in the absence of information you will submit an embarrassed defence,thats all that is needed to halt the process of Judgment by default.Something they never expected you to do.

Now their work begins

 

Enjoy the time with your Son, thats priority, the above cretins will wait

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[rgkrgk]

Thanks once again Andy.

 

I've just tried to PM you about an idea I want to run by you regarding my defence, which I don't want to post here. If you're happy to look at it could you temporarily enable receipt of PM's or PM me with an email address.

[AndyOrch]

Unfortunately I am not privileged to have that facility as it was disabled by the site team for some unexplained reason

 

Regards

 

Andy

[rgkrgk]

Unfortunately I am not privileged to have that facility as it was disabled by the site team for some unexplained reason

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Might be worth contacting them, you have a very good reputation.

 

If you are willing to contact me then you should be able to email me. I have specified that my profile shows vcard info including my email address but haven't worked out where it gets shown yet. Perhaps it will be on this post.

 

Let me know if you're happy to do this.

[AndyOrch]

RGK just post your thoughts here in the open forum i will receive an email.You can then edit it instantly if you prefer it not to be on the open forum.

Any advise from me will be posted on the forum.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[rgkrgk]

I think the Claimant is getting cold feet over this claim.

 

Today I received a N24 ordering the Claimant to file their allocation questionnaire within 7 days or the case will be struck out.

 

If the case is struck out, what is the procedure for me to claim costs?

[AndyOrch]

RGK you would have to inquire with your Court, should the claim be struck out, whether they would be prepared to make a wasted costs order in your favor.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[rgkrgk]

Hi andy,

 

Thanks for that.

[rgkrgk]

RGK you would have to inquire with your Court, should the claim be struck out, whether they would be prepared to make a wasted costs order in your favor.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

This has now been struck out and I've spoken to the court twice and had conflicting advice. The first time I was told I would have to make a new claim the second I was told to send a N244 with a £75 fee and the Judge would make a decision.

 

I'm sure if I added all my time up I'd come to a figure representing over £200 at the £9.25 lip rate. I also bought 2 books on the small claim track.

 

Do you think this is worth the risk? There was no lba and the claim was made in response to me bringing a case against them at the Leasehold Valuation Tribunal in order to establish how much the debt is. It is clear that their demand is excessive (because it includes service charges going back further than 18 months) and as it stands they do not have the right to sue, although there is some talk of that being assigned to them. Part of the claim was also for service charges just recently demanded and still not due for payment at the time of the claim. I think they have acted unreasonably, it's just whether a Judge would agree.

 

If I decide to send in the n244, do I have to send an invoice to the claimant first? If so, how long should I give them to pay? Is there a time limit for sending in the n244?

[AndyOrch]

RGK if you have received the order is there any mention of costs.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[rgkrgk]

RGK if you have received the order is there any mention of costs.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi,

 

I have not received an order yet, I was told over the phone when I rang the court earlier today. I'm mainly worried about any time limits for applying at this point, that's why I didn't wait before bringing it up here. The court (Liverpool) are seriously behind with their case management and when I received a copy of the order giving the Claimant 7 days to fill in their AQ, it was dated 20/10/10, stamped by the post office on 25/10/10 and received on 27/10/10.

[AndyOrch]

Wait until you receive the Order that the claim as been SO.You have Upton 3 months after the judgment to consider your position and research and prepare.

Wasted costs orders are quite rare on Strike Outs but not impossible.

[rgkrgk]

Thanks I'll wait to see what arrives.

[rgkrgk]

Wait until you receive the Order that the claim as been SO.You have Upton 3 months after the judgment to consider your position and research and prepare.

Wasted costs orders are quite rare on Strike Outs but not impossible.

 

Hi,

 

I've not received anything from the court and have just phoned them and been told that they would be very surprised if I do receive anything.

 

I feel really annoyed about this. I spent pretty much the best part of the first 4 days after receiving the claim form researching what I should do about it and was very stressed by the time limits imposed. Since then I've spent even more time writing letters to the claimant and court and filing my defence. I feel as though I should be compensated. I am self employed and this has cost me.

 

What are my chances if I pay the £75 n244 fee?

 

John

[AndyOrch]

I've not received anything from the court and have just phoned them and been told that they would be very surprised if I do receive anything.

Utter nonsense RGK the court is at liberty to issue a Notice that the Claim as been struck out.

 

Regards

Andy

[AndyOrch]

In English litigation, courts have the power to remove the whole or part of a statement of case (traditionally referred to as a pleading). The power to do so may be exercised on the application of an opposing party in the litigation where (a) the statement of case (usually particulars of claim or a defence) does not disclose a cause of action, such that there is no reasonable ground for bringing or defending the claim, (b) the pleading does not contain a sufficient precise statement of the facts upon which the claimant relies, © inadequate reasons are given for a denial in a defence, or (d) the proceedings are an abuse of the process of the court.

The power to strike out may also be exercised of its own motion, without notice to the parties. Striking out particulars of claim and defences may also be ordered by courts as a measure to address repeated failures by a party to comply with case management directions, practice directions or other orders of the court.

Applications to strike out should be supported by evidence, unless the application is based solely on a point of law. The court is at liberty to treat a strike out application as one for summary judgment in order to finally dispose of issues that are unworthy of pre-trial processes and investigation. Such applications are properly brought prior to the filing of allocation questionnaires, and a defendant who files a defence on the merits in response to defective particulars of claim is at risk of being denied its application, as the application is inconsistent with defending the proceedings.

A court may be inclined to exercise its power to strike out the whole or part of a statement of case is where that statement of case discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing or defending a claim. Such cases include particulars of claim or a defence which:

1. do not set out facts indicating what the claim is about,
   
2. those which are incoherent and make no sense,
   
3. those which contain a coherent set of facts but those facts, even if true, do not disclose any legally recognisable claim against the other party or do not amount in law to a defence to the claim, and
   
4. are vexatious, scurrilous or obviously ill-founded. In making the assessment, the court will assume that each of the allegations pleaded are true.
   

When a strike out application is successful, either the proceedings are struck out in their entirety or some part of the pleading is struck out. A successful strikeout application may lead the court to enter judgment in favour of the other party, bringing an end to the issues and disputes before the court.

Strike out applications serve a similar purpose to summary judgment applications. Both types of applications are properly available in litigation which does not require full investigation and a trial. In respect to costs, the usual rule is the party whose statement of case has been struck out will be liable to pay the costs of the other parties involved in the litigation.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[rgkrgk]

OK, what can I do about it?

 

Incidentally, the order requiring the Claimant to send in a completed AQ stated "If you do not comply with this notice, your claim will automatically be struck out without further order of the court." Does that make any difference?