dwp forcing me into a job

[wishface]

Crisis loans can be paid when a person is not receiving benefit, but they are not paid when there is a sanction in place, as it defeats the purpose of the sanction.

 

However there is no absolute right to a crisis loan nor to hardship payments - both are discretionary, but have specific guidelines for consideration.

 

The CAB are incorrect in that the DWP cannot leave a person without any means. If this were the case, very few people would do anything that is a condition of receiving their benefit as they would be guaranteed another way of receiving money.

A society that is content to let people starve is a society that has failed.

[Guest jsa12]

many will agree,just head straight down the doctor's with the stress and anxiety of it all,unfortunately this country is taking examples from the usa and is getting worse and worse.

 

 

I suggest you read this thread and see just what they can leave you without

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/263195-benefits-stopped-because-i.html

 

 

that ones been going for some time this is always important to apply and keep a record as such,once the "a doubt has arisen" letter arrives you are full able to counterclaim,i have had many of these in the past and have real doubts to some authenticity,a period occurred where these were turning up on every application made at the job centre some weeks later,at one stage i complained to the company was invited for an interview and the paperwork i sent was there,something was badly wrong.

 

they do try and catch people out,and equally they don't like people that "kick up a stink",keep a record of everything.

Edited July 19, 2010 by jsa12
update

[bigsteve0000]

trouble is everyting that you do with DWP involves your NI number. you cant talk to any one on the phone without they ask it, when you sign on they put the NI num in the computer not your name. when you reduce people to numbers its easy to forget that your dealing with people and when you tell people their screwed by letter you dont see the dispur you cause.

Edited July 20, 2010 by 42man

[wishface]

Introduce the citizens wage and we can do away with the tin pot hitlers at the jobcentre forevermore. Sadly the political will isn't there because unemployment is big business and most of the support agencies (sadly, CAB included) are toothless tigers. What's needed is a nationwide network to support the unemployed especially in times of hardship and to stand up against this awful government. This coalition that no one voted for will continue to use the fake deficit as an excuse to trample over the poor.

[wishface]

many will agree,just head straight down the doctor's with the stress and anxiety of it all,unfortunately this country is taking examples from the usa and is getting worse and worse.

 

 

 

 

 

that ones been going for some time this is always important to apply and keep a record as such,once the "a doubt has arisen" letter arrives you are full able to counterclaim,i have had many of these in the past and have real doubts to some authenticity,a period occurred where these were turning up on every application made at the job centre some weeks later,at one stage i complained to the company was invited for an interview and the paperwork i sent was there,something was badly wrong.

 

they do try and catch people out,and equally they don't like people that "kick up a stink",keep a record of everything.

Absolutely agree. The 'doubt' is a joke. Problem is you put yourself into that position everytime you take a job to the JC; it gets put on the system. Therefore regardless of whether you've met your JSA requirements, in their eyes you've entered a new contract and so you have to follow through (which means the employer has to keep a record of your employment application). Never say you are going to do more than you can cover and prove 110%.

 

And i agree, go to the GP when your money is stopped. Tell them you are going to suffer malnutrition and get signed off and don't leave until they help. That's what i'd do. I hate to criticise the CAB i really do, but they just don't have the teeth.

[wishface]

trouble is everyting that you do with DWP involves your NI number. you cant talk to any one on the phone without they ask it, when you sign on they put the NI num in the computer not your name. when you reduce people to numbers its easy to forget that your dealing with people and when you tell people their screwed by letter you dont see the dispur you cause. the nazis did this with the jew, poles and disabled they gassed no names just numbers. not people just numbers, dehumanisation.

I'd have more sympathy for their call centre staff/frontline staff if they behaved with more compassion. I applied for ESA and rang up to check on my claim only to be told id get a callback in 24 hours. That never happened and when i rang back i found out they were on strike that day. Not much to ask to have told me that surely? Then the fun began when i did get through as the stupid woman running the call centre didn't know her arse from her elbow - and still doesn't to this day. Sorry no sympathy for people like that when it's just basic ignorance and incompetence.

[Guest jsa12]

Absolutely agree. The 'doubt' is a joke. Problem is you put yourself into that position everytime you take a job to the JC; it gets put on the system. Therefore regardless of whether you've met your JSA requirements, in their eyes you've entered a new contract and so you have to follow through (which means the employer has to keep a record of your employment application). Never say you are going to do more than you can cover and prove 110%.

 

And i agree, go to the GP when your money is stopped. Tell them you are going to suffer malnutrition and get signed off and don't leave until they help. That's what i'd do. I hate to criticise the CAB i really do, but they just don't have the teeth.

 

that can be the case of applying through them can be more trouble then its worth,and be left thinking why did i bother.there should not be sanctions if you keep a log,arrive on time and apply for what they have sent you for and keep proof.however nothings enough to prevent the attitude as you say its best involve the gp and make clear where the problem lye's if there are nagging problems with them.

[privatehudson]

So its "prejudice" to call some claimants dead head scroungers but perfectly reasonable to write off DWP/JCP staff as "tin pot Hitlers" with no compassion?

 

I'm not sure which is worse, that or the comparison between asking people for their NINO and the Third Reich. I use a NINO on my system because its faster, not because we don't care to learn/remember a customer's name. I could put in a surname and DOB but then that often brings up multiple results.

 

Still its good to know that if I am made unemployed when the coalition gets started on the cutbacks I can look forward to being told I deserved it.

[bigsteve0000]

when your sat on the other side of the desk youll find out. youll be suprised out how many of your colleagues look at their computer screens, the paper work in front of them, their key boards and even their desk but never in your face. when you deal with people you look them in the face and make eye contact. when you reduce people to a number you stop thinkin of them as people, you stop talking to the person and just go through the motions. I found that no matter how many times I tell the current prick that signs me on he always forgets how to pronounce my name he never makes eye contact and I know what hes gonna say before he says it. strangly those that do make eye contact never get my name wrong.

[bigsteve0000]

and some claimants are dead head scroungers, whats wrong is to tar us all with the same brush. I dont think all JC staff are pricks some of them are very nice helpful people who treat me like a person, they should all be like that.

[privatehudson]

Interesting, you seem to presume that because I'm a civil servant I have no experience of claiming benefits. In reality I have done so twice in my life, the second time recently enough to have gone through the modern processes such as the telephone based application. I don't recall any experience like that from either time.

 

Which isn't to say that it doesn't happen but there could be other reasons than that person treating you as a number rather than as a person. I still don't see why that warrants the comparison to the Third Reich, but that's just me, I tend not to want to fall foul of Godwins law just to make a point.

[privatehudson]

All that and more is true about Hitler, but the Nazi/Third Reich comparison is overdone far too often. If you overdo the comparisons to the point where the connection is too tenuous then you risk seeming like you're just mentioning the the comparison for dramatic effect.

 

The Nazis did give people numbers as part of removing their identity, but its a fallacy to then suggest that another government who gives people numbers and uses that number is likely to fall into the same trap.

 

I also think that most people behind the desks and on the phone can and do "see the person" and try to get some understanding of the situation and how they can help within the confines of their job role. I don't think that has to be restricted to seeing someone in person, although that is easier, but that's not always practical however.

[RaeUK]

I'm sorry to be a bit of a party-pooper but I do think the notion of 'we are being dehumanised, we are now just a number' to be, well, tosh. The National Insurance Number system has been around for at least sixty plus years in its present popularity and was first brought into being in 1911.

As far as I'm aware it is used by the DWP and others as the primary key for record location and I have no problem with that. Never have I contacted any agency who uses my NINO and been addressed purely in alpha-numeric terms! They use my name. Honestly...

Best wishes

WM983589XX

[Greer8472]

Sorry I have to mention this;

 

Why is this sounding like that TV show "The Prisoner" and that famous quote.

[wishface]

So its "prejudice" to call some claimants dead head scroungers but perfectly reasonable to write off DWP/JCP staff as "tin pot Hitlers" with no compassion?

 

I'm not sure which is worse, that or the comparison between asking people for their NINO and the Third Reich. I use a NINO on my system because its faster, not because we don't care to learn/remember a customer's name. I could put in a surname and DOB but then that often brings up multiple results.

 

Still its good to know that if I am made unemployed when the coalition gets started on the cutbacks I can look forward to being told I deserved it.

I speak only from my own experience, as I made perfectly clear before. And my experience is that these people are just that. The JC+ is far from helpful; it's little more than a bureacracy and a board for whichever rubbish local employers (mainly recruitment agencies in reality) want to palm off as jobs - most of which I stronly suspect aren't long term positions or careers (especially when you see them deadeyed crap posted repeatedly).

[wishface]

I'm sorry to be a bit of a party-pooper but I do think the notion of 'we are being dehumanised, we are now just a number' to be, well, tosh. The National Insurance Number system has been around for at least sixty plus years in its present popularity and was first brought into being in 1911.

As far as I'm aware it is used by the DWP and others as the primary key for record location and I have no problem with that. Never have I contacted any agency who uses my NINO and been addressed purely in alpha-numeric terms! They use my name. Honestly...

Best wishes

WM983589XX

People are dehumanised by the system, not solely because they have a NINO. People are treated as statistics - the whole exercise with ATOS is motivated to kick people off the sick because the stats are too high.

[bigsteve0000]

All that and more is true about Hitler, but the Nazi/Third Reich comparison is overdone far too often. If you overdo the comparisons to the point where the connection is too tenuous then you risk seeming like you're just mentioning the the comparison for dramatic effect.

 

The Nazis did give people numbers as part of removing their identity, but its a fallacy to then suggest that another government who gives people numbers and uses that number is likely to fall into the same trap.

 

I also think that most people behind the desks and on the phone can and do "see the person" and try to get some understanding of the situation and how they can help within the confines of their job role. I don't think that has to be restricted to seeing someone in person, although that is easier, but that's not always practical however.

 

as Ive said in other threads DWP staff are human and as such falable. the ref to the nazis is a valid ref and used a lot because of this. it is history and any people that dont learn from history are doomed to make the same mistakes. when you give people numbers then you run the risk of losing sight of the person. adolf and his mates gave people numbers to deliberately dehumanise them. we use NI num for administration reasons and run the risk of accidently dehumanising people.

 

 

I'm sorry to be a bit of a party-pooper but I do think the notion of 'we are being dehumanised, we are now just a number' to be, well, tosh. The National Insurance Number system has been around for at least sixty plus years in its present popularity and was first brought into being in 1911.

As far as I'm aware it is used by the DWP and others as the primary key for record location and I have no problem with that. Never have I contacted any agency who uses my NINO and been addressed purely in alpha-numeric terms! They use my name. Honestly...

Best wishes

WM983589XX

 

The NI num is a good and useful tool but unfortunately like all tools it can be misused and abused. DWP staff are human and as such come in all shapes, sizes and personalities. Ive had advisors who have been fantastic and bent over backward to help me, they get as frustrated as I do with the limitation of the DWP, others cant even make eye contact and cant even prononce your name right. I did get one to make eye contact with me after a couple of months when at the top of my voice (very very loud) I told him how to pronounce my name and explained that it is an old name English name dating back to the fifth or sixth century, and is derived from the old english/anglo saxon word for oak. im not an arab so theirs no need for all the flem when pronouncing it. he didnt get it wrong again. after that he always talked to me not his pc screen, some times you have to make them see you. the trouble is some people dont see the person.

 

I speak only from my own experience, as I made perfectly clear before. And my experience is that these people are just that. The JC+ is far from helpful; it's little more than a bureacracy and a board for whichever rubbish local employers (mainly recruitment agencies in reality) want to palm off as jobs - most of which I stronly suspect aren't long term positions or careers (especially when you see them deadeyed crap posted repeatedly).

 

They can find a plenty of reasons not to help but very few reasons to help.

[wishface]

So very true. If i have to go on the dole again, in the case of a failed medical, i shall be very very miserable.

 

Actually what does bother me is, because i live a bus journey away from the JC, i have to fork out to get there. Now that I can live with, but it means i actually get less than the government says is the minimum i need to live on because i have to make that expenditure. Whereas someone who lives in walking distance obviously doesn't. Totally arbitrary.

 

On top of that, and whats worse, is their total lack of flexibility with things like signing times (which, the longer you sign, the more they just randomly change). They just do NOT take any consideration of travel into the equation.

[bigsteve0000]

I was 9.15 am in hull city centre for a while, I explained it cost me 3 times as much in petrol in rush hour trafic and it took 50 mins as aposed to 15 - 20 min later in the day. her answer: take the bus. I pointed out that bus stop 15 min walk from our house and not capeable of the walk when back and hip playing up and busses jar the hell ut of my back on the potholes that pass for roads round here. her answer: are you registered disabled - no. her answer sign on sick (they signed me of fit for non pysical work) or be on time. if your late twice in a row we'll stop your money. then a few months latter a was moved to rob (yes this one had a name) first signing with him I asked if I could change signing times and explained why, next signing 11.15am no fuss.

[wishface]

Similar story: I had to sign on at 9.25 am which meant waiting around town for 40 mins prior with nothing to do in the rain. Can't they swap my time for someone local who walks? Course not. Then they changed it to 11.20am without telling me just as I signed off. No buss for two hours either way at that time. Their attitude: if you had a job you'd have a travel and thus it's the same thing.

 

Jobsworths.

[bigsteve0000]

practicallity and comon sence seem to be lacking in these people. the young ones and those that started from school and have been their 20 yrs seem to lack the experience in the real world, these are the ones that lack the people skills. those that came to the job latter in life seem to have more about them and know how to deal with people. best advisor I had had been a bus driver until his diabeties progrest to the point were he needed insulin. couldnt fault the man we always let on if we see each other in the JC, god I wish they were all like that.

[wishface]

Could we not just waive claimants who are doing voluntary work?

[antone]

Could we not just waive claimants who are doing voluntary work?

 

You mean as in exempt them from signing? Probably not, but I could see a case for allowing such people to sign postally. Indeed, that's what used to happen when a person lived more than a certain distance away from the nearest Jobcentre.

 

I imagine the system was changed due to Daily Mailism, but I'm not sure.