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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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1st Credit Help please


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Hi,

I have been lurking on the forums for a while and have used some useful information, but I now realise that I can't do it on my own so have registered for help if possible.

 

I had a marbles credit card taken out in 2003 which has been past on to 1st Credit due to the usual difficulties, job, family problems ect.

 

I sent a cca request to them last year and finally got a reply about three months ago with what I think is an unacceptable credit application. (No t&cs) They then followed up with letters about CCJs and charging orders. Last month they sent a letter about getting a statutory demand order.

 

I sent a letter of dispute from the templates library last week and on Monday they sent a letter saying they have compiled with the request and that it was not in dispute and I have 14 days to pay.

They also sent the credit application, but this time with terms and conditions page which I have been asking for since January 2009.

 

Please could someone take a look and tell me if I can hold them off any longer, because I cant afford to pay at present and need to keep a roof over the families head (not their fault)

Thanks.

 

 

Marbles1.pdf

 

Marbles2.pdf

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Guest Cartaphilus

Greetings. Okay, that'll teach me to read your thread title! Sorry for that. (I asked which DCA originally).

 

Though I've just been looking over the first page and it looks very illegible in some places? Is that how it was sent or just the product of scanning? That's the first thing I noticed. From what I've read here if it IS inelligble, then it's in default until they provide you with a copy you can read.

 

This explains what I mean a lot better:

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)

Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed

agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety

under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signaturelink3.gif, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

Edited by Cartaphilus
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Did you fill in this application form on their premises (Bank?) or did you send it to them?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Can't see any right to cancel, apart from that it's a very very bad copy, dispute it on that?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Guest Cartaphilus

Yes, I missed all the other replies whilst busy messing about trying to search something but if you can't read it, then as per my post above and the regulations, as the others have mentioned since.

 

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Yes, I missed all the other replies whilst busy messing about trying to search something but if you can't read it, then as per my post above and the regulations, as the others have mentioned since.

 

 

The pdf is what is exactly what it looks like.

 

Ok don`t really know what to do now, should I send them anything. I put the account into dispute on the basis that the application was illegible, and their was no terms and conditions. Now they have sent the terms and conditions.

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Guest Cartaphilus

Then it's illegible. Therefore, as PG already mentioned, this now applies to the situation:

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)

Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed

agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety

under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signaturelink3.giflink3.gif, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

__________________

 

As PG said. You can't read it, how can you tell what you agreed to?

Ok don`t really know what to do now, should I send them anything. I put the account into dispute on the basis that the application was illegible, and their was no terms and conditionslink3.gif. Now they have sent the terms and conditionslink3.gif.

 

Right, well I didn't see that in your first post, you've just added it. Far as I know the account is still in dispute because you've received an unreadable agreement. I am sure the others will be more helpful. Good luck.

Edited by Cartaphilus
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Then it's illegible. Therefore, as PG already mentioned, this now applies to the situation:

 

 

As PG said. You can't read it, how can you tell what you agreed to?

 

 

Right, well I didn't see that in your first post, you've just added it. Far as I know the account is still in dispute because you've received an unreadable agreement. I am sure the others will be more helpful. Good luck.

 

Yeah sorry I added that, I`ll guess I`ll just wait to see what they send in 14 days.

 

Thanks PG and Bazooka

Edited by Joe of the Jungle
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Guest Cartaphilus

Did you send them anything that looks like this?

 

I found this on an older thread, with the same situation:

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending an illegible copy of the application form. I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the Act.

 

To clarify, The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 SI No. 1557 states:

 

Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

2.-(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the colour of the paper.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable. I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues.

 

Yours faithfully

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Guest Cartaphilus
but now they say I have no grounds for dispute.

 

Well, far as I can see and what those regulations says ... it's still in default. As to these:

 

They then followed up with letters about CCJs and charging orders. Last month they sent a letter about getting a statutory demand order.

 

I don't know about 1st credit not having had any personal dealings with them but if they are anything like the other DCAs, would these be the usual threatoratic - empty threat - letters? Full of 'if's mays?' Nothing direct eg 'we will take this action?'

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Guest Cartaphilus

Well, you've sent them the intial letter and they should already be aware about those regulations. Thus, they already know you have disputed it on those grounds; whether they can read it, you can't and I couldn't, I have 20/20 version when reading so ... it's whether or not you can read it not them. Are they just playing silly beggars? I was thinking whilst making coffee, either they are just trying to scare you, which plenty of DCAs do if they ignore letters from people like the one you've sent them, or are they just exploiting knowledge of those regulations in order to claim they have obligated your request. And you've got the proof of what you sent them in your letter. I am a learner BTW (and very often I am just not that confident to post things), and I don't know a lot of things but seems to me they are ignoring your concerns come what may.

 

Did they say at all or just left it as 'is' in the letter about what would happen in 14 days if no payment was made?

 

What I was trying to say above, is they know damn well what their responsibiities are now they've received your dispute letter. Whether they agree or not.

Edited by Cartaphilus
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The letter they sent me says that they have supplied the copy agreement/application and my request under s78 has been fulfilled.

 

They also say that the request is not valid (don`t know if thats the cca or the dispute letter.

 

14 days to disscus a proposal is what they put on the letter.

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From what I can see, or not, it does not contain the 'right to cancel' so does not contain all of the prescribed T&C's required under the CC act.

Apart from it being illegible, you can place the account in dispute, and any reference they make to the contrary, can be suitably ignored, up and until, they get of their backside and issue you with a legally enforceable CCA or take you to court where you can submit an 'embarassed' defence.

 

If you have placed this account in dispute previously then you need do nothing further, if you haven't, then send them the 'failed' letter, do not tell them why, and withhold all payments to them for this unenforceable debt.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Hi Bazooka,

 

I have sent a dispute letter to them, but they are not accepting that the application/agrrement is illegible?

 

There are only small snippets that I can read on the first application and on the second "terms & conditions" it is kind of guess the words, it also does not seem to be part of the same document.

 

Would they have to produce the origional or clearer copy in court if it got that far? I cant see the credit limit, apr, ect

 

edit: looking at the agreement closely, I think the cancelation part is there. So I guess I can only rely on the illegibility part and prehaps the authenticy of what they sent.

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It is illegible, you have the document to prove to the DJ, if it got that far, that this is what they sent you, it matters not that they don't believe the account to be in dispute, they always say that.

 

Account in dispute, document illegible, you have the evidence, withhold all payments to them, and only respond to them 'IF' they issue you with court papers, in which case you will be able to request the documents they will be using to enforce this in court.

 

P.S. Have you claimed back the charges?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Hi Joe

 

Ive had the misfortune of dealing with Ist Crudit!

 

they are very insistant and try to wear you down.

 

You just have to be stubborn and dont let them bully you. As the others say without an enforceable agreement they cant do sqat to you.

 

Monx

Advice given is my opinion only, I am not a legal or financial expert (far from it).

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