bris girlie V Natwest

[brisgirlie]

i have recieved another letter today from S higley, stating my complaint about charges and how we have failed to reach an agreement. he is aware that i have submitted a claim via claims court and will be submitting my details to banks litigation department for action.

They have acknowledge claim and i believe i am to wait 28 days from the date served.

anyone else at the same stage, i know it's a waiting game at moment however getting a little nervous.

[brisgirlie]

HI ALL,

jUST WANTED TO ASK A QUICK QUESTION!

* HAVE ISSUSED MY CLAIM THROUGH MCOL IT WAS DEEMED SERVED ON 19TH SEPTEMBER, NATWEST STATED THEY INTEND TO DEFEND WHICH THEN GAVE THEM 28 DAYS, BY MY CALCULATION THEY HAVE ONLY 7 DAYS LEFT, I WAS JUST WOUNDERING SHOULD I HAVE RECIEVED ANY DETAILS FROM COBBETTS i.e AQ QUESTIONAIRE AS I HAVE NOT RECIEVED ANYTHING.

PLSE ADVISE ON THIS MATTER GETTING A LIITLE CONCERNED AS EVERYONE ELSE SEEMS TO BE COMPLETING THESE AQ.

THANKS

[brisgirlie]

Hi All

Well Haven't Heard A Thing From Natwest, Issused My Mcol Online On 14/9/06 It Was Deemed Severed On 19.09.06, So As You Can Guess My 28 Days Are Up.

Do I Give Them Another Couple Of Days Or Do I Go To Mcol And Continue With Next Steps.

Plse Advise

Thanks

[brisgirlie]

Help

Have Issused Mcol, Have Waited For The 28 Days Still Not A Word From Natwest Can I Issue A Judgement Via Mcol. Ifso Is It The First Or Sencond One I Opt For

Plse Help

Thanks

[Shelty]

Hi, your 2 days ahead of me, as my 28 days are up on Thursday. I've read that other people have tried to go back through MCOL after the 28 days to get judgement by default, might be worth a try? If no luck it might be worth contacting the court to see if NW have filed a defence? As yet I've only had one offer, which I rejected, and since then nothing so I'm doing the wiating part to. Good luck !

[brisgirlie]

Hi Shelty

Have Now Contacted Mcol, They Say I Can Issue Judgement Anytime After 12.00am Tonight.

Have Not Heard A Thing From Natwest Since They Made Me An Offer Around The 12th Sept(1st And Only Offer).

Lets Hope It's Now Coming To End And Hopefully Will Get My Money Soon.

Good Luck With You Claim Let Me Know How You Get On

Thanks

[brisgirlie]

Natwest Have Issused A Defence, They Are Now Requesting Cpr18 And Also Further Details On Charges.

[brisgirlie]

have recieved an AQ Questionaire from court today will be completing and posting back.

cant be much longer now to go can it?

[brisgirlie]

PLSE PLSE HELP!

 

I have recieved details of defence from cobbetts yesterday have replied acknowledging defence, also stating i am no oblidged to submitt info regarding CPR part18 however and again enclosed schedule and cost of charges.

 

Have now recieved today a AQ questionaire N149, have read through threads and section on AQ, however struggling to complete form.

Having trouble with section G other information, what excatly should i put here

PLSE HELP AS WANT TO SEND BACK asap

THANKS

[brisgirlie]

help!!

[brisgirlie]

plse see copy of cobbetts defence filed am struggling to complete AQ.

plse look through and advise what i need to do next in relation to defence and also any help with section G of AQ N149 form would be very heplful.

COBBETTS DEFENCE

• Defence is filed and served without prejudice to the defendant’s case that the particulars of claim do not disclose reasonable ground s for bringing a claim against the claimant to recover bank charges (and interest thereon) referred to in the particulars of claim or any other sum. In the event that the claimant does not properly particularise her claim then the defendant will apply to strike out the claim and /or for summary judgement in respect of the same.
  
• no admissions are made as to what charges have been debited to the claimants bank account.
  
• the claimant is put to strict proof of each and every charge the subject of the claim and must identify in respect of each charge(a) the date the same was debited (b) the amount of the same © the description applied to the charge.
  
• in relation to the allegation that the bank charges amount to an unenforceable penalty the defendant pleads as follows

4.1 In order for the claimant to sustain a claim that the charges debited by the defendant are in the nature of a penalty he will need to plead and prove (a) the clauses pursuant to which the charges were applied, (b) that the charges were applied due to a breach of contract by the claimant, and © identifying in each case the particular breach of contract (by reference to appropriate terms) of the contract that the charges related to. As presently pleaded the claim does not plead these matters and therefore does not disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim that all or any of the charges refereed to in the particulars of claim have been applied pursuant to an unenforceable penalty clause.

4.2 Until such time as the claimant pleads the matters referred to in paragraph 4.1 above the defendant is unable to plead to the claim brought against it and therefore (pending the provision of full and proper particulars of the claim) at this stage denies that any charges have been applied to claimants bank account pursuant to unenforceable penalty clauses.

• In relation to the allegation that the contractual provisions pursuant to which the charges have been applied are invalid pursuant to the unfair contract terms act 1977 (UTCA 1977) and / or the unfair contract terms in consumer regulations 1999 (the Regulations) and / or section 15 supply of goods and services act 1982 (SGSA).

5.1 The claimant is required to identify the contractual provisions that she alleges are invalid by reference to UTCA 1977 and/or the regulations. Until such time as these provisions are identified the defendant cannot (save as appears below) plead to the allegations referred to in paragraph 5 above. The defendant therefore reserves its right to plead further to the allegation once (and if) the claimant identifies the relevant contractual provisions.

5.2 In relations to the case of the claimant that the contractual provisions are invalid pursuant to section 4 UTCA 1977 then it is the case of the defendant that the section is not applicable as any contractual provisions relating to charges do not relate to the defendants liability for negligence of breach of contract.

5.3 In relation to the case of the claimant that the contractual provisions are invalid pursuant to the regulations the defendant pleads as follows:

5.3.1 Schedule 2 to the regulations is an Indicative and non-exhaustive lust of terms which may be regarded as unfair (emphasis supplied)

5.3.2 If claimant is to rely upon paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 to the Regulations then she is required to plead and prove in relation to each bank charge that she seeks to recover the matters referred to in paragraph 5.1 above and all facts and matter relied upon in alleging that the sums paid are disproportionately high.

5.3.3 In the circumstances no grounds are disclosed for a claim that the contractual provisions (whatever they are alleged to be –see paragraph 5.1 above) falls foul of the regulations and in particular paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2.

5.3.4 The defendant is therefore unable (save as appears below) to plead to this allegation beyond denying that any bank charges have been applied pursuant to terms which contravene the regulations. The defendant reserves its right to plead further to this allegation once (and if) the particulars referred to in paragraph 5.3.2 above are provided.

5.3.5 With out prejudice to paragraph 5.3.4 it is the case of the claimant that the regulation have no application because the charges amount to payment for services provided by the defendant and the adequacy (or otherwise) of consideration paid under a contract for services is not an issue to be judged by reference to principles of fairness under regulations.

5.4 In relation to the case of the claimant that the charges are unreasonable within the meaning of SGSA section15 the defendant pleads as follows:

5.4.1 The claimant is required to plead and prove the necessary factors(referred to in section 15 SGSA) concerning the contract between the claimant and the defendant which mean that pursuant to SGSA section 15 there is an implied term that the claimant pay a reasonable charge for the services under the contract.

5.4.2 Further, the claimant is required to plead and prove (a) that the bank charges which have been debited are unreasonable (b) all facts and matters relied upon by the claimant in support of this case and c) what charges would have been reasonable.

5.4.3 In the circumstances no grounds are disclosed for a claim that the defendant has acted in breach of SGSA section15

5.4.4 In the circumstances (save as appears below) the defendant is unable to plead to this allegation beyond denying that it has acted in breach of SGSA section 15 as alleged or at all. The defendant reserves its right to plead further to this allegation once (and if) the defects in the pleaded case referred to in paragraph 5.41 – 5.43 above are addressed.

5.4.5 It is the case of the defendant that the contract between the claim ant and the defendant does not fall within SGSA section 15 because (a) the consideration for the service would be determined by the contract between the claimant and the defendant and (b) was not left to be determined in a manner agreed by the contract or determined by the course of dealing s between the claimant and the defendant.

• To assist the claimant with the proper particularisation of her claim the defendant serves with this defence a request made pursuant to CPR part 18. If the claimant fails to provide the particulars requested in the time stipulated and or the defects with the claim (referred to in paragraph1 above) remain then the defendant will apply to the court for (among other things) an order striking out the claim.
  
• Pending the proper particulars 9of the claim, the defendant is unable to plead to the claimant as alleged in the claim o at all. The defendant reserves its right to amend this defence to plead further to the claimant claim once or if the claimant properly particularises the same.

[brisgirlie]

bump

[Wheresmewallet]

First thing abut AQ I'm sure you have looked here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

Section G.

I did not put nothing in here. I'm sure some folk on here will have some ideas on what to put in this section

Have you sent the reply to the CPR Part 18?

If not. Use something like this

Dear Sir or Madam:

Claim No: ********

I Acknowledge the receipt of the defence posted on behalf of National Westminster Bank plc.

I am not prepared at this stage to answer the CPR Part 18 Request.

I anticipate that the claim will be allocated to the small claims track and would not then expect to have to deal with a Part 18 request since these are specifically excluded under Part 27 unless the court specifically orders me to do so of its own initiative

Furthermore I consider that the CPR part 18 request is intimidatory and I intend to bring the intimidation to the notice of the court. However, for clarity, I confirm the charges I am claiming were applied to the following account:

Please also find enclosed a breakdown of all charges I am claiming.

Yours faithfully,

 

[Michael Browne]

You could ask for standard disclosure:

 

I am respectfully requesting that my claim be allocated to the small claims track. This issue is not a complicated one; it is an issue of fact and not of law. The issue is only whether the money levied by the Defendant in respect of its customer’s contractual breaches exceed their actual costs incurred. I am happy to pay their actual costs and I am surprised the Defendant did not counterclaim for these, because I would have paid them without argument.

 

However, the continuing problem is, (in common with the 100s of other cases currently being brought by other bank customers), that the banks refuse to reveal the details of their penalty-charging regime. As the banks have a fiduciary duty towards their customers, they have a duty to deal straightforwardly and in utmost good faith.

 

Accordingly, I would respectfully ask that the court in this case, not withstanding allocation to the small claims track, order standard disclosure. I understand that it is in the courts discretion to do so. This would bring a rapid end, not only to this litigation, but would also likely bring an end to much of the litigation in progress against other high-street banks.

[brisgirlie]

THANKS VERY MUCH,

YES I DID LOOK AT THE AQ DETAILS BUT JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I DIDN'T MISS ANYTHING AS I WANT THIS CLAIM TO GO THROUGH WITH OUT AN HASSEL.

WITH REGARDS TO CPR PART 18, YES I DID RESPOND WITH EXCATLY THE SAME AS YOU HAVE WRITTEN ABOVE, HOWEVER I HAVE NOW RECIEVED ANOTHER LETTER FROM COBBETTS, LETTER STATES:

 

WE REFER TO YOU LETTER DATED 18/10/06 REGARDING REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFO. IT IS OUR CLIENTS CONTENTION THAT YO PARTICULARS DID NOT PROPERLY PARTICULARISE YOUR CLAIM, WE ARE UNABLE TO DEFEND CLAIM WHERE YOU HAVE NOT GIVEN DETAILS OF EACH CHARGE WHICH IS DISPROPORIONATE AND UNREADONABLE.

THE COURT IS BOUND BY AN OVERIDING OBJECTIVE TO DEAL WITH CASES JUSTLY AND ENSURE THAT ALL PARTIES ARE ON EQUALL FOOTING, OUR CLIENT OBJECTS TO ALLEGATIN OF INTIMIDATION.

(AND SO ON)

 

 

SHOULD I SEND THIS LETTER NOW (I COPIED THIS FROM MOUSTACHEMAN AS HE RECIEVED SAME LETTER)

Dear Sir,

 

I refer to your letter dated XXX

 

I note your comments on my allegation that your CPR Part 18 request is intimidating. It is my contention that my Particulars of Claim did properly particularise my claim. For example, a schedule of charges, which fully details each charge I claim is disproportionate and unreasonable, has been sent to your client, the court and yourselves at every stage.

 

I agree that the court is bound with an overriding objective to deal with cases justly and ensure that parties are on an equal footing. It was clearly the case that your client could respond to my claim since I have provided sufficient particulars. I object therefore to your allegation that your client was not on an equal footing.

 

Yours faithfully.

 

WOULD YOU AGREE!!!

[Michael Browne]

WOULD YOU AGREE!!!

 

Difficult not to, since I posted the letter originally!!! LOL

[brisgirlie]

Thank you vey much will get on to this now and post first thing tomorrow.

thanks again michael.

[Shelty]

This is going to be a close run race....who'll get their cheque first ? You're 2 days ahead of me I reckon as I'm responding to my CPR request today....Good luck !

[brisgirlie]

im keeping my fingers cross my cheque will come soon. We can only hope. I hope all goes well for you and your claim lets see what happens next for the both of us.

goodluck

[brisgirlie]

Just keeping you up to date have now recieved a just about 50% offer from cobbetts for claim.

i am i right in saying i should write back accepting this as part payment and will continue with claim or as the letter stated this is in full settlement should i decline letter states it is a goodwill gesture and acceptance by myself of payment to settle claim in full on basis i agree to not disclose to any third party the fact and details relating to this payment .

and

i write to court to withdrawl claim, as this letter is written without prejudice save as to cost in event i decline offer it will be brought to attention of court.

 

any one no what i should respond to any help and advice much needed

thanks

[Michael Browne]

Dear [named sender or Sirs]

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/xx

 

I respectfully decline your offer of settlement and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account, interest and court fees totalling £xxxx

 

I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder.

 

I will be willing to withdraw my claim upon receipt of unconditional full settlement of my claim.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

Yours faithfully

[brisgirlie]

jus to keep thrad updated, AQ sent back to courts, have spoken to courts who have informed me that details will be passed on to district judge who will then set a date should hear shortly about date of hearing.

AQ were supposed to be with courts on 06/11/06, have recieved a copy of cobbetts aq.

However have notice in Question G OTHER INFO cobbetss have stated there request for further information which was due on 31/10/06 and in light of this may amend there claim or apply to strike out.

have i missed anything or is this standard as have sent numerous copies of charging schedule so they have all details.

do i need to respond to this now or is it just a matter of waiting.

[brisgirlie]

JUST AN UPDATE RECIEVED MY CHEQUE IN THIS MORNING POST YIPEE

will make donation once cheque is cleared

[brisgirlie]

Can Mod Plse Move Thread

Thanks All For Your Help!

[Michael Browne]

Excellent!!

 

Please complete the bank survey.

 

See here for advice after settlement:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/7261-when-you-get-your.html

 

Congratulations. Enjoy the dosh!!!