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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Rossendales Bailiff - a positive experience (!)


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hiya!

 

I popped on here after trying to get some info on rent deposit/property maintenance etc and noticed a few threads in this section on rossendales bailiffs.. thought I'd chime in with a positive (!!!) experience I had with them

 

well, maybe not positive (at the end of the day I still had to pay up), but nothing like the stories some people have told

 

I'd never dealt with bailiffs before, so I had no idea what to expect... (I always had a mental picture of big scary guys who come round and try to leave with your telly)

 

long story short, I owed a fair bit of council tax... ignord it and hoped it'd all go away (it didn't). I got a letter through from rossendales bailiffs, giving me all the legal info, stating my rights etc

 

I gave them a call and made arrangements to pay it in installments... they were really friendly, and didn't try to pressure me to pay more than I could afford

 

am not trying to paint them 'whiter than white' but you've got to tell it like it is... I don't expect to be treated like a criminal for owing a few hundred quid council tax, and fair play rossendales, they didnt

 

so that's my painless rossendales experience - not very exciting eh? :) anyone else had any dealings with them?

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I guess if you owe the money then Rossendales bailiffs are entitled to pursue you. People who don't pay council tax cost everyone :-x (who do pay it) more, so I can understand why councils make an effort to pursue those who evade their responsibilities as otherwise they would not be able to provide services to those who really need them.

 

Pay your council tax on time like everyone else and these companies wont bother you, its really easy.

 

;)

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BB

 

That's a bit naive frankly. Some people, believe it or not, experience temporary financial hardship beyond their control. Like for example, when your boss robs the company's assets and you turn up to locked gates instead of a job. Some people, believe it or not, get ill.

 

In all these cases, your caring sharing local authority will demand THE FULL YEARS CT in advance if you missed say the second and third payment.

 

EDIT - On the other hand, I should add that i sometimes find "oops! i forgot to pay four years Council Tax" a little beyond belief!!

Edited by Thegreenpimpernel
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You can ALWAYS talk to the people you owe money to, local council included.

 

If you get into difficulties for what ever reason there is always someone to speak to. They will work hard to help (they want the money even if its late) way before it ever gets anywhere near bringing in the baliffs. What they don't do is allow you to ignore repeated letters, phone calls etc.

 

Baliffs are a last resort for people who just don't want to pay their way. You have to take a stand at some point otherwise nobody would pay.

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I think depends on the 'luck of the draw' of who you are dealing with. My experiences vary from good (as you describe) and somewhat less good, like "i don't give a **** i want my ****ing money or i'll *****ing bankrupt you"

 

The public / banking sector equivalent is to reply:

 

"the money IS due"

 

to everything you say, even when you inform them the debtor is undergoing chemo!!

 

Not everyone is as understanding as you seem to be.

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It is important to note the distinction between DCA’s (debt collection agencies) and bailiffs. It is also important to note the differences that apply between certain fines even though they collectively come under the umbrella of Magistrate Court fines.

Each bailiff must be certificated in order to collect rent arrears, council tax arrears and certain other debts for example parking fines and speeding fines. The certificate is issued by a County Court Judge and is usually renewed every 2 years. In order to obtain a certificate, the bailiff must lodge with the court a bond or other security to the value of £10,000.

To check to see if a bailiff is certificated simply telephone the Ministry of Justice on 020 3334 3555 and give them the name of the bailiff and the company he is working for, or check online here Certificated Bailiff. They will be able to tell you which court issued the original certificate and you can then call that court and check the details further. However, please note that there may be administrative delays and if a search reveals that a bailiff is not listed as certificated then you should inform the bailiff that a search of the HMCS on-line Certificated Bailiff's Register does not include him. You should then request a copy of his certificate, or have him confirm which Court granted his certificate and when.

A company trading in debt recovery must have had at the time of collection a Category E Consumer Credit Licence pursuant to Section 21(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Since July 2008 this has changed to Category F.

Bailiffs do not have the power to arrest anyone, only the police have that power.

The behaviour expected from a bailiff when carrying out his duty is very carefully laid out in the “National Standard for Enforcement Agents” which, among other things states that:-

- “Enforcement agents should always produce relevant identification on request, such as a badge or ID card, together with a written authorisation to act on behalf of the creditor”

- “Enforcement agents must carry out their duties in a professional, calm and dignified manner. They must dress appropriately and act with discretion and fairness”

- “Enforcement agents will on each occasion when a visit is made to a debtor’s property which incurs a fee for the debtor, leave a notice detailing the fees charged to date, including the one for that visit, and the fees which will be incurred if further action becomes necessary. If a written request is made an itemised account of fees will be provided”

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I'm with BarnoldswkBob -

 

Everyone has to pay council tax and those who don't are not contributing to society.

 

From what I hear Rossendales are actually one of the better companies - they give you notice on what you owe and if you call them they will tell you the law and what your options are.

 

That said obviously having to deal with any bailiffs is not going to be a pleasant experience due to the nature of the business.

 

End of the day everyone thinks that they are an exception or that their circumstances are different, but when it comes down to it you owe what you owe and if you are ill and your doctor can provide evidence of this you can get time off work, benefits, etc!

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There's a big difference between 'don't' pay and temporarily 'can't' pay.

 

You'll find that those who "don't contribute to society" don't have to pay it in the first place.

 

I don't see how adding extra cost (which does NOT go to the council), harassing and removing peoples means to get to work, helps any one (including wider society).

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Some people in here make it sound oh so easy:rolleyes:

Councils cock up, Fact!! Then take their time to get it sorted, by then its often far too late.

Councils are far to eager to get the bailiffs involved because its easier for them to pass the buck.

Councils dont give people enough time to sort their financial difficulties out and get liability orders out within two months for non payers and then its for a full years worth of CT not just for the amount that is owed.

Its the councils who waste the money in the first place on frivolous things and poor investments, where the CT payers foot the bill for.

If the councils paid more attention in their budgeting and their own financial debt the CT payers would be paying less CT at an affordable rate instead of what we are paying now.

Try putting yourself in the shoes of the poverty stricken who are not entitled to benefits because they earn a penny over the required amount to qualify. what would you choose? feed your kids or pay the CT, I know which one I would choose.

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Dont feed the trolls, they are getting fat :p

awww and I wanted to play;)

I have come to this conclusion that bailiffs are scavengers and parasites, feeding off the poorest of the poor and will take what they can just to get what they can at any cost, and its what they want to do. How sad their lives must be.:lol:

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Rossendales must be getting desperate - good! I notice they seem to be leaving the odd comment on the whocallsme boards as well.

 

"Everyone has to pay council tax and those who don't are not contributing to society." - What exactly is this supposed to mean? Not everyone does have to pay council tax, but everyone (through VAT) does contribute to society. You'll have to come up with a better statement than that.

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Everyone has to pay council tax and those who don't are not contributing to society

I missed that!! And I find offense to that statement spottedp. I do more than my fair share to society. What a lot of verbal diarrhea you spout.

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"Everyone has to pay council tax and those who don't are not contributing to society."

I dont pay council tax but i contribute to this society!!!

So much so that i even put my life on the line for this society, same as many of my comrades.

hello all:-)

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Dont feed the trolls, they are getting fat :p

 

We seem to be getting a few lately, do you think they come out and play more in the spring?

 

Oh dear, bailiffs have never been that bright... :rolleyes:

 

Best wishes

Rae

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I too have had very possitive experiences with Rossendales(Proud to be Professional) and rightly so. By their choosing to make all visits and hand deliver all paperwork intended for me to addresses other than mine they have protected me from the headache of opening my door at 07.15 to a bailiff and a van. I have also saved the expence of taking out a front page spread in my local newspaper, informing my fellow residents of my financial status as their bailiffs ensured that my sensitive personal date was presented in concise terms without the need for respecting the Data Protection Act. I say we need more of these civic minded people. The down side is Rossendales(Proud to be Professionals) Expect me to pay for this service, but it's a small price considering the peace of mind it brings.

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