Cygnet and ACF, faults with car and bill of sale problems.

[trooper68]

Hiya

 

Ok, if what you state is correct with the date and signing then the BoS is void, it must be 7 clear days(unless one of them are a bank holiday), chances are your is void, but you have to get it void.

 

heres the act http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1878/cukpga_18780031_en_1 have a look at the amendments after.

 

look at point 8. clear as a crystal.

 

Now if the BoS is void the CCA can still be enforcable and that they have to follow the CCA 1974, to stop them repo you must have paid more than a 3rd, after that they need a court order.

 

If it was me, I would challange the BoS and get it void. as it clearly is-one issue down

Then I would then write a letter to the company and complain, letter only no phone calls, you want a paper trail (keep the envlopes-date stamp) Send all letters via reg mail. SAR the company, this will get all the information on your account, even telephone transcripts and CHARGES to said account.

 

Complaining puts the account under serious dispute (you can put that in the letter) they have 6 weeks to sort your issue out, if you still do not get satisfaction make a complaint to the FO and TS. You can tell them if you wish that the BoS is void, stating the 7 days rule and you can then as them for a explination on why your signature is on a piece of paper you have never signed...see what they say-if anything...

 

trooper68

[nikkikitch]

Ok thats great thanks, but if the BOS is void and i argue the case and win, where does that leave me?

 

Ideally i want to get rid of the car, it was a rush purchase and it costs me too much in fuel/finance/insurance every month. Ive only had it for 9 months, but including the deposit have paid over half what the car is worth!

 

If the BOS is void, would this mean, as the loan is no longer secured on the car, i could sell the car and pay off the finance?

 

Im just trying to see the best and least finanicially draining way of getting rid of this massive mistake!!

 

If theres a technicality i can use through the BOS and CCA thats perfect, but im more than prepared to still be left with some kind of debt, its just how thats enforceable and how i can negotiate the figure?

 

Thanks a lot for your help.

[nikkikitch]

Hi

 

Ive posted a few times on this subject but still dont have a definite answer.

 

Ive determined that my BOS is definitely void so where does that leave me?

 

I want to get rid of the car, its an absolte drain on my finances in terms of finance, fuel and insurance, so the ideal outcome would be for me to get rid completely!

 

So if the BOS is void, does this mean i can hand the car back or at least reduce my payments as the loan is no longer secured on the car?

 

Any advice welcome!

 

Thanks

[postggj]

if the bos is void, it will revert back to the agreement as such

 

do you have a hp

conditional sale

or a

 

fixed sum loan agreement

 

how long have you hadthe car

 

are we talking cygnet of the funding co on this

[nikkikitch]

Hi

 

Ive had the car for 9 months. Its finance secured on a bill of sale rather than HP.

 

Thanks

[postggj]

you are missing something on this

 

for a car to be secured by a bill of sale,

 

a credit agreement needs to be in place

 

who is the finance /loan company

[nikkikitch]

Yes there is also a CCA in place.

 

The BOS was stamped outside of the 7 days, doesnt have a solicitors details and was signed by the agent who sold me the car. All of which i believe makes it void? I havent checked the text of the CCA to ensure that too is correct.

Yes its Cygnet.

[postggj]

well now the good news

 

the bos and agreement will be linked

 

if one is defective, both are but you will have one hell of a fight on your hands

 

i need you to scan your agreement into your computer

 

then upload it onto your thread by googling a program called photobucket

 

if you have any probs ill send you my email address and ill do it

 

remember to deleate personal info but leave in the figures

 

imost of these micky mouse agreements have somthing wrong with them and i am quite good at spotting them

[nikkikitch]

Hi

 

well with all due respect. I did actually send you my papers a while back but never got a response?

 

N

[postggj]

never received them

 

do you still have my email address to send again

 

every agreement i receive i edit and put onpeoples threads

[nikkikitch]

Can you resend your email address and ill send tomorrow?

 

Thanks

[nikkikitch]

Im posting this as a seperate thread in order to get some urgent help really!

 

There is much opinion on the '7 day rule'. The simple google definition is:

 

''days reckoned from one day to another, excluding both the first and last day; as,

from Sunday to Sunday there are six clear days.''

 

My questions are

 

1) My BOS was stamped on 21st Dec and stamped on the 29th. That means it was stamped on the 8th day, but by the above definition, excluding the first and last day, would that make it valid?

 

2) Is Christmas day excluded from the clear day definition?

 

Any help appreciated.

[Reporter01]

testing

[raydetinu]

what does it say in the credit agreement about the goods purchased?

 

see below:

http://www.creditlaw.co.uk/_doc/OFT%20commentary%20on%20Bills%20of%20Sale.pdf

Edited April 11, 2011 by raydetinu

[Emilyjane28uk]

Hi i have a sale and bill agreement with a company callled the funding corporation. I thought my agreement was on hp not this rubbish sale and bill. I want to know if there is anyway out of the agreement. Please let me know.

[afcwben]

Hi i have a sale and bill agreement with a company callled the funding corporation. I thought my agreement was on hp not this rubbish sale and bill. I want to know if there is anyway out of the agreement. Please let me know.

 

Look at post #2

[raydetinu]

It all depends if the BOS has been regitered at the high court, which it must be to be valid.

You can check by writting to the high court with the details. If has not been registered they cannot take it back or take you to court for the money.

Is there any mention on the BOS about it being regulated by the CCA?

[nikkikitch]

Hi all

 

I started a number of threads on this back in 2010. I have a car with Cygnet with a 'void' bill of sale. It seemed to be the opinion, legal or otherwise , that a void BOS would mean a void CCA but nothing concrete.

 

Ive read the more recent posts regarding the issues around BOS and the CCA, but it still seems there is no definite answer as to whether the credit agreement would also be void.

 

Does anyone have any further insight on the matter?

 

Thanks

[nikkikitch]

Hi

 

I was actually going to settle my car finance before i started to read about VT.!

 

Ive already posted a number of times about my cars void bill of sale, but it seems no clearer as to whether that would void my credit agreement?

 

Anyhow, a quick question about VT. I have finance with the funding corporation, I've paid over half the TOTAL payable so if i can't hand the car back based on a void bill of sale, i believe at this stage i can hand it back on a VT?

 

The only issue is, its just expired on its MOT and i know it needs some work doing, new tyres and potentially new break pads.

Can i hand it back without an MOT? Its taxed and insured.

 

Thanks

[nikkikitch]

just to add, my car is on a credit agreement and bill of sale rather than a hire purchase, can i still VT?

[nikkikitch]

Hi

 

I have a car on credit agreement secured on a bill of sale rather than a hire purchase agreement. I have paid over half the total payable and am wondering if i can return it on voluntary termination.

 

Ive read lots of contradictory posts, some saying you can terminate on credit agreement AND HP, others saying on HP only.

 

Ive checked my contract and interestingly the only box not ticked is the option to terminate early!

The company in question are fairly dodgy, ridiculous interest rates etc and I've been trying to prove for a while that the bill of sale the car is secured on is actually void. The popular opinion in all consumer/legal forums is that I'm correct but trying to find a piece of law that isn't archaic to support my case is very tricky!

 

Anyway, my question is can i terminate? If not, is the bill of sale anything to bargain with?

 

And why would they include the option to terminate early yet its the only section of the contract i wasn't asked to initial and sign?

 

The other question is, if i can terminate, does the car have to be MOT'd? Its just expired! The car is in good condition but does need new tyres and potentially new break pads. Its taxed.

 

Im in the UK, thanks

[sequenci]

A VT is only available on hire-purchase/conditional sale agreements.

 

Sorry!

[nikkikitch]

Oh boooo. Never mind, thanks for your help.

[tonycard]

Im having the same problem , this is my take on it :The agreement is set up to confuse and deceive.

The first page leads you to believe you are signing a credit agreement regulated fully by the cca act 1974, but your not, this is how regulated agreements should be set out according to the 1974 act and as they are using the bill of sale act 1882 they need to show the figures clearly.

 

Then the 1974 act is mentioned in section 6 and 7 of the bill of sale again this is to deceive as all I think it means is any default notice or termination letter has to be worded correctly according to the 1974 act.

They do not tell you that they can default after 1 late payment then reposes after terminating regardless of how much you have paid yet if you had paid a third under the 1974 act they would have to go to court for repossession order so it is not fully regulated under the 1974 act . its normally 2 missed payments before default triggered

 

The only signature you will find is on the bill of sale regulated under the 1878 act ammended 1882. If you take the first page with the figures on it and no signature on it away all your left with is a bill of sale.

DONT FORGET THIS IS ONLY MY TAKE ON IT. So if the bill of sale is void there is no agreement

[sequenci]

My understanding is that if the BOS is void the security is void - but the regulated credit agreement would still exist; just in an 'unsecured' capacity - so long as it adheres to the contractual requires of the CCA.

 

It has, however, been a while since I spent a great deal of time on these so wouldn't know of any developments and/or case law that has happened in the last 18 months or so.