Help with appealing PCN

[harrystottle]

Hi

 

I’m posting this in the hope that someone can tell me if there’s a way to appeal against this PCN (copies attached).

 

I had off-street parking for my car but this suddenly came to a stop, so I had to put the car on the street in a residents/pay and display bay over the bank holiday weekend. Sunday was fine as there are no parking restrictions on this day but I forgot to move it the next morning (bank holiday Monday) and the buggers got me!

 

I have now got a residents’ permit but too late to avoid this I’m afraid.

 

I know I was parked illegally but I really resent paying these exorbitant fines and the aggressive way these regulations are enforced, which makes the whole regime nothing more than stealth tax in my view and that’s why I am trying to avoid payment – simple as that!

 

If anyone can help I would be most grateful…

 

All the best

 

H

[letshelp]

Send Green and Mean a pm with a link to this thread.

regards

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

PCN details are too small to read.

Your options as far as I can tell are to go down the mitigation route and/or find a reason to appeal and hope that the LA generate a foul up or do not pursue.

[green_and_mean]

Send Green and Mean a pm with a link to this thread.

regards

 

I'd already seen it but my could not find my magnifying glass, lol.

[harrystottle]

yes they did come out a bit small for some reason - if at first and all that...here we go again

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is that better?!!!

[harrystottle]

bump!

[green_and_mean]

It looks fine to me I'd take the discount and put it down to experience.

[harrystottle]

ok thanks mate

[TheBogsDollocks]

PCN fails to comply with reg 3(2)(b)

 

(2) A penalty charge notice served under regulation 9 of the General Regulations must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it under paragraph 1 of the Schedule to the General Regulations, include the following information—

(a) that a person on whom a notice to owner is served will be entitled to make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and may appeal to an adjudicator if those representations are rejected; and

 

(b) that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner is served—

(i) those representations will be considered;

 

In any further appeal include the following paragraphs.

 

“The PCN fails to comply with regulation 3(2)(b) contained within Statutory Instrument 2007/3482 and it is therefore my belief that the PCN is not lawful.

 

Although the PCN does say that representations will be considered, it fails to make the recipient aware of the period of time they are lawfully entitled to in which to submit such representations. The lawful period is given by regulation 3(2)(b) and it is given as any time before the NtO is served and as such a PCN must convey this fact to the recipient.

 

Such failure could prejudice the recipient in that they may only believe they have 28 days to submit an informal representation when the truth is that they have as long as it takes for the authority to serve the NtO. For instance, a person (where the NtO has not yet been served) may only remember about the PCN on the 30th day after service and as the PCN implies you can only challenge within 28 days that person will not appeal. However, that person is lawfully entitled to appeal informally if no NtO has yet been served.

 

Considering this fact I expect you to cancel this penalty charge forthwith. If you do not cancel then I will require you to explain fully why you think the PCN does comply with regulation 3(2)(b).”

 

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?...p;filesize=8355

Don't be surprised if they reject this as they will not willingly accept that all their PCN's are invalid but if you present this appeal point to an adjudicator accompanied with a copy of a compliant PCN (such as the London ones often seen on site) you should win without too much bother unless the adjudicator is dim.

[harrystottle]

Mr Bogs Dollox I am in your debt!

 

You really know your stuff that's for sure - thanks for taking the time out to look at this and for sharing your knowledge with us - I for one really appreciate it :o)

 

Will get the letter off today and promise to keep you all posted so watch this space

 

H

 

PCN fails to comply with reg 3(2)(b)

 

(2) A penalty charge notice served under regulation 9 of the General Regulations must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it under paragraph 1 of the Schedule to the General Regulations, include the following information—

(a) that a person on whom a notice to owner is served will be entitled to make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and may appeal to an adjudicator if those representations are rejected; and

 

(b) that, if representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified for the purpose before a notice to owner is served—

(i) those representations will be considered;

 

In any further appeal include the following paragraphs.

 

“The PCN fails to comply with regulation 3(2)(b) contained within Statutory Instrument 2007/3482 and it is therefore my belief that the PCN is not lawful.

 

Although the PCN does say that representations will be considered, it fails to make the recipient aware of the period of time they are lawfully entitled to in which to submit such representations. The lawful period is given by regulation 3(2)(b) and it is given as any time before the NtO is served and as such a PCN must convey this fact to the recipient.

 

Such failure could prejudice the recipient in that they may only believe they have 28 days to submit an informal representation when the truth is that they have as long as it takes for the authority to serve the NtO. For instance, a person (where the NtO has not yet been served) may only remember about the PCN on the 30th day after service and as the PCN implies you can only challenge within 28 days that person will not appeal. However, that person is lawfully entitled to appeal informally if no NtO has yet been served.

 

Considering this fact I expect you to cancel this penalty charge forthwith. If you do not cancel then I will require you to explain fully why you think the PCN does comply with regulation 3(2)(b).”

 

Results within Legislation - Statute Law Database

Don't be surprised if they reject this as they will not willingly accept that all their PCN's are invalid but if you present this appeal point to an adjudicator accompanied with a copy of a compliant PCN (such as the London ones often seen on site) you should win without too much bother unless the adjudicator is dim.

[harrystottle]

Hello again

 

I have now received a reply from the parking nazis at Brighton & Hove and predictably enough they are refuting the claim that the PCN is invalid.

 

I have attached a .pdf to this post - just in case anyone would like to see if they can spot a procedural snafu, or maybe suggest the best way forward from here.

 

Also, I am ashamed to say that the buggers got me again, this time on a double yellow at 08.14 on a Sunday morning (pcn as below).

 

 

 

Does anyone think it may be worth going down the mitigation route on this one, bearing in mind that there are a tiny amount of bays (maybe 40) for about 300+ dwellings in the street where I live, and of these only 4 are residents only, the remainder being pay and display - this is why I'm always getting done! On the Saturday evening when I parked the car, the neighbouring streets were full with some being forced to double park and there was simply nowhere to put my car within reasonable walking distance. I was going to move it first thing but didn't realise they would be out on the prowl so early (the car was first spotted at 07.42 according to the PCN!) Past experience tells me that they would not be at all sympathetic to such a plea, and my other concern is that this may close the door on any procedural appeals against this PCN in future, should the plea for mitigation go unheard.

 

Also can anyone offer an opinion on whether the statistic above re available parking space availability (or lack thereof) may cut any ice with, and be likely to be heard more sympathetically by the adjudicator if it came down to it?

 

TIA for any help as always

 

Harrystottle

scan.pdf

[lamma]

what a crap response from them, they don't agree, it conforms to guidelines - what about conforming to statute. I would take it to adjudication and expect them to drop out. add to the adjudication appeal that the council avoided responding to your point - they didn't address the quoted regs at all did they. typical slimey stuff. what do you have to lose by taking it to adjudication ?

[harrystottle]

good point - well made :o)

My thoughts on the latest one were that I could just go down the same route with it, questioning the legality of the PCN and going to adjudication again if they send the same response.

 

H

[harrystottle]

bump!

 

Does anyone think it may be worth going down the mitigation route on this one, bearing in mind that there are a tiny amount of bays (maybe 40) for about 300+ dwellings in the street where I live, and of these only 4 are residents only, the remainder being pay and display - this is why I'm always getting done! On the Saturday evening when I parked the car, the neighbouring streets were full with some being forced to double park and there was simply nowhere to put my car within reasonable walking distance. I was going to move it first thing but didn't realise they would be out on the prowl so early (the car was first spotted at 07.42 according to the PCN!) Past experience tells me that they would not be at all sympathetic to such a plea, and my other concern is that this may close the door on any procedural appeals against this PCN in future, should the plea for mitigation go unheard.

[green_and_mean]

bump!

 

Does anyone think it may be worth going down the mitigation route on this one, bearing in mind that there are a tiny amount of bays (maybe 40) for about 300+ dwellings in the street where I live, and of these only 4 are residents only, the remainder being pay and display - this is why I'm always getting done! On the Saturday evening when I parked the car, the neighbouring streets were full with some being forced to double park and there was simply nowhere to put my car within reasonable walking distance. I was going to move it first thing but didn't realise they would be out on the prowl so early (the car was first spotted at 07.42 according to the PCN!) Past experience tells me that they would not be at all sympathetic to such a plea, and my other concern is that this may close the door on any procedural appeals against this PCN in future, should the plea for mitigation go unheard.

 

Inconvenience is unlikely to win as mitigation in my opinion unless you have walking problems.

[harrystottle]

I was thinking more in terms of the issue of the lack of availability of parking spaces rather than the inconvenience of not being able to park eg "40 bays for about 300+ dwellings in the street, and of these only 4 are residents only". Does this count for anything with adjudicators do you think?

[lamma]

No.

[harrystottle]

ah okay

[harrystottle]

Hi Folks

 

I've just received the Notice of Rejection of representations from the L.A. I have been searching for an image of a PCN that differs from this one in as much as it gives a clearer indication of the time that is available to make representations (BogsDollocks was saying that London PCN's are compliant as opposed to this one which is not). Could anyone please point me in the right direction?

 

Thanks in advance

 

H

[harrystottle]

Hi All

 

I have now received the reply from my LA regarding my appeal to the adjudicator and I wanted to post this in case anyone had any comments or thoughts about their arguments.

 

One question: I have notice a couple of things that I would like to take issue with, so would I be able to make my comments known to the Adjudicator at this stage?

 

Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to give

 

H

BH BS.pdf

[TheBogsDollocks]

The expected response.

 

Harry... PM sent to you.