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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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After judgment gained against LBL have they paid out on the Judgment


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Hi guys me again. At last I can tell you all the truth behind my problem. I found out in January a mate at the time stole my LB from my filing cabinet and pulled a LBL.

I no previous threads have said something different but when I found out I was threatened that if I went to old bill I would never get car back,so I went along with this (he also said I would get hurt) I had spent alot of cash on car in January new engine £2000 it cost. LBL where told.

In July they took it. I then found out that everything could be challenged that meant I could get car back he wouldn't have to pay the loan. he had it on a plate. I did all court paperwork all he had to do was sign it. But even that was to much trouble.

Any way they sold my car leaving him I think with a very large loan. I went crazy and finally reported it to old bill. They are not really interested because I cant prove its my car because I had it put in another name to stop Bailiffs on a Council Tax bill I didn't owe about two years ago or so. The car then had accident and was off road for ten months . It went back on road for 5 weeks then blew up. It was then off road for a year, until l I paid for a new engine January this year.

He is saying I let him do this. I didn't no a thing. he has not made any payments at all not even after I found out.

He is now trying to get me done for fraud on a BT acc that he took out here and saying that I used his Bank acc to pay for it. I didn't put it in his name. The police are more interested in this than the car part. I have the person whose name the car was in to come forward .

If he gets away with the theft of the car, LBL are still in trouble because they where told that I had put money into the car, and according to the BOS act I have an equatable ownership on the car so they can still be done for theft and the recovery company.

I have had enough of the whole thing please I'm desperate for advice

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I have also reported this to the police. The police have asked questions with LBL I again emailed them. I have not heard a thing. I am in the middle of applying to challenging the very existence of the BOS on grounds set out in sec 5. of the Act. I am the True owner, (legal owner, also Im the equitable owner of the chattels . The grantor assigned away the property absolutely. to another ( another being me) because of the equitable interest I had in the chattels, due to the money the grantor had from me (on a loan basis)for the engine and relating costs of the labour for works carried out on it.

They had been told of my interest in the chattels by both the grantor and me the third party. But months later after this they came un announced using a level phyical and mental abuse to gain poccession

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Hi guys me again. At last I can tell you all the truth behind my problem. I found out in January a mate at the time stole my LB from my filing cabinet and pulled a LBL.

I no previous threads have said something different but when I found out I was threatened that if I went to old bill I would never get car back,so I went along with this (he also said I would get hurt) I had spent alot of cash on car in January new engine £2000 it cost. LBL where told.

In July they took it. I then found out that everything could be challenged that meant I could get car back he wouldn't have to pay the loan. he had it on a plate. I did all court paperwork all he had to do was sign it. But even that was to much trouble.

Any way they sold my car leaving him I think with a very large loan. I went crazy and finally reported it to old bill. They are not really interested because I cant prove its my car because I had it put in another name to stop Bailiffs on a Council Tax bill I didn't owe about two years ago or so. The car then had accident and was off road for ten months . It went back on road for 5 weeks then blew up. It was then off road for a year, until l I paid for a new engine January this year.

He is saying I let him do this. I didn't no a thing. he has not made any payments at all not even after I found out.

He is now trying to get me done for fraud on a BT acc that he took out here and saying that I used his Bank acc to pay for it. I didn't put it in his name. The police are more interested in this than the car part. I have the person whose name the car was in to come forward .

If he gets away with the theft of the car, LBL are still in trouble because they where told that I had put money into the car, and according to the BOS act I have an equatable ownership on the car so they can still be done for theft and the recovery company.

I have had enough of the whole thing please I'm desperate for advice

 

bump

Trooper68:)

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Hi guys me again, can any body please advise me if the name on a car logbook is proof of legal owner.

Can a logbook have one persons name, but be legally owned by another.

If so can you point me to any law supporting this, I have issues with Logbook loans, who took my car due to a logbook loan placed on it.

I have studied the Bill of Sales Act which gives them the security on my car. It states sec 5 of the Act, contains two important provisions avoiding a Bill of Sale, "except as against the grantor," in respect of

 

(1) personal chattels not specifically described in the scheduled;

and

 

(2) personal chattels specifically described therein of which the grantor was not the true owner at the date of the deed

 

Can any body please clarify the legal term for the following

 

1.Legal ownership

 

2.Equitable ownership.

 

Or just advice on legal requirements if any on a logbook

Edited by Nicky Bodmin
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BigBear I don't disagree with what you say but & it's a big but, by your own admission you have only looked at one matter involving LBL & I can tell you that some who have looked at many can say that LBL reps do not explain the purpose of the BOS & in fact it is alleged that their reps do underplay the significance of the BOS when asking the client to sign

 

Fleeced It's not the rep who swears the affidavit it's the solicitor for the firm which is worse if it's proven the BOS was presented for signature in a manner likely to mislead

Hi guys sorry to but in, has anyone seen an affidavit with LBL solicitor swearing the Oath if so, according to the BOS Act if this happens the solicitor is commiting PUJURY very serious. Even if someone that is linked to the solicitor swears it the same applies. And according to the BOS ACT a solicitor has to explain in detail to the borrower, the power of the BOS and what it does, not the Rep. This has to be done before the execution Signatures of the BOS The credit agreement first then the BOS
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Hi Nicky

 

Let me apologise for butting in.......BUT

 

No, No, No, No......

 

do not confuse the wording of the BoS Act 1878 with the wording of the BoS Act 1882....

 

the wording you are speaking of was repealed in the 1882 BoS Act.

 

the new words refer to a 'credible witness' and the issue is - is it credible that a representative of the Trader who may have a vested interest in the Agreement - should be considered 'credible'.

 

A solicitor of Oaths is not liable in the same way as previous at all.

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Hi Nicky

 

Let me apologise for butting in.......BUT

 

No, No, No, No......

 

do not confuse the wording of the BoS Act 1878 with the wording of the BoS Act 1882....

 

the wording you are speaking of was repealed in the 1882 BoS Act.

 

the new words refer to a 'credible witness' and the issue is - is it credible that a representative of the Trader who may have a vested interest in the Agreement - should be considered 'credible'.

 

A solicitor of Oaths is not liable in the same way as previous at all.

 

Agreed, can it be seen that a credible witness who profits from the sale, I.E commision? or sign as a witness as say manager, with no name and address? So in respect of the law, how can it not be a conflict of intrest?

 

trooper68

Trooper68:)

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A witness should NOT be a beneficiary & a solicitor will be liable if he rubber stamps an affidavit without swearing the presenter ............... Rather difficult I would have thought if the rep & client lives in Durham & the solicitor is based in say Wimbledon

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Hi guys me again, can any body please advise me if the name on a car logbook is proof of legal owner.

Can a logbook have one persons name, but be legally owned by another.

If so can you point me to any law supporting this, I have issues with Logbook loans, who took my car due to a logbook loan placed on it.

I have studied the Bill of Sales Act which gives them the security on my car. It states sec 5 of the Act, contains two important provisions avoiding a Bill of Sale, "except as against the grantor," in respect of

 

(1) personal chattels not specifically described in the scheduled;

and

 

(2) personal chattels specifically described therein of which the grantor was not the true owner at the date of the deed

 

Can any body please clarify the legal term for the following

 

1.Legal ownership

 

2.Equitable ownership.

 

Or just advice on legal requirements if any on a logbook

 

 

A logbook is not proof of ownership. Its a proof of a keeper.

A finance company owns the car until the payments are finished, but, you "keep" the car at your address.

thats what was explained to me by the fuzz..:-)

 

trooper68

 

trooper68

Trooper68:)

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Do you have the log book? Do you have a reciept?, you could try an injunction to stop them taking it at county court, I understand Nicky Bodmin did this.

 

trooper68

I didnt get an injunction they sold it before I could. I have gone to the police but they are not interested. But that dont mean your police will take the same action
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A logbook is not proof of ownership. Its a proof of a keeper.

A finance company owns the car until the payments are finished, but, you "keep" the car at your address.

thats what was explained to me by the fuzz..:-)

 

trooper68

 

trooper68

Hi, but the car didnt belong to the person who took out the loan. They have now sold the car and I have lost alot of money. And the signatures on all the paperwork are all different and not the borrowers
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LBL - BOS unfair terms. - Log Book Loans / Bills of Sale - Consumer Action Group

 

Hi can you please tell me if I can use this to on LBL because they took my car and sold it when they had been told it was not the grantors car. I dont have the V5 because it was taken and name changed for the application of the LBL. I have been to the police and they say its civil. How can it be when they took my car.

I need to do a letter before action on thieft charges to LBL and fraudulant signatures on application for loan. Is there any of these letters on the forum

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Hi, but the car didnt belong to the person who took out the loan. They have now sold the car and I have lost alot of money. And the signatures on all the paperwork are all different and not the borrowers

 

 

Then you are a victim of fraud, the police should be informed. However, I would go along with the person who had the loan and make a statement to the Police, stating that the signature is not his/hers. The Police must make inquires based on your statments. That would be my next step.

 

trooper68

Trooper68:)

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Why not, give it a go, whats the worst that can happen? Its only a cost of a stamp and recorded post. Edit it for yourself.

 

It may get them to panic and make a mistake. You never know, they have contacted people and paid out.

It would be nice if they stated they are agents and not baliffs...

Heres hoping.

 

trooper68

Trooper68:)

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I have tried to open the link on this but it comes up with an error report is there any form of letter that can be sent to LBL about the fraudulent signatures they are the one I want to scare into paying out. Also they stole and sold my car when it is not the grantors car to do a loan on

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Hi thanks for reply, I didnt buy the car with LBL on it I have always owned the car. Its was off road for long time sat outside my house. I put it back on the road in jan09. They have removed and sold the car even thought they where had been told it was not his car. The police have been involved but dont want to no.

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Hi Applecart, can the same apply to my case, I have always owned my car. It was off the road for a year. I then had nem engine put in and the baliffs came to take it. I told them and company that it was my car. But then took it in July and have now sold it. I cant prove its mine because the log book had gone. But I have got all details of purchase and ins claim just before it went off the road. I can prove that I had made enquiries back in July for the engine and I paid for engine by my credit card and can prove that I took money out of bank account then paid it onto card. The company that I bought engine from can give dates and details of the first enquiry on this engine and the garage that did the work can give evidence that I paid them, to do the work. What more evidence do I need that its is my car.

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Hi Nicky B

 

I have not been able to get your link to appear and it is difficult to fully understand your situation - so bear with me.....when I suggest that if any of the information posted 'fits' then take from it what you can and ignore what may not assist.

 

If after looking at any of the solutions offered anywhere on the forum by anyone else assists, patch and paste what you deem to be of use to satisfy yourself that you are ready to move your case forward.

 

Once you are sure how you would like to proceed - instruct a solicitor or if you feel confident enough - file a claim yourself

 

hope this helps : )

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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thank you I have got to do it myself because I cant afford to instruct a solicitor. I cant work because I need my car to work. So a straight forward application on the grounds the car is mine on N244 form. Because the car has been sold how much do I claim, because I spend two thousand on it in January and it had about two thousand in extras that I put on it.. What can I claim in destress any advice please.Do I have to challenge the BOS. Can I use the Human rights art 8. The way the Baliff treated me they where violent when they took the car pushed me out of the way onto the floor to gain entry threatened to have me arrested for stealing my car if I didnt give them the car. LBL will not tell me whyo took car and they didnt give any pperwork to say who they where

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yeah perhaps the link is broken. There are templates in the home page, but I would make one to suit your situ. Reading you posts it seems that most of the avenues have not been successful Yet.

 

Why not edit the above post a try that, remove the thing on traffic.

 

trooper68

Trooper68:)

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I have not tried any yet because I dont no how to move forward now that the car has been sold I have writen to LBL but no reply about the sale of my car. All I no it was my car taken to pay someone elses debt. I cant afford a solicitor. Im starting to not be able to deal with this

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