After judgment gained against LBL have they paid out on the Judgment

[trooper68]

Buddy, don't give up. Ok, you have sent them a letter, they have not replied. Lets get a bit more serious. They must have some paper work relating to you and the car. SAR them, see what happens, they have to give you a copy of everything relating to you and put the reg on the SAR.

we can try and get as much info as poss.

 

stick with it.

 

trooper68

[Nicky Bodmin]

Hi the only details they have of me is when I told them in January it was my car. When they came to remove it in January they told me I was mrs ..... the wife of the borrower. And threatened me with arrest because I wouldnt tell the where the borrower was. I am definitely not his wife. Then again whjen they took it in July. cant I post the letter I am about to send to them by PM

[trooper68]

What letter? Send the SAR aswell, that is backed by Law. The Data Protection Act 1998, have a read up on it.

 

trooper68

[applecart]

Hi Nicky B

 

If I were lodging a claim in lieu of your circumstance, I would lodge a claim on a N244 form (I can't see that filing the claim on any other form would assist, because they have already taken the car - so it needs to be a general claim form; which is the N244 form)

 

As you are having to go it 'alone' please see:

 

PART 7 - HOW TO START PROCEEDINGS – THE CLAIM FORM - Ministry of Justice

 

then see:

PRACTICE DIRECTION – HOW TO START PROCEEDINGS – THE CLAIM FORM - Ministry of Justice

 

to get you started, but yu can see all the 'practice directions' on line which will help to guide you through the process - there is much reading to be done and much planning for you to do - but see the full practice directions at:

 

CPR - Rules and Directions - Ministry of Justice

 

May I also suggest that once you initiate your claim that you make the OFT aware; as they are interested in cases being brought against any of their licenced traders.

 

Do look up the Human Rights Act Article 8 for understanding:

 

Human Rights Act 1998 (c. 42)

 

Hope this helps for now Nicky B

 

Best of luck : )

[Nicky Bodmin]

Thank you very much.

[applecart]

No problem Nicky : )

 

Best of luck

[Nicky Bodmin]

Good morning, I have been reading like a woman possessed, can I buy a book with the CPR rules and directions in it because its deffinatly something that I will need time and time again to sort my life out. It would save me having to print it all out that would take a life time. Thanks again for your guidance. People like yourself and other site members have given hope for alot of us that cant afford legal help. Thats priceless thanks again.

[applecart]

There no doubt will be a book somewhere - might be worth checking on Amazon????

 

Don't forget to check and re-check anything information you gain on the forum - to be sure it can be of specific use to your case : )

 

We're all here to empower each other - don't forget, you have been quite useful yourself too : )

 

Take care and all the Best with the reading

 

apple

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Civil Procedure Handbook: 2009/2010, OUP

ISBN13: 9780199573196

ISBN10: 0199573190 Paperback,

[Nicky Bodmin]

Hi, I have been reading since you gave me the links. Im in such a mess now im almost in tears with it. The only fact I am sure of it is and always has been my car,but proving it and how to present it has almost brought me to give up. But I cant. I feel that the law is out for the people who dare to push the boundaries, They seem to succeed.

I have lost myself in trying to find the ref that covers the breach, of 5 BOS If the car doesn't belong to the borrower the all agreements from there on in are powerless. How do I show this.

My main concern now is all the time spent on this I am not earning a living there fore my mortgage is not being paid, without the car I cant work. What the hell do I do. I have found stuff that says I do have a case on both the grantor and grantee.

[Nicky Bodmin]

Nicky Bodmin said:

Hi can you please tell me if I can use this to on LBL because they took my car and sold it when they had been told it was not the grantors car. I dont have the V5 because it was taken and name changed for the application of the LBL. I have been to the police and they say its civil. How can it be when they took my car.

I need to do a letter before action on thieft charges to LBL and fraudulant signatures on application for loan. Is there any of these letters on the forum

Hi just looked at the theft act can you take a look to see if it 1967 act or 1968 se12 many thanks

 

also can anyone tell me what ref the fraudulant sig is ref to and what act

[trooper68]

Hi just looked at the theft act can you take a look to see if it 1967 act or 1968 se12 many thanks

 

 

Hi Nicky

 

I'm going to bump, as you have asked a question I cannot advise on, but i'll keep my eye in.

 

Theft Act 1968 (c. 60) - Statute Law Database

 

i've looked at section 12, i thought section 8 might be, as explained from your posts.

 

trooper68

[trooper68]

also can anyone tell me what ref the fraudulant sig is ref to and what act

 

 

*bump*

[Nicky Bodmin]

Thanks Trooper I put the act ref into search bar and it came up with the ref I gave you. Did you read my final draft cause im iching to send it to LBL and OFT many thanks again

[Nicky Bodmin]

this is rollocks

 

while log book had your car

 

i take it you made a statement to the police that this chap committed fraud and the police gave you a crime ref number, you then rammed that in lbl face

 

confirm please

Hi I have just sent the letter before action, I have tried to PM but your message box is full it is interesting reading. Once they have had time to chock on it I will put it on the forum for ref to others.

Ref

 

To Whom it may concern,

 

I am writing to inform you that this is my letter before action. Your Bailiffs attended my property the end of July this year and removed my car with a level of violence to gain entry. They didn’t produce any [paperwork to say who they were. has been my car for many years. I didn’t sell it or hand over ownership at any point. This can be proved without question. The car had been off the road for a year with no engine, sat outside my house.

You are in breach of the Bill of Sale rules sec 5 and also in breach of the debt enforcement guide.

On these grounds alone I can challenge the existence of the Bill of Sale leaving the Credit Agreement still in place. I am not the said person who is named on the Bill of Sale and not the said person who is named on the Credit Agreement.

Or an application can be made with all the above, with the grounds of the signatures used to execute the Credit agreement and the Bill of Sale are not with supporting evidence.

So your company will be looking at theft and fraud charges to obtain my vehicle.

You have breached my Human Rights Article 8.

As a result of your illegal violent removal of my car, this has caused me great hardship as a direct result of your actions. I can only assume that someone from your company took the details of the car and put your own Credit Agreement and Bill of Sale on it because the person that is alleged to have done the application is not the person who did those signatures, this is proved with the signatures on his passport and driving licence of and it will stand up to scrutiny by any hand writing expert.

. I will be applying for the financial loss that has come as a result of the theft and compensation of the breached rules to be assessed by the courts. I will be making sure by order of the court that the theft and fraud charges are acted upon.

There will be no more correspondence from myself. The next will be from the courts. A copy of this letter will be forwarded to The Office of Fair Trading

 

These are the grounds used to support my plea of which you are in breach of

 

Taking motor vehicle or other conveyance without authority. Theft Act 1968 c 60 sec 12

 

— (1) Subject to subsections (5) and (6) below, a person shall be guilty of an offence if, without having the consent of the owner or other lawful authority, he takes any conveyance for his own or another’s use or, knowing that any conveyance has been taken without such authority, drives it or allows himself to be carried in or on it.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall [F4 be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or to both.]

 

Bills of Sale Act (1878 Amendment Act 1882

 

1882 CHAPTER 43 45_and_46_Vict

 

An Act to amend the Bills of Sale Act 1878.

[18th August 1882]

Annotations:

 

Modifications)

 

C1Act excluded by Bills of Sale Act 1890 (c. 53), Agricultural Credits Act 1928 (c. 43), ss. 8(1), 14(1), Agricultural Marketing Act 1958 (c. 47), s. 15(5) and S.I.1972/1268

 

The schedule of the bill of sale

 

The Act contains two important provisions that void the Bill of Sale “accept of the Grantor in respect of

2 Personal chattels specifically described therein of which the Grantor was not the TRUE OWNER at the date of the DEED

 

 

SEC. 5.

Bill of sale not to affect after acquired property

Sec 5 “Save as herein-after mentioned” (ie.in sec6) “ a bill of sale shall be void, except as against the grantor, in respect of any personal chattels specifically described in the schedule thereto, of which the Grantor was not the TRUE OWNER at the time of the execution of the bill of sale”

This enactment is not restricted to after-acquired property; it extends to a case where the grantor has already assigned away the property absolutely. (Tack v Southern Counties Deposit Bank 1889,42 Ch D. 471), or where an undivided moiety of the goods belongs to another (Ex parte Barnet, In re Tamplin, 1890 62 L. T. 264). But the words “true owner” are satisfied by either legal or equitable ownership, eg e.g. by the equity of redemption upon a prior bill of sale by 7 way of security ( Thomas v Searls[18910], 2 Q. B 40,or an equitable interest under a settlement (Ex parte Pratt, In re Feild,1890.63L. T.289), or the legal ownership of a trustee (Ex parte Williams, In re Sarl [1892],2 Q. B. 591

·The execution of the Bill of sale does not comply with the requirement of the Act.

·Wrongful registration of a Bill of Sale. Proof of malice and want of reasonable and probable cause

·The true owner of the chattels is not a named party to the BOS and Credit Agreement

·The execution of the Bill of Sale has been attested by a party to the Bill. The rep who profits from the agreement.

·The signature on the Bill of Sale is not the signature of the grantor, this is a fraudulent activity that was used to execute the said Bill and is also evident on the Credit agreement. Evidence is shown on copy of my driving License and passport in support of my plee.

 

You are also in breach of the following below

Debt collection guidance

1 INTRODUCTI0N

1.1 The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) has a duty under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

to ensure that licences are only given to and retained by those who are fit to hold

them. The Act provides that the OFT take into account any circumstances which

appear to be relevant and in particular any evidence that an applicant, licensee, or

their employees, agents or business associates, past or present, have:

 

• committed offences involving fraud, or other dishonesty or violence

• failed to comply with the requirements of credit or other consumer

Legislation

 

• engaged in business practices appearing to us to be deceitful, oppressive or

otherwise unfair or improper (whether unlawful or not).

 

2 Debt collection guidance July 2003 (updated December 2006)

 

2 UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES

 

Communication

2.2 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

b. leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it

creates a false or misleading impression or exploits debtors'

lack of knowledge

 

False representation of authority and/or legal position

 

2.3 Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their authority

and/or the correct legal position.

 

2.4 Examples of unfair practices are as follows

f. pursuing third parties for payment when they are not liable

Physical/psychological harassment

 

2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. contacting debtors at unreason, able times and at unreasonable intervals

or to increase payments when they are unable to do so

 

f pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments

 

h. ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are

disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

j. acting in a way likely to be publicly embarrassing to the debtor either

deliberately or through lack of care, for example, by not putting

correspondence in a sealed envelope and putting it through a letterbox,

thereby running the risk that it could be read by third parties.

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

b. disclosing debt details to an individual when it is uncertain that they are

the debtor in question, for example, disclosing details to 'the occupier' of

an address.

f. passing on debtor details to debt management companies without the

debtors' informed prior consent

g. failing to refer on to the creditor reasonable offers to pay by instalments

i. failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is

queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued

k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or

disputed debt.

Charging for debt collection

2.9 Charges should not be levied unfairly.

2.2 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. not giving an indication in credit agreements of the amount of any

charges payable on default

e. failing to provide debtors or creditors with information on status

of debts, for example, not providing requested balance statements when

reasonably requested

 

Debt collection visits

2.11 Those visiting debtors must not act in an unclear or threatening manner.

 

2.12 Examples of unfair practices are:

b. visiting a debtor when it is known they are vulnerable, for example, when

a doctor's certificate has been provided stating that the debtor is ill

c. continuing with a visit when it becomes apparent that the debtor is

distressed or otherwise vulnerable, for example, it becomes apparent that

the debtor has mental health problems

d. entering a property uninvited

e. not leaving a property when asked to

 

f. visiting or threatening to visit debtors without prior agreement when the

debt is deadlocked or disputed1

 

g. not giving adequate notice of the time and date of a visit2

h visiting debtors, unless requested, at inappropriate locations such as work

or hospital.

 

Debt Collection visits

 

 

Paragraphs 2.12f and 2.12 g of the Debt collection guidance

 

Both these paragraphs relate to debt collection visits.

We have clarified the context for these provisions and defined the terms we use as

follows:

Our aim is to ensure that visits are not used in a threatening way. We have seen

examples of letters and other communications where debt collectors refer to visits in vague

and/or threatening ways and cases where visits are not appropriate.

 

2.12f: Visiting or threatening to visit debtors without prior agreement when the

debt is deadlocked or disputed.

 

 

By 'deadlocked' we mean where a debtor (or debtor’s adviser) agrees there is a debt and

has offered a repayment programme which has not been agreed by the creditor or debt

collector. We are not saying that any offer must be accepted but we have seen cases

where offers are disregarded and a debtor is told that 'we are sending field agents'. Many

debtors are unlikely to understand this term and are likely to view the visit as a threat

designed to make them offer more money when they can pay no more. Some letters appear

to be designed to give this impression.

 

By 'disputed' we mean genuinely disputed. We are not seeking to protect 'won’t pays' but

those who are being pursued for a debt they do not owe or genuinely believe they do not

owe. Debt collectors who can show that the debt is due and that any dispute has been

looked into and the debt confirmed will not be in breach of this provision.

 

2.12g: Not giving adequate notice of the time and date of a visit

 

There will be no more correspondence from myself. The next will be from the courts. A copy of this letter will be forwarded to The Office of Fair Trading.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Nicky Bodmin
removed names of people sorry n

[Nicky Bodmin]

this is rollocks

 

while log book had your car

 

i take it you made a statement to the police that this chap committed fraud and the police gave you a crime ref number, you then rammed that in lbl face

 

confirm please

Hi I have just sent the letter before action, I have tried to PM but your message box is full it is interesting reading. Once they have had time to chock on it I will put it on the forum for ref to others.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Nicky Bodmin
sorry sent post twice

[trooper68]

Hi I have just sent the letter before action, I have tried to PM but your message box is full it is interesting reading. Once they have had time to chock on it I will put it on the forum for ref to others.

 

 

Hi Nicky

 

Has the Police got back to you? I would request an update from the Police. they may tell you who is handling the case.

 

Hope you fell better soon

 

Trooper68

[Nicky Bodmin]

I cant be bothered with the police because it was the same officer that attended when they took the car. They are not interested.

I will go to the police once I have got the BOS null on void then .... it up her nose and press charges again with evidence they cant ignore HIGH COURT DOCUMENT OF AVOIDANCE lol like my channel of thought. LBL seem to be supported by the OLD BILL W..kers sorry.

But with judgment supporting theft and fraud grounds of my application they would not dare ignore it. Just one charge of theft or fraud will rattle their bones what do you think.

You got to no how to play the system with this lot.

But I still advice everyone to go to old bill in the first place.It will be put as a civil case.

But once you got BOS void then its a different story Be patient. It will be worth it

Sorry I must explain I have reported the crime and got a crime number. When I say I cant be bothered to go back to get update I feel untill I have the High Court ruling they just not interested, so I will wait till then

Edited October 29, 2009 by Nicky Bodmin
added to post

[trooper68]

I cant be bothered with the police because it was the same officer that attended when they took the car. They are not interested.

I will go to the police once I have got the BOS null on void then .... it up her nose and press charges again with evidence they cant ignore HIGH COURT DOCUMENT OF AVOIDANCE lol like my channel of thought. LBL seem to be supported by the OLD BILL W..kers sorry.

But with judgment supporting theft and fraud grounds of my application they would not dare ignore it. Just one charge of theft or fraud will rattle their bones what do you think.

You got to no how to play the system with this lot.

But I still advice everyone to go to old bill in the first place.It will be put as a civil case.

But once you got BOS void then its a different story Be patient. It will be worth it

Sorry I must explain I have reported the crime and got a crime number. When I say I cant be bothered to go back to get update I feel untill I have the High Court ruling they just not interested, so I will wait till then

 

 

Hi Nicky

 

I understand, more amunition etc. The Police have a Duty to investigate, you see the officer may state civil case, however you have someone take a document, obtain monies and then you cer is taken from you. If it was me I would be requesting a update from the officer, then if that failed make an official complaint.

 

trooper68

[Nicky Bodmin]

Hi Nicky

 

I understand, more amunition etc. The Police have a Duty to investigate, you see the officer may state civil case, however you have someone take a document, obtain monies and then you cer is taken from you. If it was me I would be requesting a update from the officer, then if that failed make an official complaint.

 

trooper68

I do see where you are coming from.

I have been busy sending links to site team to try and organise the LBL stuff. Have you read my Bill Ben post its good

[trooper68]

I do see where you are coming from.

I have been busy sending links to site team to try and organise the LBL stuff. Have you read my Bill Ben post its good

 

 

Hi Nicky

 

Yes i've read it. I have also looked at the legal forum, as with most issues and BoS the CCA1974 is wound in, i'm not sure of the implications of defaults etc etc on the BoS, I know they use the BoS to get around the agreements..I wounder if some cases the Wilson V First County Trust can be used.

 

Anyone?

 

trooper68

[Nicky Bodmin]

Hi, I dont no the case study on that one. Is there any where I can read up on the case studies. The default is not really a big issue its a small part of it. The main one is it is my car not the person on the agreement, also the borrower its not his signature. These are much bigger issues. But I will use all that they are in breach of. Did you like the BILL BEN post. It makes it easy to understand

[trooper68]

Hi, I dont no the case study on that one. Is there any where I can read up on the case studies. The default is not really a big issue its a small part of it. The main one is it is my car not the person on the agreement, also the borrower its not his signature. These are much bigger issues. But I will use all that they are in breach of. Did you like the BILL BEN post. It makes it easy to understand

 

 

Yeah, it made it alot clearer, i've found the case

Wilson v First County Trust

 

from what i can gather, is that the setup payment was wound into the agreement and then the vat was added, this made the agreement unenforcable.

 

I migh not help in your case, but other caggers may find that they have been charged for it and not aware.

 

I don't want to side track you, but, its worth a look at it.

 

trooper68

[Nicky Bodmin]

if it makes case bigger then yes its worth a look how do I find it

[trooper68]

Hi, I dont no the case study on that one. Is there any where I can read up on the case studies. The default is not really a big issue its a small part of it. The main one is it is my car not the person on the agreement, also the borrower its not his signature. These are much bigger issues. But I will use all that they are in breach of. Did you like the BILL BEN post. It makes it easy to understand

 

 

Just had a thought, you may want to check the Credit Ref agencys, these guy usally put defaults on accounts, it may reveal something or run a HPI check on the car....

 

trooper68