Barclays CCA reply - enforceable?

[DoubleU]

I received the reply from BarclayCard when I requested a CCA they should have. Instead, the replied in a letter. No enclosures, except for a copy of their current T&C's, No financial statements, nothing

 

3 questions:

 

1) what should I receive?

2) what if this is incomplete

3) How do I react to Barclaycard

 

How do I react to this please?

Thanks

DoubleU

Barclays reply to CCA ltr blanked out Page 1.pdf

Barclays reply to CCA ltr blanked out Page 2.pdf

Edited February 22, 2010 by DoubleU

[Windywoo]

They said they are sending the agreement under seperate cover, wait and see what you get before taking it any further.

[DoubleU]

Thanks for that, I am good at being patient! (fells familiar like procastrination)

 

What I was hoping for was a reaction to the way in whichj they worded the letter. On page 1 they agree they MUST send me a properly executed CA, On Page 2 the say they have no obligation to provide documentation, then a paragraph further they say they are fully satisfied that the sum outstanding remains legally dua and payable and in the last paragraph they say that this completes their obligation under section 78 of the CCA 1974. Is all this just rubbish apart from the information where they say it will be sent under separate cover?

DoubleU

[paul01609]

they said same thing to me all i got was t&c and then a letter with my credit limit and amount owing and a stament with another £12 added on

[Hardupnotfedup]

they said same thing to me all i got was t&c and then a letter with my credit limit and amount owing and a stament with another £12 added on

 

If the account is in dispute then they cannot add interest or charges, after receiving no CCA you should have put the account into dispute by recorded delivery

[DoubleU]

I need to clarify this.

1) When you send a request for CCA - does this put the debt 'in dispute'??

I am getting contradicting messages where this point is concerned.

I was told that a Request for CCA does not put the debt in dispute, it is merely what it says: It is a request to send you a true and complete copy of the original credit agreement.

If they do, it needs to be checked against the criteria -

if its OK you have to pay.

If it is not OK, you may be able to claim that it is unenforceable, which is OK.

If they don't send it, you wait and tell them to go away until they either take you to court or or they forget about it.

So, how do you 'put an account in dispute?

When an account is 'in dispute', what is acceptable and what is not in terms of what DCA's can or cannot do under the law?

I am not doubting that all the advice is given in good faith, but I have also learned over the years that when people get emotionally involved, the clear cold objective judgement on what the situation is, sometimes goes out of the window. It is the clear, cold objective judgements and advice that so many people that find this site so desperately need. Don't get me wrong, I couldn't do without this site. But it is sometimes difficult to accumulate all the bits and pieces that you need in order to bring an already difficult situation to a good and positive conclusion. Whether that ends up in paying your debt or not is of no consequence.

So, you seem to know hardupbutnotfedup, please tell me.

thanks

 

DoubleU

[paul01609]

If the account is in dispute then they cannot add interest or charges, after receiving no CCA you should have put the account into dispute by recorded delivery

they added on after i sent for the cca request was in with the t&c,befor i could despute it good old sharklays

[paul01609]

I need to clarify this.

1) When you send a request for CCA - does this put the debt 'in dispute'??

I am getting contradicting messages where this point is concerned.

I was told that a Request for CCA does not put the debt in dispute, it is merely what it says: It is a request to send you a true and complete copy of the original credit agreement.

If they do, it needs to be checked against the criteria -

if its OK you have to pay.

If it is not OK, you may be able to claim that it is unenforceable, which is OK.

If they don't send it, you wait and tell them to go away until they either take you to court or or they forget about it.

So, how do you 'put an account in dispute?

When an account is 'in dispute', what is acceptable and what is not in terms of what DCA's can or cannot do under the law?

I am not doubting that all the advice is given in good faith, but I have also learned over the years that when people get emotionally involved, the clear cold objective judgement on what the situation is, sometimes goes out of the window. It is the clear, cold objective judgements and advice that so many people that find this site so desperately need. Don't get me wrong, I couldn't do without this site. But it is sometimes difficult to accumulate all the bits and pieces that you need in order to bring an already difficult situation to a good and positive conclusion. Whether that ends up in paying your debt or not is of no consequence.

So, you seem to know hardupbutnotfedup, please tell me.

thanks

 

DoubleU

send for a cca give them 12+2 days to reply if no reply or they just send t&c they send them the account in dispute letter reecorded delivery

[DoubleU]

Hi Paul01609,

 

So when Barclays tell me they will sent the CCA (outside the 12 + 2 days statutory time) I should immediately put the debt in dispute?

Can you please help me with a text on this?

 

Thanks

 

DoubleU

[themagician]

I need to clarify this.

1) When you send a request for CCA - does this put the debt 'in dispute'??

I am getting contradicting messages where this point is concerned.

I was told that a Request for CCA does not put the debt in dispute, it is merely what it says: It is a request to send you a true and complete copy of the original credit agreement.

If they do, it needs to be checked against the criteria -

if its OK you have to pay.

If it is not OK, you may be able to claim that it is unenforceable, which is OK.

If they don't send it, you wait and tell them to go away until they either take you to court or or they forget about it.

So, how do you 'put an account in dispute?

When an account is 'in dispute', what is acceptable and what is not in terms of what DCA's can or cannot do under the law?

I am not doubting that all the advice is given in good faith, but I have also learned over the years that when people get emotionally involved, the clear cold objective judgement on what the situation is, sometimes goes out of the window. It is the clear, cold objective judgements and advice that so many people that find this site so desperately need. Don't get me wrong, I couldn't do without this site. But it is sometimes difficult to accumulate all the bits and pieces that you need in order to bring an already difficult situation to a good and positive conclusion. Whether that ends up in paying your debt or not is of no consequence.

So, you seem to know hardupbutnotfedup, please tell me.

thanks

 

DoubleU

a cca request does not put the acc in despute!its a request for certain documentation only!

when not supplied within the timeframe of 12+2 days after receipt you may then put the acc in despute but you must notify the dca confirming this " thus the acc in despute letter in template library ".

as far as what a dca's can do in law?. in or outside of the law dca,s seem to do or say whatever they want!, caggers are here to help people decide on whatever action taken by dca's is the best way to fight back!,

your positive conclusion aint gonna happen very quickly,dca's dont play that way! anything else you not clear on?.

[DoubleU]

Thank you for that Magician, I have found the acc in dispute ltr and have sent it off to them. Now see what happens. This forum is keeping me alive. Since Joining in November last year, I have, with the forums help avoided being reposessed, I have CCA'd 6 creditors.

The score so far:

1 came with a good CCA - I will have to pay, which is fine.

1 came up with an application form complete with an application number

1 replied that it had noting to do with them - CCA'd the lender

1 wrote and said it would follow up later

1 will be disputed under missold PPI

1 did not answer at all

 

4 are getting account in dispute letters, and I suppose from there we will be going on the merry go round.

1 will be getting the Account in dispute PPI letter

1 still waiting for the statutory time to pass

Quite a difference from answering the phone and being threatened and abused, walking around the house in a panic. I am by no means in control (yet) but at least I am doing something about my situation, which is priceless. For those that are interested: I paid for many years and still today have the intention to fulfill my legal duties where this is concerned. I started to CCA because my debt management company refused to return all my documents, and I was paying and reacting purely on the basis of threatening calls without knowing exactly what I was being threatened about or for. Now I know and now, with the help of my priceless circle of friends (Caggers) I can begin to bring some order into my life and have some sort of control. I have also started a Debt Management Company thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/248041-debt-management-companies-new-post.html

DoubleU

[DoubleU]

Follow - up

Good morning peeps, justb a little follow-up on the current situation.

As mentioned above 1 came with an application form, in fact it was HFC Bank. I sent them the letter telling them that they did not comply, because it was an application form and not a credit agreement.

This morning, I received a reply from them arguing that they have complied (letter attached) I now need some comprehensive advice from you good people. The application form (attached) is called an application form and even has an application number on there. So, the crux of the matter is: Can an application form be the same as an agreement, if there is a 'box' on the application form headed with the words 'Agreement' in which I have signed (because there was no other place to sign the application)? My argument is, generally application forms are signed. The only place to sign the application form is in the agreement box on the same form. If this form is unenforceable, can those that are in the know please specify the reasons why it is unenforceable. Please help me, without your help I feel I will have to resume paying, because I don't know how to argue HFC's reply.

Thanks

DoubleU

Blanked HFC ltr 17 March disputing unenforcability.doc

Blanked out HFC Application.pdf

[cerberusalert]

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

[DoubleU]

I am getting deeper and deeper in debt . . . . . to you CerberusAlert!

So, I take it from your reply that an application form cannot be an agreement at the same time (makes sense) and that you suggest I should sent the letter you show above. My problem is that I have already sent this letter, and they dispute it. To clarify, First I sent the CCA request. a full 3 weeks later I sent the 'account in dispute letter' which is the same as your sample above. Can you please explain to me why exactly this agreement is not enforcable? Thanks in advance,

 

DoubleU

[cerberusalert]

This thread should explain; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html but in a nutshell it doesn't contain the prescribed terms such as %APR, credit limit, repayment terms etc.