Council not accepting liability for damage

[nigrob]

Hi all , i am currently in dispute with my local council , atached is a copy of the first letter i sent them outlining the problem .

They have now said they are not liable but they seem not to be looking at liability from before the leak was reported .

The neighbour has given me a letter saying thet they had asked the Inspector about damp in the area concerned , also the problem should have been noticed when a new kitchen was fitted as the Inspector who came out said that the leak was around 18 months old.

I am trying to get compensation for all the damage and everything else.

 

Please advise ..

 

I have now sent this onto the Ombudsman to look into it..

 

Thanks

Mr forums.doc

[Mr Government]

The ombudsman will only deal will the case of maladministration and not the actual event.

 

You should have followed the council's 3 stage complaints system before going to the omdudsman.

You should still follow the complaints proceedure, write your formal complaint about the event and the lack of response from the council. Make sure you write in your letter that your are making a formal complaint against the housing department (or whichever dept you have previously dealt with). And also state that you expect the council to follow its own complaints proceedure.

 

The omdudsman may take no action until you have down the above.

[nigrob]

HI , do i need to do this as the Insurers have now refused the claim on two occasions?

I have not been informed of the complaint procedure from the council so i am unaware of it.

[Mr Government]

HI , do i need to do this as the Insurers have now refused the claim on two occasions?

I have not been informed of the complaint procedure from the council so i am unaware of it.

 

 

Insurance refused? your own insurance or council?

 

regardless of any insurance, if you are 100% certain that your property is being damaged by the house next door then write to the council and complain. in your letter ask for a copy of the councils complaints proceedure. Also send a copy of your original letter along with your new complaint. State very clearly that you hold the council responsible for the damage to your property. keep copies of all your letters before you send them.

 

If the house next door was privately owned the situation woule be no different except that you would be writing to their insurance company.

[nigrob]

Hi, it is the councils insurance that have refused the claim..

 

Thanks

[Mr Government]

first of all insurance companies are all they same, they dont want to pay out. I myself have had 2 insurance companies refuse claims, I have gone to court both times and had a full payout. So dont accept their refusal as an end of the matter.

 

If the council insurance have refused your claim then they must have given you a reason why they feel that they are not responsible for the damage, can you please give me more information about their refusal.

 

Also have you had the leak confirmed by an independant surveyor?

[nigrob]

Hi , they refused the claim as they are saying that they repaired the leaking stoptap within an acceptable timescale , they were informed of the problem by my neighbour at the end of November and the repair was finally completed in January 2010 , they also say that this was longer than usual due to bad weather and problems with finding the stop taps in the street to turn the supply off to the house concerned.

Also , i have a written statement from my neighbour saying that they had asked the Council Inspector earlier in 2009 about damp in the wall in their house and the inspector just blamed rainwater for the cause without investigating further.

The insurance company seem only to be looking at the events after the problem was reported and not the events before this date .

I feel that due to the length of time the leak was present the council should have noticed it before as a new kitchen was fitted in 2009 , this is just before we started to get damp in our walls.

[Mr Government]

Wow, I am amazed that the council are saying that because they fixed the leak in a timely manner they are now absolved of the problem.

 

I presume that now the leak has been fixed you are no longer having any new damp problems? Which is good for your case as it supports your claim that all your damage was caused by their leak.

 

Under the freemdom of information act you should write to the council and ask for a copy of the original inspectors report from December 1st.

 

Write another letter to the council making it very clear that you find them liable for all the damage to your property because the leak came from one of their properties which they then duly fixed, also state that by fixing the leak they have admitted liability for the leak, and are now responsible for the damage to your property. detail the timeline of events. Make it very clear in your letter that you are not going to go away and will take civil action.

 

Due you have home insurance? and as part of that policy did you take out the additional legal cover? if so call your insurance company and talk with an adviser, they should be able to give you good advice, and may even take the case on for you.

 

If all else fails, I would take the council to small claims court. It only costs about £250. and you can represent yourself. its not that scary and the judge usually takes into account that you do not know what your doing, and will help you.

 

As far as i am concerned this is a clear cut case. A council owned property caused damage to your property. They are liable for your damage. Of course you will struggle with all your costs, as you cannot prove that all the work you undertook was absolutely necessary, but you should still win.

[Mr Government]

I forgot to also say that should you in the future have any similar problems, never fix it yourself. You should always get the council to come and inspect your home, and allow them to arrange the works. Your biggest problem is that you personally undertook all the repairs and have not allowed the council to assess the damage.

[Aviva]

The way to go is the small claims court. Insurance depts in Councils tend not to allow any insurance matters go through the Council's complaints system. The matter should be dealt with by the Insurance team and the Council's insurers. Don't think the Ombudsman will be able to help either as they don't take on cases which could be dealt with by a court.

[nigrob]

HI , yes we have insurance but it is only buildings cover.

If i go through them they say that they will be able to cover the costs for repair & redecoration which i am unsure if this will cover the costs for the damage caused to our carpets. We have already put new laminate flooring down and i feel that if the damp hadnt ruined the room carpet then i would not have had to put new flooring down.

If my insurance would cover me for the following then i will use them:

 

Damage to walls , plastering , wallpaper , paint , carpet .

Also when i was checking my own property i had to remove the bath & shower panels which ended up damaged and unable to refit along with all the bathroom floor tiles and about one square meter of wall tiles.

The cost to fix the bathroom will be quite high and i am unsure that my insurance will cover this cost.

If you can advise me further i would be greatful.

[Aviva]

Mr Government didn't seem to be suggesting that you claim for the damage under your insurance - he was asking if you have legal cover as part of your insurance. This is where you are covered for certain legal disputes such as where your property has been damaged and no one has admitted liability (as is the case here). They are usually able to give legal advice and cover some or all of your legal expenses.

 

If you have this then you could get help taking the Council to court over this.

 

Claiming under your own insurance may not be a good idea as you don't seem to be covered for replacing everything that needs to be replaced and you need to take into account any excess that needs to be paid and that if they pay out this usually affects your future premiums

[nigrob]

Hi Mr Government , we have not carried out the repairs as yet , all we hsve done is put a new laminate floor down to make it OK to live in as we have young children, the damp is still showing in the walls etc.

The bathroom has been left as it is apart from putting some board down to cover the floorboards.

We only started redecorating as when we asked the tennant next door they said that they had no pipes around where the problem is , this suggested that it was our property causing the damp , i inspected the outside brickwork and re pointed about 10 bricks to make sure it was water tight, then i borrowed a dehumidifier to dry the wall which seemed sucessful so we decorated , then we noticed the damp coming back .

If the tennant had said they had pipes which were covered by kitchen units that had been sealed to the floor by the council when they fitted the new kitchen units i would have asked them then to get the council to check them.

[Mr Government]

"Hi , they refused the claim as they are saying that they repaired the leaking stoptap within an acceptable timescale , they were informed of the problem by my neighbour at the end of November and the repair was finally completed in January 2010 "

 

You quote above that they refused the claim because they fixed the leak in good time. Does this mean that they have denied that the damage caused to your property was from the leak from their house?

 

You should still call your insurance company for advice! even if you dont have legal protection they may still be able to give you some advice.

 

You still need to write a letter to the council headed "formal complaint" state that your property has suffered damage as a result from a leaking pipe from their property, and that regardless of how quickly the repairs were undertaken they are still responsible for all damages. State that you demand an inspection of your property and an investigation into why you have been brushed off. Also ask for a report on the exact details of the leak and repairs.

 

do not do any works to your house.

 

Get someone from the Friday ad (builder) to give you an estimate for the repairs, you will need more than 1.

 

keep copies of all your letters to the council. Start a filing system.

 

Should the council still refuse action, then go to small claims court.

[Mr Government]

I also forgot to mention that you should take lots of photographs of all the damaged areas, also if an area gets worse take more photo too keep a record of the change.

[nigrob]

OK thanks

[Surfer01]

Can we assume that your property is private which is why you have building insurance but that the property next door is owned by a housing association? If not is it council owned as there is a big difference between the two.

Not sure if Freedom of Information will help because if it is a housing association there is a possibility that it is not under government control so a request under the Freedom of Info Act will be irrlevant.

However if you can persuade the tenant to do a Subject access report and pay for it on their behalf and ask them to remove any confidential info prior to handing it over may help as all you would be interested in is info on the leak.

[nigrob]

HI , it looks like i will be going to court over this as the Ombudsman has said that they are unable to help as they cannot put blame on one side or the other.

Do i still request the information from the council about the leak ?

Am i able to request information for repairs that have been carried out over the past two - three years as the neighbour said that the stop tapped was repaired about two years ago?

Is it worth just sending the complaint letter holding the council responsible before court action?

Please advise..

 

Thanks

[Mr Government]

Hi,

 

I am getting a little bit confused witht the timeline of events can you please give us a timeline from when the leak was identified to when it was fixed and also when you became aware of the problem and when you first contacted the council.

[nigrob]

HI , the leak was identified on the 1st December 2009 , it was finally fixed on 20th January.

We could not report the problem to the council as we are not tenants , this had to be done by the neighbour .

The neighbour had asked the council about damp in the wall previously but no investigation had been carried out.

We became aware of damp in our home around August 2009 , we asked the neighbour if they had any water pipes in the area where we were getting the damp but they said they had none, this led me to believe that the problem was with my property .

After checking all the pipework in my property and the brickwork etc. i then asked to check the neighbours house which was when we saw the problem.

[Mr Government]

Hi,

 

Please write to the council and state that you hold them liable for the water damage to your property and include the reasons why

 

1) i have a written statement from my neighbour saying that they had asked the Council Inspector earlier in 2009 about damp in the wall in their house and the inspector just blamed rainwater for the cause without investigating further. And that the council have failed to adequately investigate the original complaint from the tenant.

 

2) The leak was fianlly identified on 1st December 2009 but not fixed until 20th January.

 

3) A leaking Stop tap was identified by council employee

 

4) The council fixed the leaking stop tap and thereby taking responsibility for the stop tap

 

5) Water from the leaking stop tap caused damage to your property over a long period of time

 

6) As the property belongs to the council they are responsible for its maintenance

 

7) As the council are responsible for the property you hold them liable for your damages which have occured as a direct result of leaking water from their property.

 

Also request information under the freedom of information action for any reports relating to the stop tap at the property and maintenance to fix the stop tap.

 

Get yourself an quotation for the repairs to your property and send this along with your letter stating that you will pursue damages.

 

photocopy copy everything. And if possible deliver letter by hand, and write on the letter and envelope "delivered by hand" if not use recorded delivery its about £1.80

[nigrob]

Hi Mr Government , thanks for the advice i will update you as we progress .

[nigrob]

Hi MR Government , i contacted my insurance company and they have agreed to pay the cost for repairing the damage to the wall but they are unable to pay for the damage to the rest of the contents that have been damaged as i only have Buildings insurance.

They have said though that they will see if i can get this as an uninsured loss but i dont know what that means.