Need help, roxburghe chasing debt which doesnt exist

[tomcat14]

Hi all,

I have read number of posts regarding roxburghe and have followed few advices, but there is one difference in my situation which i havent found a post for. sorry for the inconvenience. here is the story:

First letter I received from them dates 08 december 2009 which was a shock to me. it says regarding a debt with Hutchison 3G UK Ltd (£441.24) which has been passed to roxburghe. I immediately called them and they told me over the phone that the debt was with 3G which dates back to 2004 and they gave me the phone number for the mobile that i allegedly had. they said i took out the contract on 01/03/2004 and last payment made was on 03/06/2004.

The difference in my situation is that I have no recollection of having that contract with 3G and that phone number. I am with 3G now and have been with them for the past 5,6 years. The first phone I got was with 3G and have been with them ever since. I pay on time everytime through DD and renew with them every year. I told roxburghe all this over the phone, but the person wasnt helpful at all. then i received a more threatening letter which is dated 25 january 2010 which is really worrying.

I tried to call 3G to get more info, but they told me they have no info on this. Then I found this website which has been a great help. seeing advices on few of the posts, I checked my credit history with Experian which doesnt have anything regarding this. I have prepared a no acknowledgement letter which i am posting tomorrow.

What really worries me is the amount of personal data that roxburghe have of me (even my DOB and address!!). I am worried about ID theft and wondering what can i do to check this.

if any1 knows of a post similar to my situation, please tell me about the post. any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Knowing how some of these people trace and operate I don't find anything astonishing about them any more ...

 

Curiously I also have Hutchinson (it's what I am viewing this forum on now via mobile broadband for example since registering earlier tonight).

 

As to your query, would not it be prudent to suggest that they prove you owe this debt? By sending them a 'prove it letter?' If they cannot prove you owe this debt then they can go away basically. Watchdog covered DCA's pursuing people for non-existent debts with mobile phone companies several times last year and how to deal with them eg the prove it letter. It's Rox ... to prove you owe this debt. Not you disprove it for them.

 

What seems strange about your case is that if you have a debt with 3G is how you could take another account out if you were in debt with them already?

 

Best advice - don't have any phone contact; they won't know any different on the phone, they are just following a script and as far as they are concerned you are the debtor come what may. Only writing.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Cartaphilus

[Guest Cartaphilus]

I can see you must be already sending this letter to them:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading debt collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

So, best advice (others are free to disagree with me) would be to sit back and await their reply. What should happen is, if you are sure you don't owe this debt, is they cannot do a damn thing. But like I said your case is not uncommon. DCAs do this all the time, if your name is close or your address is to the person who DOES owe the money they will pursue you. Particularly now as you've contacted them by phone.

 

Can't help any further but if certain debt is not yours, then really you have nothing to worry about. If it got to court, they wouldn't look very good in front of the judge trying to extract money from a person who doesn't even owe any!

 

Actually, that letter is all you need.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Cartaphilus

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Oh, BTW, the dates you provided means that that debt would nearly be statute barred anyway. Meaning, it could be they've purchased statute barred debts (some DCAs specialise in doing that) but you've contacted them by phone now. But if the debt isn't yours, then nothing to worry over. But, if it WAS yours you've now acknowledge it by contacting them. Others may put me right on that but, like you, it's what I've read and learned about such things.

 

Sorry, I don't have a similar experience to share but was helping with the finite or more details of your question.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

This may help which I just found top of this page:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/245693-3-mobile-hfo-capital.html

 

Incidentally, but that's all their letters are - threats.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Cartaphilus

[Guest Cartaphilus]

If you think you've been a victim of ID theft, I wouldn't bother with the DCA nor the creditor I'd report it to these people:

 

http://www.cifas.org.uk/default.asp?edit_id=561-56

[diddydicky]

Oh, BTW, the dates you provided means that that debt would nearly be statute barred anyway. Meaning, it could be they've purchased statute barred debts (some DCAs specialise in doing that) but you've contacted them by phone now. But if the debt isn't yours, then nothing to worry over. But, if it WAS yours you've now acknowledge it by contacting them. Others may put me right on that but, like you, it's what I've read and learned about such things.

 

Sorry, I don't have a similar experience to share but was helping with the finite or more details of your question.

 

sounds to me like he did the exact opposite of acknowledge the debt- he said he knew nothing about it so thats ok

 

now stay OFF the phone and do everything in writing (but only if necessary)

 

i doubt that there was a june 2004 payment on the debt and they are just saying that because the debt is so close to the march deadline

 

reply to nothing unless it is a letter before action is my advice

 

refuse any phone calls

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Very well. But what I was actually saying was this: The dates provided are almost statute barred. Also, it's my understanding - from reading CAG, MSE - that as they've phoned the company concerned that if you have ANY contact with a creditor/DCA before a statute barred debt is up then you are acknowledging it. IF the debt was theres, that is. That is all I was meaning. They don't seem to be sure they have a debt with them. That is in a scenario IF the debt was theres. Also, if they apparently do have a debt with 3G why, then, are Roxburghe contacting them like this ... You can't open an account with a company you already have a debt with!

 

The rest of it I already suggested to them. Sorry for bothering!

[Guest Cartaphilus]

And no it's not all the same to me, I find that rude TBH!

[diddydicky]

It would help if you used the quote option so that we know whose post you are responding to- if it was mine then no offence was intended.

 

to explain,

 

if a person received, out of the blue a letter alleging a debt is owed- it is not unreasonable for that person to want to know what it is all about- indeed it would be odd indeed if a person who genuinely knew nothing of the matter simply ignored it

 

therefore the mere act of contacting the sender of the letter and entering into a conversation as to what debt they are referring to is not considered to be "acknowlegding the debt"

 

acknowledging the debt is taken to mean that the person acknowledges that he is responsible for the alleged debt.

 

any amount of discussion or written communication as to the origin of the debt will not amount to an admission of it- its just that the recipient is trying to get to the bottom of the matter.

 

 

as to the comment "no it is not all the same to me- in find that to be rude TBH - if it is directed at me - i haven't a clue what you are talking about!!

[tomcat14]

thank you guys for the posts. I have just posted the no acknowledgment letter and yes Cartaphilus, it is exactly the same as the one you have posted, hehe. i actually found it on that 3G, Hutchison thread. I am preparing a prove it letter now, i think its a good idea. Regarding the statute barred issue, i am new to that term and so dont know the full details. i will be checking up on that.

I am not that worried about roxburghe and since I found this website and reading other posts about them, it has alleviated my concerns further. My biggest worry is how they have come up with this debt and my details (id theft). I am also going to ask roxburghe to send me all the details they have on the prove it letter as i wana get to the bottom of this. i am going to wait what their reply is.

[tomcat14]

Hi again,

I have had a really shocking letter from roxburghe this morning. Even after calling them saying it is not my debt and sending a no acknowledgement letter, they have sent me a 72 hour notice. it says they will be taking me to court and any costs will be added to the amount owed. They have not mentioned anything about the phone call or the letter i sent them. Please help......

[diddydicky]

Hi again,

I have had a really shocking letter from roxburghe this morning. Even after calling them saying it is not my debt and sending a no acknowledgement letter, they have sent me a 72 hour notice. it says they will be taking me to court and any costs will be added to the amount owed. They have not mentioned anything about the phone call or the letter i sent them. Please help......

 

it is all bluff and bluster

 

a/ if you know nothing of the debt they would get nowhere in court

 

b/ if it is your debt and you asked them for details to prove it they would get thrown out of court for being vexatious

 

personally i would simply write back thus

 

 

dear sirs

 

thank you for your letter of XXXXXxx

 

i have asked you to clarify/provide proof of this debt and your response is unwarranted and uncalled for and at any subsequent court hearing the court will be shown copies of correspondence

 

i suggest that you answer the valid queeries i have raised

 

In the alternative, then no doubt the old maxim- "see you in court" would be appropriate

 

I look forward to a less threatening and more civil response

 

Y F

[F_DCAs]

Roxburghe's trying to see if you'll bend - hence further threats.

 

Even if it was a debt you knew about, if this shower have their hands on a debt, it'd more than likely be unenforceable anyway.

[DonkeyB]

Don't worry.

 

They truly are idiots, Mr Osner and his lowlives at Roxburghe. Their car parking ticket money-making threatogram operation must be quiet at the moment.

 

It's a standard letter, as you'll see from the other threads. If they try to take you to court on this, they will come a cropper. Did you send your letter recorded? Please DO NOT talk to them on the phone.

 

The ridiculous thing is that I can guarantee this alleged account was sold to HFO Capital, and Roxburghe are collecting on their behalf, not for 3G. If they have led you to believe otherwise, they are misleading you. HFO bought a tranche of 3 accounts in 2007, I think, and they've probably just realised they're all about to become SB, so they've set the dogs loose.

 

One danger is that they may have recorded adverse data on your credit file. Have you moved since 2004 when the alleged contract was taken out? If they have recorded data and there is no debt, you will have recourse for compensation. When the alleged debt was 'sold', you should have been sent a notice of assignment - did this happen? It may have come from 3 or HFO, though in reality both would have come from HFO.

 

A subject access request to 3 will reveal if there is any information on you other than your current account. They are obliged to still hold this information - if they say not, they are either lying or their data storage methods fall foul of the law. Or it's simply not your debt and Roxburghe are breaking every rule in the book by chasing it. If you call 3 for info, tell them it is (allegedly) a charged-off account - ask why they do not have access to the data. Record the call if you can.

 

But wait until you get a response to your letter (send it again recorded if necessary). If they threaten you again, you must complain to the OFT.

 

And please don't worry about these deranged monkeys.

[tomcat14]

thank you guys for your responses. I have prepared a no acknowledgement letter again with the bits you have posted diddy, thanx. I am going to the post office now and i will send it by recorded delivery.

and donkeyB, I have moved from this address after 2004. I went to manchester university to study, but this has always been my home address where my parents live and i came back in september 2009. during uni years I have been in two addresses there. I have been on the electoral roll since september 2008 in this address.

I have never received any letters regarding this in this address or any other addresses. the first letter from roxburghe was the only letter i have received regarding this, which was a real shocker. i also checked my credit with experian, which didnt show anything.

I am going to send a subject access request to 3. i tried to call them, but got nowhere with them.

[DonkeyB]

Good. Beware this lot, especially HFO. They have a habit of conjuring up letters 'previously sent' to cover their arses.

[tomcat14]

hi all,

I have received a letter this morning from a Graham White Solicitors regarding this debt. It says its a letter of action and that their instructions are to obtain payment from me. I am really worried they are going to take this to court now but I am really angry as well roxburghe have not responded at all to the letters I have sent them. on the letter today it says - "by refusing to speak to us we can prove to the court that you are failing in your duty to do so" but i did call roxburghe at the start and then have sent the 2 letters of non acknowledgement to them. not received any responses to that. I dont have a clue of where this debt has come from and roxburghe have not sent me anything to show it.

I did make a mistake at first, I sent the 1st no acknowledgement letter with just a 1st class stamp, but the 2nd one on which i did mention the 1st letter, i sent that by recorded delivery.

What should I do now? shall i send them both letters? what if they ignore those again? Please help.

P.S. the letter is signed by someone called Michael Sobell, I have read some posts which says he is not a genuine solicitor and is connected to roxburghe as well, is it true?

[Everett]

hi all,

I have received a letter this morning from a Graham White Solicitors regarding this debt. It says its a letter of action and that their instructions are to obtain payment from me. I am really worried they are going to take this to court now but I am really angry as well roxburghe have not responded at all to the letters I have sent them. on the letter today it says - "by refusing to speak to us we can prove to the court that you are failing in your duty to do so" but i did call roxburghe at the start and then have sent the 2 letters of non acknowledgement to them. not received any responses to that. I dont have a clue of where this debt has come from and roxburghe have not sent me anything to show it.

I did make a mistake at first, I sent the 1st no acknowledgement letter with just a 1st class stamp, but the 2nd one on which i did mention the 1st letter, i sent that by recorded delivery.

What should I do now? shall i send them both letters? what if they ignore those again? Please help.

P.S. the letter is signed by someone called Michael Sobell, I have read some posts which says he is not a genuine solicitor and is connected to roxburghe as well, is it true?

 

 

Yes Graham White and Michael Sobell all part of Roxburghe.

[The GodMother]

send them a letter advising them the alleged account is indispute and that untill the evidence you have asked for in your previous 2 letters in sent to u then you consider the matter closed.

[diddydicky]

there was never any obligation upon you to respond to their letters in the first place!! so that one won't wash

[tomcat14]

Hi all,

I need urgent help please regarding this. from my previous posts you know the issue here. I am really worried about the letter from the solicitors, so I have prepared 2 letters; one to roxburghe and one to the solicitors. Please read through them and tell me if i have made any mistakes or if i need to add anything. thank you.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

(3rd letter to roxburghe):

 

Roxburghe Debt Collectors

Roxburghe House, PO Box 342

Lavender Park Road

West Byfleet Surrey

KT14 6YX

 

Date: 24 February 2010

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re:

Account Number: Your Ref No:

 

I have received a letter from a Graham White Solicitors dated 18 February 2010, who claim they have been instructed by you to take up this issue. I cannot believe you are pursuing this matter further even after I have called you and written to you two times already (06 February 2010 and 11 February 2010) to point out that I have no knowledge of this debt whatsoever.

 

I have asked you on each of the letters to send me a copy of any documents you hold (evidence) proving this debt is mine but so far you have not sent me anything at all to prove it, nor have you even acknowledged my requests. I do not have any knowledge of the dealing you allege I had with Hutchison 3G UK Ltd back in 2004. I had not received any letters or been contacted in any form, by either Hutchison 3G Uk Ltd or HFO Capital Limited or you; before your letter dated 08 December 2009. I am also very confused by the client you are acting for as in your letters it started with Hutchison 3G UK Ltd, then changed to HFO Capital Limited and now you have passed onto Graham White Solicitors; companies of whom I have no Knowledge of. This issue is being passed on from company to company in a matter of 2 months with my requests being ignored by you.

 

For me to investigate this matter as I have no recollection of the debt you allege I owe, I am requesting you again to send me any documents/evidence regarding this; which I believe I have a right to ask.

 

In the circumstances, your threat of legal action would appear to be a breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on Debt Collection. Should you or Graham White Solicitors bring proceedings, they will be robustly defended, and the Court's attention drawn to the above statutory breaches. Furthermore, I reserve the right to bring the conduct of your client to the Court when the issue of costs is being considered.

I await to have the correct and more professional response from you; otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards and also inform the Office Of Fair Trading of your actions.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Letter to Graham White Solicitor):

 

 

 

Graham White Solicitors

Michael Sobell Solicitor

Manor House

Lavender Park Road

West Byfleet, Surrey

KT14 6ND

 

Date: 24 February 2010

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I refer to your letter of 18 February 2010, the content of which is noted. No debt to your client is acknowledged.

 

I do not have any knowledge of the alleged dealing with Hutchison 3G UK Ltd back in 2004. I had not received any letters or been contacted in any form, by either Hutchison 3G Uk Ltd or HFO Capital Limited or your client until a letter from your client dated 08 December 2009. I am also very confused as to who owns this matter; as in the letters I have received, the clients started with Hutchison 3G UK Ltd, then changed to HFO Capital Limited and now you have written to me with you stating your client as Roxburghe, all of whom I have no Knowledge of. This issue is being passed on from company to company in a matter of 2 months with my requests being ignored by your client.

 

On 06 February 2010 and 11 February 2010, I sent letters requesting your client to provide me with any documents/evidence they have to prove the alleged debt; and they have not sent me any evidence, neither any acknowledgement of my requests. So, this is an ongoing dispute with your client.

In the circumstances, your threat of legal action would appear to be a breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on Debt Collection. Should you or your client bring proceedings, they will be robustly defended, and the Court's attention drawn to the above statutory breaches. Furthermore, I reserve the right to bring the conduct of your client to the Court when the issue of costs is being considered.

 

Yours faithfully

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

[phil_nottingham]

Roxburgh and graham white are one and the same company...

They should be treated with the contempt they equally deserve

Edited February 24, 2010 by phil_nottingham

[diddydicky]

i can smell the fear in your letters, with respect - and so will they.

 

i would respond along more succinct lines

 

Dear Sirs

 

I have no knowledge of the debt to which you refer.

 

You have failed to supply me with any details of the alleged debt

 

if you take this matter to court it will be robustly defended and the court will be made aware of your arrogant and unreasonable behaviour

 

Yours Faithfully

[The GodMother]

send something along the lines of what DD has said.