DVLA clamp my sworn Car on Pvt Land.

[kevincharles]

Hello Folks,

l'll apologise now for my terrible grammar and spelling.

 

Any advice from you guyz would be really apprceiated.

 

In June 2007 my father obtained a Motability car and l am the named driver. l therefore no longer needed to tax my old warn other car and left it parked as usual in our own residents pvt carpark which access is restricted to only residental use.

l filled in the sworn statement form for both consequtive yrs after. l since found out after recieing a fixed £100 penalty from the DVLA some 2 yrs later that they said they never recieived my soworn statements, and that it was my responsiblity to not consider my car sworn until l recieved conformation from them, which l never did. Fare enough l paid the £100 fine..... and for the 3rd time sent off another sworn statement about 8 months ago. Then about 6 months ago l woke up one morning and found my car clamped. The notoce said l was parked intaxed on the public highway. l called the police pund tel number, and the lady there explained that it is now legal for the DVLA to come and clamp vehicles on pvt land, l then explained to her that the notice said my vehicle was parked at my home address on the public highway and this was inncorrect, she then said well they mean its parked with out tax and a sowrn statemant hasnt been made.

l had to pay the £235 clamp fee due to them threatening to tow away my vehicle.

l wrote to the DVLA and explained everything clearly, and they replied by saying whether or not your vehicle had been sworned or not [ which l always maintained to them before] it was parked on the public highway the day the inforcement officer clamped it.

This is ludicrious as the car has not moved from it parked postion for the last 3 yrs. l took photo's also of the car with the clamp on it in our pvt carpark.

l rang the police pound up a few months ago and a very nice lady told me there that if my vehicle was seen on the public highway the clamper would of photographed it as a matter of recourse.

l have asked for this to go to trail to try and explain this crazy situation and hopefully recover some of my loses. There are no pictures provided as evidence by the officer clamper, he just simply states that my vehicle was parked on the public highway.

Any advice you could give would be gratefull accepted, l am so worried about having to go to court next month up in london, and just can't believe the DVLA are purssueing this matter after l have explained everything to them.

l am recieiving income support and am wondering if l am entitled to any legal aid help also.

 

Thank you charles

[kevincharles]

sorry, l wanted to add:

What all seems really dodgy about this is that the enforcement officer hasnt supplied any photographic evidence of my car being on the public highway, as the lady at the pound said is standard procedure for all officers to obtain when available.

[MaxxPower]

l called the police pund tel number, and the lady there explained that it is now legal for the DVLA to come and clamp vehicles on pvt land,

 

I find it very hard to believe that they can do this. If the DVLA can come onto Private land and clamp a car that is declared SORN'd, then what's the point of SORN?

 

Even if the car isn't SORN'd and isn't taxed, surely they'd be trespassing by coming onto Private Land, in which case you could prosecute the DVLA officer for the offence.

[kevincharles]

hi,

She was adament that the law now allowed DVLA clampers to come onto pvt land to clamp un sorn vehicles. She told me the Law had changed.

The point is not so much this for me, but if your right then it changes lots of things, its the fact that the enforcement officer is stating my vehicle was parked on the public highway.

This is not one of those *is this public or pvt land * things. Our Property is very pvt property, and we have actually had a pvt clamping company in force on our land here for over 20 yrs.

The enforcement officer we are told by the Pound lady, should of taken photo's of my car before and after clamping, but, these picts are not supplied as evidence by DVLA for the trail. There is no photo's of my vehicle being parked on the public highway as evidence surely required.

Is this gonna be a case of this Enforcement officer saving face and saying my vehicle was on the public highway merely to save his companys time and money. Thats what really worries me going to court. l read here its good to get witness statements from other residents stating that my vehicle hasnt moved an inch in the last 3 yrs, but l honestly have no idea how to go about writing all that on paper.

And the SORN statements l sent to them over the last 3 yrs, l didnt send by recorded post, omg this is all getting so stressful and l have not broken the law in anyway. its all playing on my mind everyday and the trial isnt till another month yet.

[Conniff]

Just keep it in mind that you don't have to prove you wern't on the road, but he does. He has to prove it not you.

[buzby]

Changes to the Finance Act (of all things, not motoring) mens that (1) You need a SORN (2) The vehicle must be kept off road (in a garage or private driveway), and must not be seen on any road - or captured by ANPR. If caught - and no photos are required, a sworn statement will suffice - the offence is using the vehicle on a road without tax. The fact that private grouind is now fair game to clampers is well known, and only those with their own personal parking (even in a gated estate) need to have the vehicle off the roadway.

 

If there is no current SORN for the vehicle, IRRESPECTIVE of where it is parked, a fine is applied - and many folk forget this.

[Raykay]

To comply with the SORN regulations a vehicle does not necessarily need to be in a garage or private driveway, only that it is not on a road maintained at public expense and there is a current SORN declaration in respect of it.

[buzby]

Check the Finance Act changes referred to previously. Cars in private company car parks have been clamped.

[Raykay]

The Finance Act did not change the regulations for SORN, or the requirement for where the vehicle is used or kept - for SORN the vehicle must not be used or kept on a public road - a road maintained at public expense.

 

What the Act did do was to give powers to allow vehicles that are required to have a valid licence or a current SORN declaration (if not on a public road) and have neither, to be immobilised or removed from anywhere (which includes private company car parks) except:

(a) any place which is within the curtilage of, or in the vicinity of, a dwelling-house, mobile home or houseboat and which is normally enjoyed with it, or

 

(b) any place which is within the curtilage of, or in the vicinity of, a building consisting entirely (apart from common parts) of two or more dwellings and which is normally enjoyed only by the occupiers of one or more of those dwellings.”

 

[kevincharles]

Thanks guys,

 

l think l understood that all well.

The issue is they are my vehicle was seen on a public road, and my arguement they say is irrelevent whether or not l claim my vehicle was sorn or not.

Of course this is complete crap. My vehicle has been parked in a pvt carpart fpr last 3 3yrs not moving an inch.

Do l have to bring to court some kind of evidence proof that our carpark is on pvt land to the court?

Its very worrying a poster saying that the enforcement officer doesnt need to supply photo evidence seeing my vehicle on the public road, especually when the lady from the pound aid its standard procedure for them to take photo evidence. This is all that worries me as l know my vehicle hasnt been near the public highway in yrs.

in the summons for trail they say the case is :

* on the 01/01/09 at ***, kept ona public road, namely ****road, a mechanically propelled vehicle, namely a motor vehicle registration *****, which was unlicensed. Contrary to section 29(1) ans (3) of the Vehicle and Registration Act 1994.

l don't know why l'm worried my vehicle was no were near any public road, l am just worried what l have to do and info or evidence l have to supply to the court, or like another chatter said here in a post, do l not have to worry at all as its upto the DVLA to provide proof. if that is thae case l can't believe how it has come this far, as the enforcements officers evidence is merely a ticket he wrote out and no photos, and actually saying the vehicle was seen at my home address, which is pvt land 100%

[buzby]

As has been noted earlier - Private car parks ARE deemed liable under the quote section (b) provided by Raykay. The only safety is within your own driveway or one shared by a limited number of houses (being treated as private). General parking on a private road and used by anyone on the estate is now fair game, and THIS was the Finance Act change that made you liable.

[Raykay]

The requirement for Licensing of vehicles is s.29 V.E.R.A. 1994.

As long as the vehicle is not on a public road, with a current SORN declaration in respect of it, it is safe and not required to be licensed. Vehicles on private roads, car parks, estates etc. are only fair game if they are unlicensed and without a current SORN declaration.

The Finance Act made no changes to that.

 

 

What the Act changed was that prior to it, unlicensed vehicles could only be immobilised or removed from a public road, the Act extended the power to anywhere, which means that vehicles that are not on a public road that have neither licence or current SORN declaration can now be immobilised or removed as well, except for a) or b)above.

 

 

 

 

As the OP has a summons for keeping an unlicensed vehicle on a public road, it may be worth getting in writing from the local highway authority/council that they are not responsible for the maintenance of the area where the car is parked.

[kevincharles]

thanks Ray,

 

Do you know how one goes about getting a letter from your local council on this matter regarding our pvt carpark which is soley for the use of the residents living in in our block?.

l wouldnt have a clue which department within the council to speak to, and am rather worried that a reply wouldnt be foethcoming before the trial date.

l believe now this clarification is all l would need to throw out the DVLA's case, and hopefully then l would be in a postion to recover my already previously paid fine and clamping release fee's from them.

l'm sorry for repeating myself but it our carpar is so obviously private property and land, we have lived here over 35 yrs, we should know, and the signage is so clear also, stating at the begining of the access road, that the road itself is pvt and the carpark at the end which is a dead end is strickly only for use by residents. This is not a place that is borderline whether or not its pvt or not, which makes it even the more amazing how l can believe the DVLA have declared on the parking enforcement officers note that this is a public highway.

Edited February 7, 2010 by kevincharles
typo

[Raykay]

I would just write to them, try Highways Department, asking if they are responsible for the maintenance of the car park, they should write back 'nothing to do with us' or something similar. The other way is a letter from the land owner or managing agents to say they are responsible for it.

[kevincharles]

Hi Folks, just an update,

 

Finally went to Magistrates court today. Spoke to the Magistrate and gave him drief details, he immediately asked the representative from the DVLA go to to the metting room and discuss the evidence l brought with me today. l showed him a letter and agoogle map kidly supplied by my councils highways dept which clearly showed our carpark was pvt property. he asked me to hold on and said he would go to see if the enforcement officers evidence inclided photographic evidence. He came back a few minsutes later and said he had and showed me. and of course this photographic evidence was exactly the same as my photograph of our prvt carpark marked out by the council hidhways dept. He then said he's go and inform this to the prosecution, 2 mins later l was asked into court where the case was dismissed.

l asked the Magistrate could you pls advise me how l go about getting my £235 claming few back, he replied you will have to pursue the council to get this back. this confused me and l said it was the DVLA and not the council who clamoed me. he stuttered a bit and said, you should write to them and if they refuse to pay it back, contact your MP.

As l walked out, l asked the same question to the DVLA reperesntative, and he said there is a *claming appeals service* and l should write to them.

Please can anyone here word me a brief letter that l should send to the DVLA asking for them to repay this fraudulently obtained money from me. Or is there a template letter here for such an event ?

 

Yours Gratefully Charles.

[MaxxPower]

Make sure you also demand interest on the money they've had. I think the council charge 8% per day for late payments to them, so why not demand the same back? It's only fair after all, they have inconvenienced you and have made interest on your money, they shouldn't come out of this with a profit no matter how small.

[crem]

Make sure you also demand interest on the money they've had. I think the council charge 8% per day for late payments to them,

 

8% per year.

Daily interest @ 8% per annum on £235 would be 5p

[MaxxPower]

Well I had the 8% part right at least

 

Even so, interest should be claimed just for the principal of it.

[kevincharles]

thanks regarding the interest bit, but what l really need is someone to help me word a brief letter back to them asking them for my £235 clamping charge l paid.

l'm not sure l'm even gonna get a confirmation letter from the court this has all been dropped

The way l waffle on here, you can see whatever l write to them they're probably hardly take it seriously.

 

Thanks Charles.

[kevincharles]

Pls could you guyz answer another point also. When l write back to the DVLA asking them for the return of the clamping charge: How many days do l give them to repay that back??? would it be 7, 14 or 28 days ? l have no idea.

[car nut]

Pls could you guyz answer another point also. When l write back to the DVLA asking them for the return of the clamping charge: How many days do l give them to repay that back??? would it be 7, 14 or 28 days ? l have no idea.

 

send the letter recorded[keep a copy] give them 14 days to respond if they fail to reply go to the small claims court

[kevincharles]

Thanks,

l am in recipt of income support, so as l understand l think l can go through the county court procedure without cost.

l really am not sure how to word this letter though. l think by what l've heard here though the DVLA will probably ignore my letter demanding my money back anyway.

Do you guys have any idea of the term l have to use in relation to the court case l went to on thur? Do l tell the DVLA the case was *thrown out* or *dismissed* or l was found * not guilty*

l should of asked the Magistrate all this but they just wanted to rush me out l could tell as soon as possible. I'm still totally unclear whether or not the court actually send me any paperwork now regarding all this matter now being closed.

Once again if anyone could help me with the wordinf for a letter asking them to now send me back my clamping charges, l'd really be grateful.

[buzby]

Pick a number. You need to be 'reasonable', but either way if they do not pay within the deadline you set, it is still you who raises action for recovery, so 28 is the most realistic.

[kevincharles]

Should l title the the letter *LETTER BEFORE ACTION* ? and also warn the DVLA that if they don't pay me back in full within 28 days that l will take then to the County Court ?

[buzby]

(1) Only if you plan to raise a Small Claim action should they not pay up after a defined period (say, 28 days).

(2) No. You'll pursue them through Moneyclaim, not the County Court. This is simply an action for money.