Stupid Welcome Customer

[ozzywizard]

Hi, your agreement is a legal one

 

Agreement itself being a manually written one although very unprofessional is not necessarily illegal

 

Also not neccessarily legal either so your first initial response could in fact be incorrect ?

 

On your own admission you are not sure on the legality of charging interest on the £235 fee . .

[postggj]

wrong again ime afraid

its a legal contract with the rights that go with it

 

its for the protection of the borrower as well as the creditor

 

apr is mistated

they can not send out another ammended agreement without the agreement of the debtor

 

the interest on acceptance fee is wilson v fct

 

only applies if the acceptance fee has been included in the amount of credit

 

the agreement is unenforceable

 

the apr stated is incorect being a prescribed term

the biz on the calculations is no more than creative accounting to extend the loan when the borrower thinks has been compleated

 

seen it to often

 

makes a change for no mortage indemnity fee on a secured loan below 25 k

 

thats another con (creative accounting)

[beyondhope]

 

Could be grounds to get this sorted due to the obvious cock up but like I said, I would wager that the first response would be to recreate the credit agreement and say its an admin error!

 

So that would make it ok to send out any old toilet paper and then say whoopsy we have been spotted lets send out a piece of paper with yet more figures we have made up to correct it bearing no signatures etc ??

 

I cant see how that is possible as they would then have the authority to swap and change agreements whenever they feel like it (like they dont already!)

[Major Player]

beyondhope, absolutely agree, was pointing out what their response is likely to be rather than what they are supposed to do - sure you have seen enough of welcome to know that they don't tend to play by the rules - seen hundreds of cases go this way as they basically stall for so long that people just give up in the end after they keep coming up with ridculous justifications for the fact that a member of their staff has a target to hit and breaks the rules to hit it.

[lawrence147]

Hi Guys

 

Thanks for the update and thank you esp Post for answering the call and telling me what's wrong with the contract.

 

I understand your position Major but there have to be others that have not paid welcome secured loans and eventually get repossesed. The other more respectable (but not much) banks repossessed and they like to be seen as looking out for consumer interests!

 

Now I know what the problem is with our contract, what do I do now?

 

I am going to send out the CCA and SAR letters tomorrow.

 

Lawrence

 

ps. Fantastic job mark!!

[beyondhope]

Well they have tried it with me already and as far as im concerned its toilet paper and will remain so as i will never ever not never sign anything thats related to them ever again so they can send me as many 'reconstructed' agreements as they so wish they still will remain unenforceable and a complete waste of time. If its to be blamed on a member of staff then maybe they should train their staff adequately to realise messing with contracts is not in the long term interest of the company - it could have even saved their bacon as their loans would be more affordable, more people would pay, less people would claim against them and they may have even be saved from going down the pan but hey ho hindsight is a wonderful thing!

[lawrence147]

Also, what about repayments?

 

thanks a lot

 

Lawrence

[postggj]

you need to put the account into dispute

 

misstated apr is a reason

 

like i said

prescribed term

 

game over

[beyondhope]

lawrence once an account is in dispute you arent 'obliged' to offer payment

[pompeyfaith]

Great I now see Lawrence is getting help here.

 

PF

[postggj]

as you see lawernce

 

dont take all the posts as gospel

 

not doubting major player and that he is or says EX WELCOME FINANCE

 

to say the agreement is coscher and enforceable is wrong when it is not

 

 

well good job you have a welcome fighter (smart arse) on your side to correct there errors that they infer:D

[ozzywizard]

Seconded.

[lawrence147]

Fantastic guys.

 

Thanks a lot - this is life changing stuff here

 

ALL HAIL THE WELCOME FIGHTER!!

 

I have already taken this to a solicitor who told me it was fine! so I left it there and was prepared to stick it out. Then we heard about the wind down, speak to you guys and it's awesome.

 

I have a copy of the CCA and SAR going out tomorrow and we'll see what they say.

 

CHEERS AGAIN

 

Lawrence

[mark1arby]

It`s Certainly Been An Interesting Thread So Far Lawrence!!!LOL;)

 

On It`s Way To Being Sorted Now Though M8!!!

 

Regards And Good Luck, MARK:cool:

[Major Player]

Unsure whether being sensitive here but inferences that I'm either inaccurate, wrong or dodgy bit strong when I'm trying to be of assistance.

 

Think differences in legal terms have been my downfall, apologies as not up to speed with forum speak yet.

 

For me an agreement is legal if it can be proven that the recipient had use of the monies, it is enforceable if legal action is possible to retreive said monies should the loan get to a certain level of arrears. Therefore when I say it may not be illegal or it is legal, I am stating that the loan is in existence, in the purest form if you borrow money and agree to pay it back then a contract exists, many contested cases have failed because this has been their only focus - courts (Especially county courts) look at the rudimentary facts and simply decide the loan exists so money is owed.

 

Of course if the loan agreement is fraudulent (As here) unfair etc etc etc as is the case with many a Welcome loan then the loan is unenforceable which means that it should be written off.

 

Was trying to give an insight into the inner workings and the quickest route to a result, the SAR and CCA will help but Welcome are notoriously slow at getting these done of at all, I am simply offerimg an insight that I don't think you will have had before.

 

I should point out that they do have a legal team who deal constantly in defending cases and it may be worth going to them direct - if you private message me then I will give you the names of the best people to go to because to be fair to them they are much more professional than the cowboys that are in the branches.

[stepwayne]

if you're trying to help,from what i've read on this thread it seems to be either bad advice or bad news. you seem to be putting people off doing what this sites all about. you sure you're not trying the bully boy tactics that welcome have used for years. scare people into thinking what they believe is right to be wrong. i apologise if i've read into you wrong, but you seem to have a very unhealthy interest in peoples threads, especially those at the start.

glad theres an army on here that knock spots off you.

[Major Player]

Stepwayne, guess you obviously know best but I thought that this was about giving people realistic advice - if I'm wrong then clearly keep fighting the good fight in a long winded way that more often than not leads to defeat. If your saying that my 18 years of experience in financial services, predominately in collections and litigation is not needed here then so be it, likewise if having a realistic viewpoint is not needed then fine, I'm in the wrong place and my spots are knocked off.

 

If I'm new to this forum why would I involve myself in problems that are on their way to resolution, I would say stepwayne that you have an unhealhy interest in my posts to be honest!

 

Put simply, I could have been a lot of use to people as I know exactly what responses that they will get, you are being extremely niave if you believe that companies like welcome don't recieve hundreds of the same sort of template letters a day and have don't have teams of people that send equally standardised responses back - the process is long, it is hard and if you want me to say that everything will be sorted tomorrow then I would be wrong.

 

For you to call me a bully is a disgrace, I offer an insight that is from the perspective of the bad boys, so if I've caused fear then its completely by accident. To be clear therefore, I do not believe that Welcome have honoured their agreement and should be brought to task for it - no bones about it this company is awful but if it wasn't then there would be no need for forums like this would there?

 

Bad advice - Nope, bad news definately not

[mark1arby]

Stepwayne, guess you obviously know best but I thought that this was about giving people realistic advice - if I'm wrong then clearly keep fighting the good fight in a long winded way that more often than not leads to defeat. If your saying that my 18 years of experience in financial services, predominately in collections and litigation is not needed here then so be it, likewise if having a realistic viewpoint is not needed then fine, I'm in the wrong place and my spots are knocked off.

 

If I'm new to this forum why would I involve myself in problems that are on their way to resolution, I would say stepwayne that you have an unhealhy interest in my posts to be honest!

 

Put simply, I could have been a lot of use to people as I know exactly what responses that they will get, you are being extremely niave if you believe that companies like welcome don't recieve hundreds of the same sort of template letters a day and have don't have teams of people that send equally standardised responses back - the process is long, it is hard and if you want me to say that everything will be sorted tomorrow then I would be wrong.

 

For you to call me a bully is a disgrace, I offer an insight that is from the perspective of the bad boys, so if I've caused fear then its completely by accident. To be clear therefore, I do not believe that Welcome have honoured their agreement and should be brought to task for it - no bones about it this company is awful but if it wasn't then there would be no need for forums like this would there?

 

Bad advice - Nope, bad news definately not

 

Glad to See You Are Still around Major Player. You Probably Would Make A Good Ally, Although In My Opinion Your People Skills Need A Little Polishing Before You Join The Fight To Regain Our Consumer Rights. I think you need to look at this from the other side of the fence for a change, before you can even think of paying the debt you OWE to Society.

 

Most People Are Here Because They Have Been Treated Wrongly by WFS, NOT Because They Deny Having Made Use Of Any Monies. If A Once Large Company Such As WFS, Who Have So Many Legal People Working For Them Can Not Get The Legal Side Of Agreements Correct From The Beginning, Then They Deserve Everything They Get And Should Simply Cease To Exist.

 

How Companies Like This Keep Their Licence To Trade In Finance. Especially With All The Complaints That They Have To Employ Hundreds Of People To Sort Out. It Is Beyond Me?

 

They Would Not Need To Employ All These Legal Types If The Agreements Were Done Correctly. If Everything Was Transparent And Above Board At Inception, Instead Everything Done Being Underhand And Deceitful, The Customer Would Know Exactly What They Were Signing, And What Was Expected Of Them, And What To Expect From The ****.

 

If You Had Introduced Yourself And Explained What Your Intentions Where, And Why. Then You Would Have Come Across A Little More Sincere. Simply Coming On To CAG And Laying Down What You Are Saying Has The Gospel Truth, Just Points Out The Arrogance Needed Before Someone Can Be Employed In Finance ( Collections And Litigation).

 

It Is Sad To Say " Major Player " (Even Your USER Name Is A WIND UP! (to me at least), You Came Over, When Dispensing Your Opinions Exactly The Same As A Welscum Account Damager, On The Last Day Of the Month, When They Are Bullying And Harassing People, Just So They Can Get Their Part Of The Team Bonus For The Month. With This Kind Of Attitude You Will Find It Extremely Difficult To Find Another Job. Unless Of Course You Consider Collections And Litigation For Some Other Cowboy Outfit. May Be A Career In Debt Collection And Enforcement Beckons?

 

Then You Admit That It Took You 7 Years To Realise What A Bunch Of Con Men WFS Are.

 

Did You Have A Genuine " ROAD TO DAMASCUS " Moment (after 7 years), Or Did You REALISE WHEN YOU LOST YOUR JOB, That Your 7 Year Career Working For These Fraudsters (your words) Invoked No Loyalty From The **** What So Ever? Was It Sour Grapes With The ****, And Wanting to Get Your Own Back, Or Was It A Genuine Feeling Of Remorse And Guilt For What You Have Been Involved With For So Long?

 

We Have Many People On This Forum Who Come From Legal Backgrounds, From Law Enforcement, Who Work In Insurance. There Are Cooks, Schoolteachers, Company Directors, Road Sweepers ET AL. Many Have Taken On these Companies AND WON! So I Personally Do Not Think Advice From Some One Of Your Ilk Will Be Missed!!!

 

Therefore If You Still Think I, Along With All Of My Friends Here Will, Remain Naive For Long. You Are Most Definitely MISTAKEN.

 

Cheers, MARK:cool:

 

PS. Consider Your Spots Knocked OFF!!!

[Gram1]

MARK, purely my opinion of course, but i think that post is totally out of order and too personal.

 

We might not agree with everything MAJOR PLAYER is saying and dont have the same opinions as him, but he has been putting his points across fairly well i think, and has come across as a reasoned and intelligent person. I dont think he deserves to be attacked like that just because we dont agree with him. He is merely offering a different viewpoint which i personally find quite interesting, regardless of whether i agree or not.

 

:-|

[Gram1]

and who are you to say he owes a debt to society, and that we will have problems finding work??? the more i read your post the more angry it makes me, its a disgrace IMO. You've crossed the line of healthy debate into petty, personal insults.

[dawnytrish]

We Have Many People On This Forum Who Come From Legal Backgrounds, From Law Enforcement, Who Work In Insurance. There Are Cooks, Schoolteachers, Company Directors, Road Sweepers ET AL. Many Have Taken On these Companies AND WON! So I Personally Do Not Think Advice From Some One Of Your Ilk Will Be Missed!!!

 

Sorry Mark....think you have come on a bit strong there.

I for one think that all advice should be thankfully received on CAG.Whether we act upon it is up to each individual.

 

Everyone has a different take on things and more heads are better than none.

 

Dawnx

[ozzywizard]

I have read all of MajorPlayers posts and also double read Marks post and to be honest Im about to give Mark a rep point for his post. Yes MajorPlayer may have the best intentions on his posts but he does need to change his attitude and try to look at the issues from the perspective of the consumer.

To make posts pointing us to be niave and usurp himself to be in a position of a greater intelegence than we are due to his background can come across as a little condecending which is the points Mark has raised.

Major players first post on this thread says "Hi, your agreement is a legal one" without even trying to help the OP. This coming from a time served welcome employee shows no remorse or eating of humble pie.

 

However Marks first sentence is "Glad to See You Are Still around Major Player" . .

 

Understand Marks humour and read the posts in their meant texts, Marks post is not insulting it is constructive advise to help Major and us move forward.

again this is my opinion and no offense should be taken by any of us for voicing our opinions.

 

We all work well as a team here and it is our power in numbers that allow us to make a differance to the companies and to each other.

[Gram1]

To make posts pointing us to be niave and usurp himself to be in a position of a greater intelegence than we are due to his background can come across as a little condecending which is the points Mark has raised.

 

 

i have no problem with Marks point, it is the way he was put it across. It is insulting, rude, immature and an absolute disgrace IMO. It sounds like a personal attack. There are much better ways of putting a point across than this. He has done himself no favours by posting in that fashion, and if i was MAJOR PLAYER i would be extremely annoyed and offended.

 

Understand Marks humour and read the posts in their meant texts, Marks post is not insulting it is constructive advise to help Major and us move forward.

So its ok to say whatever you like and in whatever manner you like, so long as you put smiley faces, exclamation marks and capital letters throughout it? do me a favour. Saying something is in humour doesnt excuse saying inapproapriate things

[martski]

Well Said Mark...

Major Player......it Seems As Though You Were Playing As Well As Les Dawson With That Advise.

[martski]

Just As An Addendum... In Regard To Certian People Slating Mark For His Comments... I Have This Peice Of Advice... Read The Whole Thread!!!

You Will See He Has Merely Mirrored And Repeated Remarls Made By Major Player And They Are Not Comments Of His Own.

As Was Stated Last, Lets Stick Together On This. However I Have To Say That I Do Smell A Rat With Certain "advice"