Cabot...yet again!!!

[Delta-Charlie-76]

I recieved a letter from Cabot on Saturday 2nd Jan, which states:

 

*****************************************************

Dear *****

 

Your Cabot account is overdue

We've recently obtained confirmation that you live at the above address. Your account is overdue and we need to talk to you as soon as possible.

 

Contacting Cabot

Call us on 0800 *** **** (Minicom 01732 ******) and speak to one of our helpful customer advisors about the options for repaying your account.

 

Our aim is to help customers get their accounts cleared - so contact us now.

 

Your sincerely

 

Sam Wilson

Recoveries manager

********************************************************

 

Firstly I don't have a clue what account they are on about, I don't know who they collect on behalf of. This is the first contact I've had with them, any advise?

[Melbel]

As far as i am aware you are not obliged to send your signature or anything. They shouldnt be chasing a debt if they are not sure of your identity. Thats for them to prove as is the debt

[Melbel]

Sorry delta charlie - my reply was meant for another similar thread!! although part of my advise still stands lol

[Huff&Puff]

Ignore them until such time as they give you some more meaningful information. It sounds like they are just on a fishing trip at the moment.

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Thanks folks.

 

Just out of interest do they collect on behalf of Capital One by any chance?

[Huff&Puff]

I think all the DCAs collect on behalf of ny of the OCs at one time or another. They just buy job lots of alleged debts regardless of the origin.

[B3rty]

Their threatogram system is automated and best left that way...as soon as you reply or call it brings a human into the scenario so just ignore it.

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Cheers B3rty, will do.

 

If they send anything that gives me any clues why they're after me I will let you know.

 

I have no intention of calling them, if they call me....they will get the usual treatment from me.

[Delta-Charlie-76]

UPDATE!!!

 

Had a letter from Cabot today advising me that they are collecting an old Capital One Credit Card Account.

 

From memory this account is in dispute with Capquest & has been for about a year now.

 

I know I shouldn't have phoned them but I just could not resist, informing them that thje account is in dispute, they are in breach of CPUTR, OFT Debt Collection Guidelines...after this the cheeky swine asked how I wanted to pay.......I nearly fell off my chair laughing........he didn't like that.....I told him no money will be forthcoming as this account is in dispute with another company due to no CCA!

 

Do I send Crakbot the bemused letter? Advise please.

[Huff&Puff]

Yes, I would. Report them to TS and the OFT too, for passing on a disputed alleged debt.

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Had a lovely phone call off of Crakbot this morning at 0802, my missus told them to go away with two words ending with off and put the phone down, barely two minutes later they phone again so I took it, I refused to go through security & told them that I will only communicate in writing & that this alledged debt is in dispute with another company, they asked if I had a letter that I was going to send them, I replied yes there is a letter on its way to you, and that they are not to phone me again or visit me as I am logging all calls with a view of making a complaint to TS/OFT etc.

 

So the bemused letter went off recorded today, if they keep phoning they'll get the Telephone Harassment one too!

 

Next stop Consumer Direct.

[Delta-Charlie-76]

UPDATE:

 

Today waiting in the post I had a rather long winded letter from Crakbot along with several sheets of paper they say is my Consumer Credit Agreement, several problems...it is totally unreadable & with glasses I have very good eyes...you'd need to be superman to read it. Theres no signature, no dates, nothing that I can make out that would link it to me, sadly I have no way of uploading this to the computer.

 

Here is Crakbots letter:

 

********************************************************

Dear Delta-76

 

Our response to your correspondence

 

I refer to your letter recieved on **th January 2010.

 

I understand that you believe your dispute with Capquest Ltd has not been resolved.

 

Upon reviewing our records, I can confirm that we have contacted Capital one bank (COB) to query your dispute with their agent Capquest, COB have confirmed that the sent you all the relevant information and complied with your request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("CCA") on **th December 2008. In addition, COB has confirmed that a Subject Access Request was not recieved and no further dispute was raised.

 

Notwithstanding the above, please find enclosed a copy of COB response on **th December 2008.

 

With regards to your subject notice under section 10 of the Data Prtection Act 1998 ("DPA"), section 10(1) of the DPA states:

 

"Subject to subsection (2), an individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a data controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing, or processing for a specified perpose or in a specified manner, any personal data in respect of which he is the data subject, on the ground, for specified reason -

(a) the processing of those data or their processing for that purpose or in that manner is causing or is likely to cause substantial damage or substantial distress to him or to another, and

(b) that damage or distress is or would be unwarranted"

 

Section 10(2) of the DPA states:

 

"Subsection (1) does not apply

(a) in a case where any of the conditions in paragraphs 1 to 4 of Schedule 2 is met, or

(b) in such other cases as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State by order."

 

I refer to your attention to paragraphs 1 to 4 of Schedule 2 of the DPA, which states:

 

Conditions Relevant for purpose of the First Principle: Processing of any Personal Data

1. The data subject has given his consent to the processing.

2. The processing is necessary

a. For the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party, or

b. For the taking of steps at the request of the data subject with a view of entering a contract

3. The processing is necessary for the compliance with any legal obligation to which the data controller is subject, other than an obligation imposed by contract.

4. The processing in order to protect the viatl interests of the data subject."

 

You shall note from section 10(2) (a) of the DPA, the words "any of the conditions" and paragraph 1 and 2 of Schedule 2 of the DPA are entirely relevant to your case, as you signed a credit agreement which has been assigned by COB to Cabot Financial Limited.

 

I note your reference to section127(3) of the CCA. From the documentation previously provided, there is no question as to the enforceability of your credit agreement. It clearly complies with the requirements of the CCA and the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, relevant at the time. Should you intend to challenge the enforceabilty of your credit agreement, you must apply to the court to obtain a decleration of unforceability. We would recommend you seek independant legal advice prior to the commencement of any such proceedings.

 

We would also like to highlight that the sole purpose of the CCA is for consumer protection, not to provide a method for the avoidance of a debt, which we believe you are attempting in this matter.

 

I note you refer to the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 in that we are harassing you for a debt. We would respectfully inform you that this section has been amended and furthermore does not apply in your circumstances. I can confirm that we have not committed any offence of harassment under the Administration of Justice Act 1970 or otherwise. We would like to confirm again that we have taken over your account from COB, the original lender and we are responsible for administering your account, including taking payments, answering your queries and reporting information to the Credit Reference Bereaux. As a result, we are seeking your co-operation in settling your financial liabilities. Notwithstanding I can confirm that your telephone number has been temprarily removed from our records. However, I must re-iterate that if we do not recieve your co-operation in paying towards your outstanding balance, we shall reserve the right to re-instate telephone contact.

 

Cabot Financial takes all legal and regulatory responsibilities seriously and abides by industry codes of practice and guidance. We wish to assist our customers to get back on track with their finances and that is why we are contacting you.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, if you decide totake legal proceedings against us, we shall strenuously defend the same and may enter a counterclaim for the full outstanding balance and costs, which we may recover on an indemnity basis.

 

The outstanding balance of this account is £****.**. Therefor, please contact our collections department on 0845 **** *** to arrange a repayment plan. If we do not hear from you within 14 days your account shall be escalated in our collections process.

 

I trust I have set out our position clearly and clarified your concerns.

 

If you have any further queries in relation to the above account, please do not hesitate to contact me on 0845 *** ****. The Customer Assurance department is open from 9am to 5pm Monday to Friday.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

*******************************************************

 

With this letter came with Cap Ones Response to my CCA request Dec 08 to which I never recieved. The next letter is what looks like T & C's of some description, another page of god knows what..its unreadable and another sheet that looks like its a letter thats is headed 'TERMS OF YOUR CAPITAL ONE CREDIT CARD AGREEMENT', it does have a credit ammount & number but looks more like a letter, this account was taken out in 2004.

As far as I'm concerned its not a CCA, not even close. Their letter makes me laugh, what planet are they on?

 

Can someone please advise me on what next to send?

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Bump!!!!

[Huff&Puff]

That is a standard, but particularly stupid, reply from a particularly stupid DCA

 

Send them the "in dispute" letter, then ignore them from then on, unless they actually do come up with an enforceable agreement.

[Jasper1965]

 

You shall note from section 10(2) (a) of the DPA, the words "any of the conditions" and paragraph 1 and 2 of Schedule 2 of the DPA are entirely relevant to your case, as you signed a credit agreement which has been assigned by COB to Cabot Financial Limited.

 

 

And now from the OFt draft guidance Jan 2010

 

5.2 In a recent judgment,25 the Commercial Court held, in a case under

section 77 of the Act, that passing details of a debt to a credit reference

agency and related activities do not constitute enforcement. Check!

 

5.3 In drawing a distinction between actions which were and were not

enforcement, no definition of enforcement was given the court, but it

would appear that it was distinguishing between actions based on the

exercise of contractual rights (which would be enforcement) and other

actions intended to obtain payment which did not involve the exercise of

a contractual right. Fail!

 

So by quoting this 'right' under sec 10(2)(a) of the DPA 1998 Cabot are undeniably excercising a "contractual right" (normal caveats apply:eek:) ergo such action is enforcement and therefore by definition against both the OFT guidelines and the CCA 1974 yet okay with certain judges and the ICO.

 

Confused? You will be.:-|

[Delta-Charlie-76]

'Confuesed? You will be.:-|'

 

You bet!!!

 

Still considering my next move, The funny thing is I sent the bemused letter a while back & this letter & the other sheets that came with it was their response to it, so which company is the account in dispute with now Capquest or Crakbot?

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Update: This is a response I got this week from my account in dispute letter:

 

*******************************************************

Mr David ****

************

*************

 

**th February 2010

 

Dear Mr *******

 

Our response to your correspondence

 

I refer to your letter recieved on 16th February 2010.

 

Cabot has previously responded to the issues you have raised and our position remains unchanged. I would with respect advise you that you have been misinformed in relation to the arguments you continue to raise and you have no grounds for your continued dispute and failure to repay your financial liabilities.

 

In relation to your concern regarding the processing of your data, Cabot is legally entitled and obligated under the original credit agreement and under the Data Protection Act ('DPA') to process information and also report to the Credit Reference Agencies ('CRA's'). We disclose information to CRA's about customers' conduct of their accounts because that disclosure is necessary for the purposes of legitimate interests pursued by us, other members of the credit industry and the CRA's to ensure responsible lending. CRA's hold such data and disclose it to prospective lenders because that is, similarly, necessary for the purpose of the same legitimate interests.

 

As previously advised, with regards to your request for all communication in writing, your telephone number has been temporarily removed from our records. However, I must re-iterate that if we do not recieve your co-operation in paying towards your outstanding balances, we shall reserve the right to re-instate telephone contact.

 

The Customer Assurance department will not enter into any further correspondence with you regarding this matter as we have continually responded to the issues you have raised. Your account has been returned to our Collections department and will be escalated in our collections process, if we do not recieve a payment proposal within 7 days.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

********************************************************

 

The only thing I can say to this letter is that if Cabot is bound by my original agreement to process my data.....where is a true signed copy of said agreement?

 

Any thoughts on what I need to send back? Help please.

[Huff&Puff]

There is no point in playing letter ping-pong with them They can try and pretend that the alleged debt is not disputed as much as they like, but it is. So ignore them, and if they continue to harass you, report them to Trading Standards and the OFT for chasing a disputed debt.

[Delta-Charlie-76]

I have no real plan of playing letter ping pong with the either, no enforceable CCA....no payment.....simple! Harass me then they get reported, I have more important things that need my immediate attention at the moment. Thanks Huff&Puff.

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Been a while since the last update, I've had several letters requesting payments & to ring them over the last few months all of which were ignored, today I recieved this through the post:

 

Dear Mr

 

Your account has been escalated to our Pre Litigation Department

 

We've previously advised you that if you didn't repay your outstanding debt to Cabot, we would take further action. Your account has now been escalated to the next stage of our Collections process where a decision will be made accordingly.

 

If we don't haer from you

 

If you don't respond now we may issue a claim for a County Court Judgement and once a County Court Judgement has been granted one of the following enforcement actions will be applied for.

 

Warrent of Execution

Charging Order

Attachmnents of Earnings

Order to Obtain Information

 

Alternatively, we may instruct an External Debt Collection AGency or Legal Agency to call on you.

 

Contacting Cabot

The most important thing for you to do now is to contact us, to stop us taking further action. Call 0800 **** *** (Minicom: 01732 ******) urgently and speak to one of our advisers about your account.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Lindsey Thomas

 

Senior Recoveries Manager

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

looks like one of their Threatograms to me, I'm not bothered if an agent comes up, he'll go away with what he came with.....nothing, zip, b***** all etc

 

Can anyone suggest a letter to reply with as this account is still in dispute & they know it to them, preferably one with a good few teeth in?

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Well........I've just wrecked someones day......phoned Cabot (I know it is against the golden rule), did it for a bit of amusement on a slow afternoon...(Mr Fuzzybobble you are a bad influence...lol....only kidding).

 

Cabot have said that after 6 years they won't & don't have a Consumer Credit AGreement on this account, they can't/won't take me to court but they will continue chasing this debt & that they will send someone round to discuss this matter & he played the moral high grond etc....so I told him Morals & banks don't gotegther & him trying to take the moral high ground doesn't work on me, told him that if they have no CCA then they won't be getting paid, so hard cheese and as for sending someone up told him if they come out they will go away with the same the came with...nothing and it will be logged for a complaint to the OFT/TS etc, he asked for a contact number & e-mail told him he ain't having it & wished him a good day.