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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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1987 Mortgage debt - still being chased!!


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HELP!!!! I am at my wits end, I took out a mortgage with TSB in the late 1980's, I got to stage where I could not afford to live in the property so rented it out to the council, after about 6 months the tenant started to shirk on his responsibilities so the council did not pay me. I could not pay the mortgage & like an ididot did nothing about it. The flat was reposessed without my knowledge. after a couple of years ad passed I just thought it had all squared itself up, flat worth against mortgage due.....NO, TSB (Lloyds) are now pursuing me for 28k!! The mortgage was only £38k & the property was worth about £50k (at the time), what did they sell the property for that I still owe them £28k!!

 

I have never acknowledged the debt even though they have been chasing for about 4 years & issued a CCJ in 2008. My issue is, I work in the Financial Services Industry & my employers are now forcing me to aknowledge to them that the debt is mine (I could lose my job....) I'm scared if I do, I am going to be liable for the whole sum & could be jobless...all my worst nightmares at once come true... I'd rather emigrate quite frankly.

 

I know it was stupid of me to ignore the debt, but now I'm really up pooh creek..

 

Your advice would be most gratefully appreciated.

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Very strange.

 

Don't understand how they got a CCJ against you in 2004. Did you have notice of the action against you at the time the claim was issued?

 

You see, after 12 years from the date of you repossession has passed (say approximately 1989-90), then the Statute of Limitations would have rendered the the contract and mortgage deed non-justiciable. i.e., by say 2002.

 

Who is the THEY you refer to? Is it Lloyds as the original bank or the new version of Lloyds as in the LloydsTSB, or is it a debt collector. The name of the entity that holds a CCJ is important especially if it is not the original lender.

 

If you are now going to try and unravel all this, the major problem is they've got a CCJ despite the fact that the Statute of Limitations rendered their claim void. But nonetheless, you're being held to ransom. Without knowing how the CCJ came to be e.g. whether you had notice, who the claimants were, when and how you found out about the CCJ etc., can say how to go about tackling this problem

 

It's not just your job that's on the line becuase usually they also seek to put a charge on your current house and repossess your new home. Don't mean to upset you, but that's the reality of the evilness of these people.

 

Your employers cannot force you to acknowledge them - there has been a breach of the data protection act if your debtor has been in contact with your employer. And it is evidence of how these banks all stick together to extort cash of us all. So you want to start asking your employer how they came to be informed of this very old "alledged" debt and you may want to do a SAR on the alledged creditor to find out who else they've (maybe unlawfully) given your information to.

 

The 28K will be entirely compound interest that has accrued over the intervening period. There may have been only a very small shortfall but the decade of monthly compounding interest has made it grow to £28K.

 

As for the emigration idea. That's my solution too...the ordinary person in this country is just a slave to the whole corrupt system of courts, banks, FSA etc. etc. they will take the drippings off the end of your nose.

 

The only substantive suggestion is: if they say that you owe them, ask them for ALL the documentation that evidences the alleged debt. Do it in writing, but make sure that you state clearly at the beginning of the letter that you do not acknowledge nor believe that you have any contract with them whatsoever, you expressly deny the debt that they alleged against you, and that the letter is sent expressly without any prejudice to your rights and any claims and remedies that you may assert against them.

Edited by supersleuth
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Another thought, you need to arm yourself with information. So go to the Land Registry to find out (a) who they sold your property to and for how much, (b) then check for whether the property was sold on again. This information is public information now and it is relatively cheap to get copies of the documents. It really will be worth the leg-work.

 

During the 1987-1991 repossessions of that time, one of the scandals was the back-to-back sales. So if Lloyds "turned" the property, i.e. for a low price and then the buyer sold it on a few days later for a much higher price, you could argue that Lloyds sold the property at undervalue and that the 2nd sale was the real value, which means, that there was no shortfall and therefore the deed was fully satisfied. Did you follow that? It may be worth a shot because the banks frequently engaged in this fraudulent activity and it was rife in the early 90's.

 

It might even turn out that they owe you money with monthly compound interest!

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Very strange.

 

Don't understand how they got a CCJ against you in 2004. Did you have notice of the action against you at the time the claim was issued?

 

You see, after 12 years from the date of you repossession has passed (say approximately 1989-90), then the Statute of Limitations would have rendered the the contract and mortgage deed non-justiciable. i.e., by say 2002.

 

Who is the THEY you refer to?

 

If you are now going to try and unravel all this, the major problem is they've got a CCJ despite the fact that the Statute of Limitations rendered their claim void. But nonetheless, you're being held to ransom. Without knowing how the CCJ came to be e.g. whether you had notice, who the claimants were, when and how you found out about the CCJ etc., can say how to go about tackling this problem

 

Your employers cannot force you to acknowledge them

 

The 28K will be entirely compound interest that has accrued over the intervening period. There may have been only a very small shortfall but the decade of monthly compounding interest has made it grow to £28K.

 

 

The only substantive suggestion is: if they say that you owe them, ask them for ALL the documentation that evidences the alleged debt. Do it in writing, but make sure that you state clearly at the beginning of the letter that you do not acknowledge nor believe that you have any contract with them whatsoever, you expressly deny the debt that they alleged against you, and that the letter is sent expressly without any prejudice to your rights and any claims and remedies that you may assert against them.

 

Hi, Sorry for late response & many thanks for yor mail, here are some answers:-

 

The Mortgage was taken out in Aug '90 / Repossesion was Nov 96, they say the property was sold for £25k, the mortgage outstanding was £42.9k, the interest is running at 8% PA

 

Not sure about the notice of action, I have moved at least 5 times since I was at the property, so if I did, I never recevied anything,

I found out about the debt in 2006 (approximately) after being chased by a Manchester debt collector, when I did not respond they must have gone back to Lloyds who then took out the CCJ

 

my employers did a 'background check' on me when they employed me (new security rules so they say...) & this materialised. I also thought they did not have a leg to stand on, but I know better now..

The Mortgage was with TSB bank Plc, the CCJ is with Lloyds Bank Plc.... very strange

I have never acknowledged the debt because I knews that would get me into even deeper water without a solicitor...which would have made it twice as bad.

Jesus! 28k of interest.... WTF....can they really do that?? Do you think they are just trying to see what they can get using scare mongering of the little guy tactics. So you really think my current property is at stake?It really is time to take my head out of the sand & tackle this once & for all, I'll try to draft a letter over the weekend & forward to them on your advice

Thanks for the advice re: the Land registry details too, I will indeed have a look, any money I can get back will be les money I owe in the long run. I'll ask get onto that right now

 

Many thanks again

Edited by inspectorgadget
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Do you know when the last payment was made on the mortgage and also what was the date of the CCJ ?

 

It sounds as if they got the CCJ by default as you didn't respond to the court claim - did they have your new address after the repossession?

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Your 50K flat sold for £25K - yeah right...in addition to the guidance that Ellen will give you, I strongly recommend that you go to the Land Registry to see if there was a back-to-back sale of your property - could almost guarantee that there was! Whilst the first sale may have been for 25K, there most likely would have been a further sale for say £50K. The mortgagee is under a fiduciary duty to sell for a market price and therefore, if there was a futher sale, as I strongly suspect for say market value at e.g. £50K, then they would owe you £8.5K plus interest.

 

Therefore, in addition to Ellen's guidance it is also really is worth your while checking out with the Land REgistry what sales were executed within the years 1996 - 1997.

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Hi, Sorry for late response & many thanks for yor mail, here are some answers:-

 

The Mortgage was taken out in Aug '90 / Repossesion was Nov 96, they say the property was sold for £25k, the mortgage outstanding was £42.9k, the interest is running at 8% PA

 

Not sure about the notice of action, I have moved at least 5 times since I was at the property, so if I did, I never recevied anything,

I found out about the debt in 2006 (approximately) after being chased by a Manchester debt collector, when I did not respond they must have gone back to Lloyds who then took out the CCJ

 

my employers did a 'background check' on me when they employed me (new security rules so they say...) & this materialised. I also thought they did not have a leg to stand on, but I know better now..

The Mortgage was with TSB bank Plc, the CCJ is with Lloyds Bank Plc.... very strange

I have never acknowledged the debt because I knews that would get me into even deeper water without a solicitor...which would have made it twice as bad.

Jesus! 28k of interest.... WTF....can they really do that?? Do you think they are just trying to see what they can get using scare mongering of the little guy tactics. So you really think my current property is at stake?It really is time to take my head out of the sand & tackle this once & for all, I'll try to draft a letter over the weekend & forward to them on your advice

Thanks for the advice re: the Land registry details too, I will indeed have a look, any money I can get back will be les money I owe in the long run. I'll ask get onto that right now

 

Many thanks again

 

Mortgage Aug 90

When did you default

When was CCJ obtained (was it within 12 years of default)

 

Sorry Ell-en great minds think alike:D

Edited by JonCris
Wrong mortgage start date
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Hi, Sorry for late response & many thanks for yor mail, here are some answers:-

 

 

Thanks for the advice re: the Land registry details too, I will indeed have a look, any money I can get back will be les money I owe in the long run. I'll ask get onto that right now

 

 

Hi Inspectorgadget,

 

Just to clarify..the point is, that if your lender did engage in the back-to-back selling of your property, and did really sell for say, 50K, then would not be a question of "less money you owe in the long run", it means that you owe no money at all! You see, if there was really no shortfall, then there was no shortfall on which interest accrued, which means the you may have a complete defence (if you can show there was a back-to-back sale and therefore a breach of fiduciary duty).

 

Plus, it means that say the surplus, i.e. £8.5K that was owed to you, but not paid to you, would have attracted compound interest at the contractual rate. Thus, it could turn out that they owe YOU £28K or more!. All this of course is dependent on your finding out the facts from the Land Registry. As I said before, the lenders regularly engaged in this back-to-back selling fraud during that period of repossessions. You just need to find out if you too, were a victim of that crime.

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Did You Make Any Acknowledgement On This Shortfall Or Make Any Payments Between

 

15/11/96 And

 

15/11/2008

 

Nice thing about the snow..I get to work from home :)

 

Thanks for your responses, I have made no acknowledgement of the debt whatsoever even to this date. I just feel nowI should tackle this thing head on as its causing me undue stress...:mad:

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Your 50K flat sold for £25K - yeah right...in addition to the guidance that Ellen will give you, I strongly recommend that you go to the Land Registry - then they would owe you £8.5K plus interest.

 

Therefore, in addition to Ellen's guidance it is also really is worth your while checking out with the Land REgistry what sales were executed within the years 1996 - 1997.

 

I will indeed check out the land registry over this coming weekend, its worth it if I can throw this back on them, It would be a nice surprise if it appreciated in value even in such bad times (that was the height of the last recession)

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Do you know when the last payment was made on the mortgage and also what was the date of the CCJ ?

 

It sounds as if they got the CCJ by default as you didn't respond to the court claim - did they have your new address after the repossession?

 

Hi, I think the last payment was made in 1994, bu to be truthful, I could not guarantee thatas I have discarded all of my TSB documents... a bit silly of me. I never gave them my new address, I suspect they got it from the electorial register or from one ofthe credit reference agencies as they track your adresses don't they?

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Date Of Repo

15/11/96

Add 12 Years

15/11/2008

 

Ok When Was The Last Cause Of Action, That Is Made A Payment To This Mortage Account

 

Hi again, as last said, not 100% sure when the last payment was made, I said end of 1994, but sayingthat though it must have been after this as they woyuld not have waited 2 years to repossess... I would never be able to find this out unless I asked for copies of them frm Lloyds TSB.

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Well You Would Be Able To

 

You Need To Do An Sar On Lloyds

You Need To Tell Them The Account Is Live And The Statute Of Limitations Start 6 Years From The Date Of The Ccj So The Age Of The Account Is Irelevent

 

You Require All Statements In The Sar To Be Released

 

Request That They Must Include Full Statements Up To The Default/termination Notice

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Well You Would Be Able To

 

You Need To Do An Sar On Lloyds

You Need To Tell Them The Account Is Live And The Statute Of Limitations Start 6 Years From The Date Of The Ccj So The Age Of The Account Is Irelevent

 

You Require All Statements In The Sar To Be Released

 

Request That They Must Include Full Statements Up To The Default/termination Notice

 

Hi, many thanks again, this is all new unchartered territory for me & I am glad for the navigation assistance, do I write to the address on the CCJ which is Gloucester GL4 3RL?

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As far as I am aware County Court Judgements are not constrained by the Limitations Act. However, if there has been a long time between the CCJ being granted and the claimant pressing for money then the court may request a hearing to determine why they have waited so long.

Help us to keep on helping

Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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