Natwest Credit Card and 1stCredit

[therapist]

Hello everybody,

 

Looks like it's my turn now. Will try to show you the big picture, as clearly as possible.

 

 

• Back in 2005 had a Credit Card with Natwest.
  
• Then left the country, did some traveling. Came back now.
  
• December 5th 2009. Was trying to make an online payment to pay my rent of £1100, and accidently sent the money to the now expired Natwest Credit Card (yes, stupid me).
  
• December 7th 2009. Called up the Natwest Credit Card customer service, they say they got the money, which cleared a £500 negative balance (ahha, so I did have some negative balance on the card), so basicly they say they owe me £600.
  
• I ask them to transfer the amount overpayed back to my present account. And here they notify me that the matter is now being dealt with by 1stCredit, and they cannot help me with anything anymore.
  
• On phone with 1stCredit. The say they are now the owners of my Natwest Credit Card account, and they do not see any money arriving at the account, so they want me to pay £500 (which look suspiciuosly like the negative amount I already kind of paid off to Natwest (?)). I tell them I transfered the money to the Credit Card by mistake, but they still should be able to access it, and send them an email with a bank statement screenshot, as a proof that I did send more than I owe them to my Credit Card account. Silence after that.
  
• December 30th, me calling them on the status of the case. They act very ****ed, threatening me with legal action, demanding I pay them right now on the phone. Denying that they see any money arriving at the account. I am asking them to postpone the payment till the end of January, hoping that the "lost" money will appear somewhere by then. They still threaten me with legal action, DEMANDING the money to be paid on Monday, January 4th, 2010. I tell them I'll call back later.
  

And here I am. Scared, angry, humiliated.

So I go to Google looking for more phone numbers at 1stCredit to call to. And here I stumble upon CAG.

 

Read some threads on 1stCredit, get to know the situation. And then I call them and ask them for some proof of debt. The Lady acts all wind up, stating that by this I am denying the fact that I actually want to pay them, showing my unwilingness to cooperate, denying the fact that I did send them more than I owe them. Accusing me of lying and so on.

 

By here I am almost crying. And tell her that I am sending out a CCA request to them ASAP. She's going crazy, threatening me with lawyers and so on. I ask her for their address, which she tells me in a rather hastily manner, making it for me impossible to have time to write it down.

 

So I am preparing a CCA request for them now, will send it out as soon as possible.

And am willing to communicate with them only in writing from now on.

What else should I do now?

 

Just to clarify -- I do admit that I have probably forgot some negative balance on the card, and I would be willing to pay the debt off (I actually kind of already did pay it off), but 1stCredit are not showing any will to see where the money went to, all they see is the debt. They are not very cooperative. That is why I am going with the CCA request -- buying more time probably.

 

So, the questions are who got my £1100? How (and from who) do I get the money back? Do I pay 1stCredit the hypothethical amount I owe them on Monday?

 

 

 

Any advice appreciated,

Cheers.

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome,

 

Think your issues are with Natwest, I'd send a Subject Access Request to them, that would let you know the score, regarding any payments made or received by them.

 

This would also let you know how much of this negative balance was charges, then claim them back.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[therapist]

Thank you Scott. I will send a Subcject Access Request to Natwest.

In the meantime, how do I deal with 1stCredit? I feel like they're breathing to my neck, and it drives me crazy. They're just so unimaginably uncooperative.

[lilly white]

ok and welcome'

 

we hate these people more then you.

 

1st and golden rule , do not speak to them again.

 

i see you are sending a sar to the banks.

 

 

may i ask what was the account credit card when was it taken out any ppi charges.

[therapist]

Hey Lilly,

 

I don't quite get the "may i ask what was the account credit card when was it taken out any ppi charges" part of your reply though. Sorry I am not very literate in these procedures

[lilly white]

well the account was a credit card

 

so when did you take it out what year

 

any insurance

 

any charges

[therapist]

I did not "take it out". I simply forgot about the negative balance and left the card to expire. It expired in 2007 or 2008 I suppose.

 

No insurance.

 

As for the charges -- while on the phone with Natwest Credit Card customer service I found out that the negative balance, before I transfered the £1100, was -£508. That's all I know at the moment.

[comebackjimmy]

Hi

 

Just a quick thought on this matter. Did you get a notice of assignment?

 

If you did then Natwest no longer owns the debt, it is owned by 1st Credit.

 

I would think therefore that Natwest should legally return ALL the money you accidentally transferred to them as they have received it in error.

 

I would not think they can keep any of it not withstanding you originally owed it to them as they sold it on.

 

In fact as things now stand they are ahead because not only have you paid off the money but they have received a payment from 1st credit for the account.

 

I would think, subject to the opinions of other more knowledgeable people on here, that if 1st Credit own the debt they will view the situation as you still owing them. Anything you have done with Natwest is not relevant to them, any more than it would be if you accidentally overpaid your electricity bill.

 

The way I see it you need to pursue Natwest to recover ALL your money. As far as 1st Credit are concerned make them jump through the usual hoops before admitting to the debt or paying them anything, as their treatment of you is the usual bullying and they deserve nothing better from you in return.

[lilly white]

i see.

 

do not trust 1st credit.

 

1/

 

send them a letter to prove the debt is users

 

2/ ask for a copy of the agreedment and a statment

 

3/ wait for your reply from the bank re your sar.

Edited December 30, 2009 by lilly white

[therapist]

Unfortunately I am not aware of any correspondence I might have received in the years I was away -- I have now moved to a different town in a different part of country to a new address and have none connection whatsoever to my old address.

 

Sorry I forgot to mention this in the thread-starter.

 

As for getting the amount back from Natwest -- how would I proceed with that?

 

Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions -- I'm rather lost and can't think thoroughly when under pressure like this from 1stCredit.

[lilly white]

send this edit to suit to 1st credit

 

Name/Address:

 

Date:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the CPUTR 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading's Guidance on debt collection, which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. AND in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards and also inform the Office Of Fair Trading of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully do not sign

[lilly white]

imho i would send above letter put the ball in their court.

 

also you may have to sue natwest however that another days work.

 

 

keep us posted i will keep a watch.

 

 

Again do not speak to these people again ever again

[angry cat]

When did you apply for the credit card;

what year?

[boswell]

Hi therapist, i think the Subject Access Request is your best way forward as you say you moved house and are not aware of any mail after you allowed the card to lapse.

You should get copies of all mail and info on your account and also proof of your £1100 and where it is now.

You will find an SAR letter to personalise in the templates section on this site.

AS FOR 1st Crapit i personally would just send them an account in dispute letter and ignore them till your SAR comes through.

[therapist]

imho i would send above letter put the ball in their court.

 

also you may have to sue natwest however that another days work.

 

 

keep us posted i will keep a watch.

 

 

Again do not speak to these people again ever again

 

Thanks for the letter template.

On what grounds would I sue Natwest. I always thought of myself as a peaceful, no-need-to-sue-anyone person. And suggestions like these give me chills

 

 

 

When did you apply for the credit card;

what year?

 

It was such a long while ago I can't remember. But it was either 2005 or 2006. Does it make a difference?

 

Hi therapist, i think the Subject Access Request is your best way forward as you say you moved house and are not aware of any mail after you allowed the card to lapse.

You should get copies of all mail and info on your account and also proof of your £1100 and where it is now.

You will find an SAR letter to personalise in the templates section on this site.

AS FOR 1st Crapit i personally would just send them an account in dispute letter and ignore them till your SAR comes through.

 

Thanks for the outline. As for the 1stCrapit -- may a "CCA request" letter be called an "account in dispute" letter? Or is it something else I completely missed?

[boswell]

No, they are completely different.

A 'CCA' request is as it says a request for a True copy of the agreement they are trying to enforce.

Lettter N in this link will do, send it Recorded Delivery and Print do not sign it.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

An "Account in Dispute" letter is when you are disputing the debt.

 

A SAR is for copies of all info the Original Creditor holds about you in relation to your account under the Data Protection Act 1998

This Link will help with SAR and explain better

How to access information - Information Commissioner's Office (ICO)

 

B.

[therapist]

Finally, an update.

 

Back then I decided to not send any CCA's or anything to neither Natwest or 1st-Credit, hoping they would come to sense.

 

And they did!

 

In the beginning of April I received a letter from 1st-Credit called something like 'DIRECT PAYMENT TO CLIENT CLAIM REQUEST' (will update the title later this evening, if remember to do it), which said that they were asking Natwest directly, if there actually was a transfer received by them, and that it would also take up to a month.

 

And that's it. No other communication from 1st-Credit. Last week I decided to call them up with a status update request. And, oh wow, apparently they did receive the money, and they agreed to pay me back the amount I overpayed.

 

Finally, today I received the amount in my bank account. Which is great news and end of story.

 

Although, a question -- am I in any kind of credit black list right now? Who do I ask? How do I fix it if I'm in there?

[lickthewallfatboy]

there's no such thing as a credit blacklist per se-they just rubbish your credit files

 

learn to live without credit and they can shove their credit ratings right up their jacksy

[comebackjimmy]

learn to live without credit and they can shove their credit ratings right up their jacksy.........

 

 

...........this should be a T-shirt lickthewall:D

[therapist]

All right guys, sorry for asking. I see your opinion on credits is the same as mine ;]]

 

In this case it's a matter of principle -- me not wanting to be included in any kind of white or black or any other color lists.

[lickthewallfatboy]

sod 'em

 

you'll eventually reach the stage where they become a total irrelevance

you might not think that now,but you will!!

[therapist]

Hey, as promised, in case anyone is interested and/or is collecting various bureaucratic letters, here's the one I mentioned in one of my last posts:

 

Dear Sir / Madam

 

 

Client: NATWEST BANK

Relating to Account Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Balance Outstanding: £5xx.xx

Our Ref: xxxxxxx

 

DIRECT TO CLIENT PAYMENT CLAIM

 

We refer to your communication advising 1st Credit Ltd that you have made a payment towards the above debt direct to our client.

 

We will advise our client of your claim. Please note that it may be one month before our client is able to confirm this information.

 

If the client confirms that payment in full has been made, your account will be closed and no further recovery action will be taken.

 

If the client confirms that a part payment has been made, your account balance will be adjusted accordingly.

 

If a balance is still payable after the relevant payment has been allocated to your account then we would ask you to send payment of this amount to 1st Credit Ltd immediately.

 

If our client states that payment has not been made then we will o course consider legal action. You will appreciate that bogus claims must be dealt with in this manner.

 

To ensure this matter is resolved promptly, you may wish to provide us with documentary evidence to support your claim.

 

Please call this offise on 0843 320 0000 should you wish to discuss this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Thanks to everyone for helping me sort out this matter,

The thread may be closed now.

 

M.