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    • Thank-you dx, What you have written is certainly helpful to my understanding. The only thing I would say, what I found to be most worrying and led me to start this discussion is, I believe the judge did not merely admonish the defendant in the case in question, but used that point to dismiss the case in the claimants favour. To me, and I don't have your experience or knowledge, that is somewhat troubling. Again, the caveat being that we don't know exactly what went on but I think we can infer the reason for the judgement. Thank-you for your feedback. EDIT: I guess that the case I refer to is only one case and it may never happen again and the strategy not to appeal is still the best strategy even in this event, but I really did find the outcome of that case, not only extremely annoying but also worrying. Let's hope other judges are not quite so narrow minded and don't get fixated on one particular issue as FTMDave alluded to.
    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parking Behind Yellow Line


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Can you advise please...?

I have parked my van in front of gate of the office building or more precisely sideways on the driveway behind yellow line (there was another car parked right in front of the gate)

I thought that if you are parked behind yellow line its private property.

Anyway I’ve got ticket for the following contravention: 624 Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of road other than carriageway.

Secondly on the two pictures attached to the PCN the registration mark is not fully visible I mean - one digit of the vehicle registration mark is not visible at all. On first picture you can see first half and on the other the second half of the registration plate - but without the middle digit.

Do you think I can appeal against the PCN?

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Can you post the PCN up so we can take a look (obscure reg details ect). Also if you have pics of the location or let us know the location so we may be able to Google it.

 

 

Hi Thank you for reply.

 

The address is 26 Banner Street EC1, Islington.

Thats the entrance with Yelow sigh 'MAX. HEADROOM 2.4M'

 

I have also attached the PCN.

Thaks again.

SCAN0008.jpg

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Just to add that any traffic orders prohibiting parking normally extend to the rear of the adopted footway.

 

You probably need to check the limits of adoption.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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Sorry JS,This is not bang to rights and you should,nt say it is until all avenues of appeal have been explored.

It seem to me that a procedural impropriety has occured, they state the you should pay the penalty must be paid WITHIN the period of 28 days, when the correct wording should be "paid before the end of the period of 28 days"

:mad:LF53
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It does look as though you were all over the footway (Google street view here.)

 

Yep, I have to agree...even though I can't see much in the OP's thumbnail pic!

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

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Sorry JS,This is not bang to rights and you should,nt say it is until all avenues of appeal have been explored.

It seem to me that a procedural impropriety has occured, they state the you should pay the penalty must be paid WITHIN the period of 28 days, when the correct wording should be "paid before the end of the period of 28 days"

 

I can't comment on this, but it's an interesting observation...how did you manage to read the thumbnail?!! :confused:

 

Such technicalities appear to be the only grounds for appeal in this case.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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By using the word "within" they are effectivly prolonging the time to pay or appeal to 29 days and as the Local authority have no right to do this, it renders the original PCN prejudical and unenforcable.

As in the ruling of "Al,s bar and resturant-v-wandsworth"

 

It really is suprising that some LA,s have not changed the wording by now

:mad:LF53
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By using the word "within" they are effectivly prolonging the time to pay or appeal to 29 days and as the Local authority have no right to do this, it renders the original PCN prejudical and unenforcable.

As in the ruling of "Al,s bar and resturant-v-wandsworth"

 

It really is suprising that some LA,s have not changed the wording by now

 

Whilst I am sure you know what you are saying, that makes no sense to me. How does the word 'within' extend 28 days to 29 days? Within my house means the same as before you reach the edge of my house surely?

 

Happy to hear clarification. I still think there is no grounds for appeal but am completely open to correction.

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How does the word 'within' extend 28 days to 29 days?
"Within" has been held to mean "excluding the first day" (Al's Bar and Restaurant v Wandsworth) so the PCN actually means "29 days beginning with the date of service".
It's not what you, BaldyBaldwin or I infer, but what the courts interpret.
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As far as i am aware, "within" has been held (in Al's Bar and Restaurant v Wandsworth) excludes the first day mentioned. As such, it gives a time period of 29 days beginning with the date of service of the notice, not 28. This is non-compliant and prejudicial.

 

good point Real Name, but i believe the adjudicators have already interpreted on this one

:mad:LF53
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That case was upheld on the basis of a raft of non-compliance details. It was not simply the one phrase "Within the period of 28 days". I am not certain that an appeal would win, but it's worth a try. They might uphold an appeal simply to avert a possible PATAS case and subsequent costs should they lose and have to cancel a load of other PCNs.

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Thank you,

sailor sam, JimmySpangle, BaldyBaldwin, WelshMam2009, My Real Name and Jamberson

 

 

It was very enlightening, I will appeal based on the Within the period of 28 days".

Will see... I will let you know how this case ended.

Regards Ciupas[/font]

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Hi Thank you for reply.

 

The address is 26 Banner Street EC1, Islington.

Thats the entrance with Yelow sigh 'MAX. HEADROOM 2.4M'

 

I have also attached the PCN.

Thaks again.

 

The above coments seem to be correct i'm afraid although I think the PCN may be flawed because you cannot see the whole VRM in either of the pics. Also I believe that there should not be a person in the foreground. But as for the offence itself, you seem to be parked ilegally.

 

Your only hope is to appeal aginst the actual PCN on the grounds it was not correctly issued.

 

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a) That is not a PCN its a notice to owner

b) There is no legal requirement for ANY photos let alone ones with the VRM.

c) 'within a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service' is not the same as 'within 28 days' as in Al's Bar and Restaurant v Wandsworth and those that quoted it should actually go back and read it properly.

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I think the PCN may be flawed because you cannot see the whole VRM in either of the pics. Also I believe that there should not be a person in the foreground.

 

The contents of photographs have no bearing on the validity of a PCN. There is no obligation to take photos, and they are not relied on. They are just a convenient way of clarifying matters if disputes arise. So, this would not affect the vaildity of this PCN.

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The contents of photographs have no bearing on the validity of a PCN. There is no obligation to take photos, and they are not relied on. They are just a convenient way of clarifying matters if disputes arise. So, this would not affect the vaildity of this PCN.

 

This is why i said 'I THINK the PCN MAY be flawed'. Obviously we are trying to 'clutch straws' on this one! But thanks for the clarification and also to G & M.

Edited by sailor sam
Signature still not posted

 

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