Can We All Do Something Meaningful About Starting A 'class Action' Against Lenders ?

[rocket1]

An informative article which helps explain just how we can make progress with taking legal action against the lenders.

 

You just need to write down the exact facts surrounding your mortgage and then look for any evidence to prove mis-selling. You might be surprised to find how much there might actually be !

 

 

 

 

http://www.walletpop.co.uk/2009/11/30/were-you-mis-sold-your-mortgage/

 

As many as 371,000 home owners say they were given bad advice or mis-sold their mortgage – and many may have a claim against their lender or broker.

 

Under FSA rules if the advice given breached the rulebook for mortgage advisers – "Mortgage and Home Finance: Conduct of Business" then borrowers struggling to pay their mortgage could take their case to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

 

According to mortgage claims referral service badlender.co.uk, 161,500 home owners don't think they had the right advice from their lender or broker when taking out their mortgage, and 209,500 home owners think that they may have been mis-sold their mortgage.

 

So how do you go about making a claim?

 

 

Recently several struggling home owners have made successful claims against their lender or broker after they were able to prove that their mortgage was mis-sold to them. In each of the instances they have been able to reclaim the money that they were in arrears by and additional costs, as they were able to prove that they should not have been advised to take out the mortgage in the first instance.

 

Identifying that a mortgage has been mis-sold can be difficult, but the successful home owners so far have been able to prove in each of the incidents that the advice offered to them was proven not to have been "suitable for that consumer", and records were not made or retained – and this breaks FSA rules.

 

In the last financial year alone the FOS received more than 7,000 mortgage complaints from consumers (excluding mortgage endowment complaints), and currently upholds 41% of all mortgage complaints.

 

Stephen Dargavel, director of Badlender.co.uk said: "The justice that some recent home owners have gained by challenging their lenders and brokers should serve as a warning sign. It should also act as a beacon of hope for those who genuinely believe that they may have been mis-sold a mortgage. There is something that can be done, and people do not need to suffer in silence."

 

However, taking cases to a broker/lender or the FOS can be a complicated process, and consumers will need all relevant documentation to support any mis-selling complaint that they want to put forward.

Edited January 4, 2010 by rocket1

[frettful38]

Hi rocket1, I would just like to say that the advice and work you have done is excellent. I am taking a keen interest on all that you have been posting and I am very pleased with all the important information that you are giving.

 

I had a nightmare when I had to remortgage my house to pay off my OH's Trustee in Bankruptcy. I strongly believe that my Mortgage Broker gave me a very bad deal, and did not act in our best interest and I am left in quite a dilemma now.

 

What advice would you recommend for me please, if any?

[rocket1]

Hi rocket1, I would just like to say that the advice and work you have done is excellent. I am taking a keen interest on all that you have been posting and I am very pleased with all the important information that you are giving.

 

I had a nightmare when I had to remortgage my house to pay off my OH's Trustee in Bankruptcy. I strongly believe that my Mortgage Broker gave me a very bad deal, and did not act in our best interest and I am left in quite a dilemma now.

 

What advice would you recommend for me please, if any?

 

Ummm ?

 

The whole point of me endlessly going on about the necessity of people writing out their precise narrative of their mortgage is to be able to identify exactly what happened so as to be able to see whether a broker or lender acted in a manner which would allow legal action to be taken against them.

 

There are rules of law determining the manner in which brokers and lenders are required to behave.

 

You might indeed have had a nightmare and it may be true your Mortgage broker gave you a very bad deal, but how can anyone give you advice if they do not understand what sort of bad deal it was.

 

If it was the sort of bad deal where the broker acted in a manner which broke the rules governing him, or the lender did the same, then a lawyer would be able to see it and give the advice that you could have a case to bring a court action against them.

 

It's sort of really simple really - so far !

 

As I am not a lawyer, I am not in a position to give much advice yet because I have not yet learned enough. But a lawyer specialising in this area of law would have learnt enough about it over a very long time.

 

It is his advice that we all need to seek. If he then advises there is a case, then it can be pursued.

 

What we have to do here is to begin to be able to look at the narrative of how people's mortgages were set up and find out if miss-selling or other things took place which broke the law.

 

So, if you explain what happened and why you think you were given a bad deal the idea is that our accumulation of knowledge from people here will be able to see from your experience if it warrants taking your broker to court or not.

 

If it does look like the sort of thing that would make this possible, our aim is to collectively take all these cases to lawyers who really know their stuff and to persuade an organisation with clout - like the Office of Fair Trading or Shelter - to actually take on this legal action for everyone together.

 

Just looking at what little information about your re- mortgage you have supplied; if I was a lawyer I would ask myself:

 

- why did you want to pay off your OH trustee in bankruptcy ?

 

- did you realise that if you re-mortgaged to do this you might lose your home ?

 

- if you were insistent on taking the general risk of increasing your mortgage to help pay off the trustee, what sort of mortgage was it ?

 

- was it an ordinary 'high street' mortgage from a reputable lender at normal interest rates ?

 

- or was it a particularly onerous mortgage with a dodgy lender like all these sub-prime loan sharks such as SPML (subsiduary of ghastly Lehman Bros whose bankruptcy destroyed the Global economy) ?

 

- what advice did your broker give you ? did he say "yeah, I can easily get you a mortgage and you can borrow pretty much what you want from a sub-prime lender because you can self certify what income you have - even if you were on State benefits; then a lawyer will instantly tell you that there is a case for legal action because the broker was not acting in your best interests.

 

- if the broker failed to tell you that it was possible to get a better mortgage and that it was almost certainly a very bad idea to pay off the trustee anyway with your money from your house then that begins to look like a broker acting improperly and that you might well have grounds for legal action.

 

- but what else might or might not have happened that could also indicate legal action ? No-one can possibly find out from you by asking you every possible question so as to painfully tease out all the details that would show possible causes of legal action.

 

This is why everyone needs to actually write the whole story of their own mortgage out with details of what they think might be wrong about it.

Edited January 4, 2010 by rocket1

[nuke em]

Here is what you need to know about Mortgages! ALL Mortgages !~

 

A Mortgage is a form of Contract , only is is not a fair & just contract. Why not? .......

When a man or woman signs a (Mortgage) document, the funds for that "loan" are created there & then. In fact they are deposited into an escrow account where they stay for 3 years, if they are not claimed ( by the person who signed) then under the 3yr Maritime Salvage Act , someone claims them? Guess who that is? - were you told this? No? , ok That's Non Disclosure then . contract is null & void

 

Futhermore for a Contract to be enforceable in Law, it must fulfill certain

commonsense criteria. There are four of them, and they are designed to

make sure the promises are sufficiently explicit, such that neither Party

can later claim: “I wasn't told about that bit!”.

These components are:

1. Full Disclosure: Which means that each Party writes down exactly

what their promise comprises, and all the relevant circumstances, so as to

put it into the context they consider applicable. If one has any sense, any

necessary 'get outs' should be included within the Full Disclosure.

2. Equal Considerations: A Contractual Consideration is an ‘item of

value’. It may be money, or it may be an item. Both Parties must consider

the exchange to be equal in value.

(As we already know, ‘money’ is an illusion, and is nothing more

than an empty, meaningless IOU. Consequently most Contracts can be

shown to fail in this respect, if one has the will to do that. This is explained later.

One argument, when receiving a demand for money is:

“What do you want me to pay you with? Meaningless, empty-promise, worthless Debt Notes? Or do you want something of value, in which case you need to ask for it”).

Obviously for Considerations to be equal they cannot change, once

agreed. Thus any Contract employing variable Interest Rates is null &

void in Law. Accepting the validity of variable Considerations, and not

standing up against them, is precisely how so many people embroil

themselves in debt.

And, in any case – the funds to create 'Interest' forms no part of our Monetary Belief System. Or, to put this another way,

'Interest' is nowhere created, and consequently it is impossible to pay off

all loans, and impossible for everyone to stay out of bankruptcy. Those

who stay out of bankruptcy are doing so purely on the backs of those who

enter bankruptcy – purely because they were simply the first to grab

whatever was available. (Whether they realise this or not).

3. Lawful Terms and Conditions: Which, fundamentally, means that

there should be no mischief in the proposed agreements.

4. Mutual Intent: Which means 'some manifestation that each Party

intended to Contract'. This could be hand-written signature 'marks', or

can be 'conduct'. In other words if at least one of the Parties starts to do

what was promised. This is sometimes expressed as 'performance' - or, at

least, 'the start of performance'.

You have, probably without realising it, entered into many Contracts in

your life. And, as we shall see, most of them are null and void in Law,

because (even allowing for the small print) they fail on at least one of the

components 1, 2, 3 or 4.

The most important thing to realise is that no ‘small print’ can override

the fundamental aspects a Contract must fulfill in order to be lawful, and

therefore enforceable. ‘Invalid small print’ does not actually nullify a

Contract, but its provisions are irrelevant because they are unenforceable

in Law. Therefore any Contract that relies upon unenforceable small

print (for example variable Interest Rates) is – to all intents and purposes

null & void. But you have to say so. A Court will not say it for you

All mortgages are a fraud in factum as are all loans, credit cards etc!!!!

The United Kingdom is a corporation ( as seperate from the actul landmass) and has been operating in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy since the 1930's . And in Bankruptcy you can't pay a debt with a debt!

[frettful38]

Ummm ?

 

The whole point of me endlessly going on about the necessity of people writing out their precise narrative of their mortgage is to be able to identify exactly what happened so as to be able to see whether a broker or lender acted in a manner which would allow legal action to be taken against them.

 

There are rules of law determining the manner in which brokers and lenders are required to behave.

 

You might indeed have had a nightmare and it may be true your Mortgage broker gave you a very bad deal, but how can anyone give you advice if they do not understand what sort of bad deal it was.

 

If it was the sort of bad deal where the broker acted in a manner which broke the rules governing him, or the lender did the same, then a lawyer would be able to see it and give the advice that you could have a case to bring a court action against them.

 

It's sort of really simple really - so far !

 

As I am not a lawyer, I am not in a position to give much advice yet because I have not yet learned enough. But a lawyer specialising in this area of law would have learnt enough about it over a very long time.

 

It is his advice that we all need to seek. If he then advises there is a case, then it can be pursued.

 

What we have to do here is to begin to be able to look at the narrative of how people's mortgages were set up and find out if miss-selling or other things took place which broke the law.

 

So, if you explain what happened and why you think you were given a bad deal the idea is that our accumulation of knowledge from people here will be able to see from your experience if it warrants taking your broker to court or not.

 

If it does look like the sort of thing that would make this possible, our aim is to collectively take all these cases to lawyers who really know their stuff and to persuade an organisation with clout - like the Office of Fair Trading or Shelter - to actually take on this legal action for everyone together.

 

Just looking at what little information about your re- mortgage you have supplied; if I was a lawyer I would ask myself:

 

- why did you want to pay off your OH trustee in bankruptcy ?

 

- did you realise that if you re-mortgaged to do this you might lose your home ?

 

- if you were insistent on taking the general risk of increasing your mortgage to help pay off the trustee, what sort of mortgage was it ?

 

- was it an ordinary 'high street' mortgage from a reputable lender at normal interest rates ?

 

- or was it a particularly onerous mortgage with a dodgy lender like all these sub-prime loan sharks such as SPML (subsiduary of ghastly Lehman Bros whose bankruptcy destroyed the Global economy) ?

 

- what advice did your broker give you ? did he say "yeah, I can easily get you a mortgage and you can borrow pretty much what you want from a sub-prime lender because you can self certify what income you have - even if you were on State benefits; then a lawyer will instantly tell you that there is a case for legal action because the broker was not acting in your best interests.

 

- if the broker failed to tell you that it was possible to get a better mortgage and that it was almost certainly a very bad idea to pay off the trustee anyway with your money from your house then that begins to look like a broker acting improperly and that you might well have grounds for legal action.

 

- but what else might or might not have happened that could also indicate legal action ? No-one can possibly find out from you by asking you every possible question so as to painfully tease out all the details that would show possible causes of legal action.

 

This is why everyone needs to actually write the whole story of their own mortgage out with details of what they think might be wrong about it.

 

 

Thanks rocket1 for the advice and response you have given above. The information you have supplied has been very very useful. I am at the moment very busy with other things and I would love to tell you my story. I will post up how my mortgage was arranged by my broker very soon.

 

Thank you once again.

[rocket1]

I haven't been idle - just doing a lot of reading and general research which is needed to organise things.

 

But, I have to say, with over 1500 views of this thread I am very surprised more people haven't wanted to sign up to this idea of a class action.

 

What we badly need to do is be able to define various common scenarios where legal advisers say there is adequate cause to bring a case. This is why people need to write out the history of their mortgage.

 

I will get around to producing an example of what I mean. And what I also want to do is provide a list of the most typical and commonly experienced potential causes of action so people can see at a glance that they might well have a possibility of taking legal action against their lender for recovery of losses - which could be the entire amount of the mortgage or even more.

 

Worth making the effort to fight for, don't you think ?

 

I notice that Frustrated46 started this thread here which would tell us a lot if frustrated46 was still posting updates.

 

Does anyone know how to contact him/her ?

 

They really look useful. Read their thread they started here about miss-selling by virtue of law surrounding 'secret' commissions and see for yourself !

 

Look at post four in this thread which tells exactly why they and their miss-selling case would be useful.

 

I have also discovered a solicitor which has five offices and whose partners seem OK who claim to specialise in this area.

 

I am trying to get more information out of them.

 

 

homeowners for justice against mortgage racketeering

Edited January 7, 2010 by rocket1

[ryde]

rocket

great effort with website ,is there any chance of adding an edit facility to the posts facility similar to the one on here?

[rocket1]

rocket

great effort with website ,is there any chance of adding an edit facility to the posts facility similar to the one on here?

 

I will investigate the software options for an edit facility. But as I am simply using free blog software at the moment, options are limited.

 

The best way of you dealing with an edit problem after you have already posted a comment is simply to copy what you have written and re-do it again with the correct editing - making sure it is obvious which is the correct one, then the wrong one can be ignored and deleted.

 

~Unfortunately, to get exactly the website anyone really wants you have to start paying and also get involved in knowing how to deal with ruddy software nonsense. This is why people pay website designers to do it ! It is a computer nerd job.

 

Can we find a volunteer to do this for us ? We will need to upgrade an do it properly as soon as possible.

 

 

http://homeownersforjusticeagainstmortgageracketeering.wordpress.com/calling-all-homeowners/

[landy_alert]

Hi Rocket:)

 

Past victim of Swift Advances here offering support to your sterling efforts.

 

Landy x

[rocket1]

Many thanks for the offers of support - they are much appreciated !

 

Can anyone think of ways to spread the idea around the internet a bit.

 

I just can't understand how it works - using the internet to get support.

 

That is to say, I hear all these stories about some bit of utter trivia being posted on you tube or something, and then getting millions of hits etc in days; or some silly blog like Belle du Jour getting millions of viewers and ending up with a book deal for what is nothing more than boring voyeuristic pseudo porn.

 

So how do we progress to get hordes of people to sign up to this idea through the internet.

 

Any ideas anyone ?

[littledotty27]

How about setting a facebook group up?

[rocket1]

How about setting a facebook group up?

 

I have, but I don't know how to publicise it - get more members.

 

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&gid=200643624681

Edited January 9, 2010 by rocket1

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi All!

 

Rocket1,

 

I would be VERY interested in joiining the class action lawsuit.

 

 

As I have had a very bad repo experience plus the fact that I have a very good and vast understanding regarding the securitisation of mortgages that folks do not find out until it is too late - in my case post the repo.

 

 

Please feel free to contact me at any time as I am really determined to see to get redress and I hope my bad experience will enable others to benefit and gain redress too.

 

Cheers,

 

Nightmare4banks - Really looking forward to properly kick some a**!

[Orbital]

Computers drive me bonkers. I have just spent half an hour writing a post here and it was all lost when I added a quote from a previous post.

 

Maddening or what. Software writers need stringing up from the lamp posts for this kind of silliness.

 

Yes. In today's world every problem one encounters is always someone else's fault entirely isn't it. Never anything to do with something of your own making.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Orbital

[eagleforms]

I am with you on 2 counts.

1. We have been relentlessly pursued by The Woolwich (Barclays) over a repro where the judge gave them a suspended order based on Norgan's law and refused them an appeal. They then when to the judge's boss and got an appeal granted on the basis that it could prove to be an important action and Barclays would have it heard one way or another (and it would give that judge a bit of useful publicity).
   

We managed to find the money to pay off the arrears and a

Barclays to let us have the new repayments because our mortgage

is interest only and we had repaid some £15,000+ and interest was

being charged on the arrears. They did not reply. I wrote to them a

number of times and had no reply and in the end wrote to them to

say that as I had paid all the arrears that they wanted, I assumed

that the original amount loaned was the current balance as it was

an interest only mortgage. I then calculated the repayment based

on current interest rate they were charging and wrote to them to

tell them that that was what I would pay. Still no reply. after 5

months they sent me a statement that showed that they had

charged me interest for 5 months on the money that had been paid

off 5 months earlier. I have made a complaint to the FOS who are

looking at the case and maybe in 6 months time I will get to know of

their decision. I also found that they had debited my account with

over £7000 of Misc charges and despite me asking them to let me

know what they are for, have not had a reply about these either.

They are so big they believe they are above the law and can make

it up to suit themselves. I understand from the FOS that they have

not replied to them either.

2. The mortgage is a pension linked mortgage and when it was sold to

me a pension was set up with me and my employer. It transpired

that the pension would not cover the mortgage and I was not told

that should I be made redundant, the pension would be frozen

because at that time pension contributions were based on a

percentage of your income and no income no pension. Therefore, I

am now nearing the end of the mortgage, have been retired for 2

years (the fact that the mortgage carried on into my retirement

was not considered), and will have to sell the house to pay of the

mortgage. I will be complaining to the FOS about mis-selling.

I am with you all the way.

[enoughisenough]

Caggers 4 lurkers 3 (final score). Orbitals original post was a moralising high horse shocker with a measure of personal abuse thrown in for good measure. I am pleased however to note that the said fledgling has voluntarily moderated his/her post.

[sawyer]

Hi, spotted this today perhaps we can all add our 2 penny worth to these comments !!

 

Repossessions hit 14-year high as 46,000 lose their homes | Mail Online

[rocket1]

Sorry to have been absent for so long. Illness.

 

And with impeccable timing, I opened mail today which I had been unable even to open since Feb 19 owing to temperatures of 103 and being quite beyond anything more taxing than blinking.

 

Guess what, letter from SPML dated Feb 19 telling me I have eviction date set for March 15th.

 

I have just 12 days !

 

So now I really have to get my skates on get this case going.

 

I should be getting my mortgage interest paid in full at present as I am on benefits as a single parent bringing up a child full time. But this hasn't been paid owing to bureaucratic and other complications for over a year, but should be sortable.

 

The question is, if I fill out N244 and ask the judge for time to allow me to liaise with the benefit people to sort this out, will the Judge give me time or just say stuff you ? If I does I will be evicted.

 

BUT, it is now time get going with my claim, which is what I had in mind when I started this thread. Class action. My claim contains elements that nearly all of us here have experience of.

 

It amounts to mis-selling and downright fraud. I have both, and I believe I have evidence.

 

It's time to go get them. And where are all the rest of you with the same experiences ? Doesn't anyone actually want to do anything about all this ?

 

I am disappointed at what seems to be a spectacularly lukewarm response from viewers of this thread - over 2500 of them.

 

It seems to me that we do all suffer the same signifigant problem. We all seem to know that we have cases against these lenders, and we all talk endlessly about it. But absolutely nothing happens.

 

It occurs to me this is because, no matter how clever some of us might be, or how many little snippets and fragments of law we know or are discovering, we are not lawyers and cannot look at our own cases or those cases of other people and say, yes, that looks like a legal action is possible against the lender for whatever reason.

 

So, it seems to me that none of us will get anywhere at all unless we can tap into some (initially quite basic ) legal advice.

 

And to do that we need to outline our own cases/experiences to see and to allow others to see how a case might be brought against a lender.

 

It is simply not possible to proceed without these outlines for lawyers to look at.

 

This is why I suggested earlier in this thread that people write their cases out, so it is possible to pinpoint where the action is, so the speak, and to develop the possibility of taking legal action.

 

Legal action can only exist with a statement of case. It cannot exist as woolly mouthings and imprecations of how dreadful lenders are and general woffling an cursing on forums.

 

It needs more than that.

 

I would have happily outlined my case and certainly intended to as an example, but haven't had the time.

 

But, here's a small start.

 

- was on benefits looking after very partner and three small children. DHSS was paying mortgage interest in full to Alliance & Leics. DHSS suddenly spat venomously at me

[rocket1]

Here is the rest of my post which seemed to go missing as my computer was having a migraine - wot with all the hard work it's been doing lately, poor dear just can't cope!

 

But, here's a small start.

 

- I was on benefits looking after very ill partner and three small children. DHSS was paying mortgage interest in full to Alliance & Leics. DHSS suddenly spat venomously at me “you’re a dealer’ meaning because I told them I was selling my possession to keep afloat they decided I was claiming fraudulently. What a joke.

 

- DHSS stopped all benefits and demanded all my finance related documents. This results in Alliance & Leics repossessing, actually telling me ‘we will get you out of that house’ - a clear indications of pointless, meaningless malevolence.

 

- I am hurled into the subprime cess pit and hurriedly re-mortgage with Kensington because it is a better option than being homeless etc.

 

- Kensington mortgage rapidly becomes unmanagable so re-mortgage with ING, ditto, sell house to avoid repossession.

 

- Starting with mortgage of only £100k with Alliance & Leics, it has now ballooned to £283k and I am dazed and incompetent, not least because I have a seriously ill partner and three children.

 

- selling house for just over £400k, I’m left with just £80k and buy a basic, ex-council house for £161 000 with a fraudulent broker who knows I am unemployed etc. Lender is Spml. Churn mortgage nine months later to Birmingham Midshires on bad advice from another fraudulent broker who say he specialises in getting mortgages for people who are unemployed and on State benefits.

 

- Birmingham Midshires treat me like a piece of S**t (long story, will fill in later). they foreclose - repossess.

 

- In desperation I re-mortgage yet again using Capital One (the big American credit card company) brokers who are so devious it is almost beyond belief ( will fill in here too)

 

They tell me the lender SPML comes to their office a couple of days a week to check over final paperwork and approve loan for final money transfer to borrower at very last stage. The broker makes it clear the lender is in their office doing this job.

 

In other words, the broker is not remotely independent and the whole situation is completely fraudulent. Unsurprisingly, the minute Lehmans collapses, Capital One make their broker company completely vanish in an instant, very early on in the credit crunch, as they know from their other experiences in the USA, that they have been thoroughly fraudulent and are now trying to cover their tracks, double quick.

 

- SPML seemed to have just about doubled my monthly interest payments with various penalties ( a totally unfair, clear example of loan sharking to bring before a court.Parlianemnt/EU & uncle Tome Cobley).

 

- They have now issued second eviction order.

 

So, the bottom line is that I have been successively milked of at least £500 000 of equity in my house and am now threatened with homelessness and the inability to properly look after my eleven year old son. Aslo, with severe medical problems threatening to turn nasty and possibly kill me, I stand little chance of surviving this if the lender has their way.

 

Call me angry or what ?

 

Another aspect of this is that once I started having to deal with the severe illness of my partner and then became a ‘client of the State’ entirely dependent on their bloody handouts and mindlessly stupid bureaucracy, I found that almost every experience I had was one of State sponsored bureaucratic violence.

 

Take this little gem.

 

On questioning me about how I housed myself after I sold my house and was left with £80k, the council official dealing with my imminent eviction and homelessness issues said she was ‘gobsmacked’ that I had used the £80 k to actually buy a house. She said I should have used the money to rent until it ran out then claimed housing benefit.

 

She disapproved of people buying houses, and used her disapproval to make this bizarre claim I had made myself intentionally homeless and would therefore not receive any help from the council when I was evicted and could expect nothing more than a shop doorway to bed down with my eleven years old son for the night.

 

What a charmer !

 

On those grounds she pompously announced her decision that I had made myself intentionally homeless. She actually put that in writing.

 

Here’s another. I paid £85 to set up a company three years ago as part of process to commence work. the council saw this dormant company ( by virtue of their rather silly snooping activities) and then refused to allow me housing benefit. The company is a possession - like a table or a chair. It is worth nothing because it has never traded, it is entirely dormant and there are not even accounts for it.

 

Bureaucratic spite or what ?

Edited March 3, 2010 by rocket1

[rocket1]

I just cannot get my head around how when a borrower gets into some genuine difficulty, this is used as an excuse to effectively 'steal' huge amounts of money in 'penalties' which would be plainly just illegal if it wasn't for the weasel word 'contract' .

 

You signed a mortgage contract with small print which says we can extort money from you in an immoral manner should you ever have difficulties with your mortgage.

 

We need to get a petition going about this and get questions asked in Parliament etc. Get a regular campaign going with big name supporters like MPs etc.

 

This mortgage market is just plain wicked. And this is not just my opinion, obviously.

 

Others who hold this view clearly include that Parliamentary Select Committee who recently produced that excoriating report, and various USA Federal States who brought an action in 2006 against one lender, Ameriquest, which was settled out of court.

 

If that was done there, it can be done here too. We need to find out more about that case and the documentation outlining that case.

 

Any offers of some help with that. I don't have the time to do everything ?

 

Frankly, with all this body of information coming out of the woodwork about the mortgage lenders here in the UK, I am completely astonished that there is such incredible inertia that no meaningful actions about fraudulent lending practices seem to have taken place yet.

[rocket1]

Southern Pacific Mortgage Limited Hides Money From Lehmans Creditors In Charitable Trusts Edited March 3, 2010 by rocket1

[rocket1]

This was a comment left on the HOMEOWNERS FOR JUSTICE AGAINST MORTGAGE RACKETEERING website this morning.

 

I copy it here because it is from someone in the USA who is obviously incredulous as to why the banks are not being pursued here in the UK by vigourous legal action for their dishonest and immoral behaviour in the mortgage market with their racketeering activities.

 

 

March 4, 2010 at 7:57 am

 

 

Poster Probably Guilty Says:

 

 

 

'Well as all of you know by now the banks have caused the crash of real estate values and The Great Recession.

 

They did this by gambling with your house mortgage on the Las Vegas stock market.

 

Wamu (a lender) was asked to fund crummy mortgages and then sell them as mortgage backed securities. Then everyone else got into the game.

 

Bank of America apparently didn’t have a building to sell in San Francisco like they did in the 1980’s, so they needed to be bailed out this time because they didn’t learn their lesson.

 

Indy Mac (a USA mortgage lender) is meaner than three gila monsters following you after wounding you with one bite waiting for you to drop dead so they can eat you.

 

Chase (a USA bank) isn’t so friendly either.

 

Wells Fargo (another USA bank) customers are getting fake collection calls.

 

Racketeering Influenced Corrupt Organization RICO.

 

All the banks that participated in mortgage backed securities need to be sued collectively because they caused the economy to collapse and your house value to drop.

 

The banks also caused the rental market to lose value because they pay tenants cash for keys to vacate, therefore encouraging them not to pay the landlord and the tenant just waits until the owner can’t make the payments and the bank forecloses.

 

Even the real estate agents boldly go up to tenants and say you can stay in the property and I will help you because the owner is also losing their other properties. That tenant wil now quit paying the owner landlord.

 

The banks conspired to elevate real estate values to give out more loans and make more money on commisions.

 

Isn’t it obvious?

 

Why hasn’t anybody done class action lawsuits yet? What are you waiting for? Its massive fraud !'

 

 

 

Yup, it is massive fraud, I agree wholeheartedly with that. So why is everyone so apathetic.

 

If all you mortgage holders in the vice like grip of these dishonest, fraudulent sub-prime lenders simply roll over and do nothing while your lender puts the screws on you by imposing massive 'penalty' charges and then ultimately throwing you out of your house and probably charging you a huge 'early redemption penalty' as well (financial jargon for pure theft) then why don't you want to do the one thing you can do ?

 

That is spend some time joining forces to take part in a campaign to persuade the Office of Fair trading to take that legal action on behalf of us all.

 

We are just a hairs breath away from this happening.

 

It just needs the largest possible number of people to make specific complaints about 'unfair' trading practices to the Office of Fair Trading. If they get enough complaints, and if members of Parliament get enough complaints, then legal action will be taken.

[rocket1]

This was a comment left on the HOMEOWNERS FOR JUSTICE AGAINST MORTGAGE RACKETEERING website this morning.

 

I copy it here because it is from someone in the USA who is obviously incredulous as to why the banks are not being pursued here in the UK by vigourous legal action for their dishonest and immoral behaviour in the mortgage market with their racketeering activities.

 

 

March 4, 2010 at 7:57 am

 

 

Poster Probably Guilty Says:

 

 

 

'Well as all of you know by now the banks have caused the crash of real estate values and The Great Recession.

 

They did this by gambling with your house mortgage on the Las Vegas stock market.

 

Wamu (a lender) was asked to fund crummy mortgages and then sell them as mortgage backed securities. Then everyone else got into the game.

 

Bank of America apparently didn’t have a building to sell in San Francisco like they did in the 1980’s, so they needed to be bailed out this time because they didn’t learn their lesson.

 

Indy Mac (a USA mortgage lender) is meaner than three gila monsters following you after wounding you with one bite waiting for you to drop dead so they can eat you.

 

Chase (a USA bank) isn’t so friendly either.

 

Wells Fargo (another USA bank) customers are getting fake collection calls.

 

Racketeering Influenced Corrupt Organization RICO.

 

All the banks that participated in mortgage backed securities need to be sued collectively because they caused the economy to collapse and your house value to drop.

 

The banks also caused the rental market to lose value because they pay tenants cash for keys to vacate, therefore encouraging them not to pay the landlord and the tenant just waits until the owner can’t make the payments and the bank forecloses.

 

Even the real estate agents boldly go up to tenants and say you can stay in the property and I will help you because the owner is also losing their other properties. That tenant wil now quit paying the owner landlord.

 

The banks conspired to elevate real estate values to give out more loans and make more money on commisions.

 

Isn’t it obvious?

 

Why hasn’t anybody done class action lawsuits yet? What are you waiting for? Its massive fraud !'

 

 

 

Yup, it is massive fraud, I agree wholeheartedly with that. So why is everyone so apathetic.

 

If all you mortgage holders in the vice like grip of these dishonest, fraudulent sub-prime lenders simply roll over and do nothing while your lender puts the screws on you by imposing massive 'penalty' charges and then ultimately throwing you out of your house and probably charging you a huge 'early redemption penalty' as well (financial jargon for pure theft) then why don't you want to do the one thing you can do ?

 

That is spend some time joining forces to take part in a campaign to persuade the Office of Fair trading to take that legal action on behalf of us all.

 

We are just a hairs breath away from this happening.

 

It just needs the largest possible number of people to make specific complaints about 'unfair' trading practices to the Office of Fair Trading. If they get enough complaints, and if members of Parliament get enough complaints, then legal action will be taken.

[rocket1]

A quick update which should interest you all.

 

Today, I filed an official complaint with the Financial Ombudsman's office about me being mis-sold a mortgage three years ago by SPML, and more particularly the broker, who was a subsidiary company of the credit card people, Capital One. I will describe details of this mis-selling later, when I have more time. It would appear to be a very strong case; we'll see.

 

This is how fighting back against these dishonest lenders works.

 

- You could choose to spend huge amounts of money employing a lawyer to take a lender or broker to court (or be part of a class action, which will still cost all that money which has to be found from somewhere).

 

- it appears no one will get legal aid because in the very own words of the CAB person I saw today 'The Government have destroyed the legal aid system. Even we at the CAB really struggle to find a legal aid lawyer to use'.

 

Lawyers no longer want to do any legal aid work as the Government refuses to pay them properly. So, legal aid is completely withering away.

 

 

- BUT There is a different and much, much easier route, and I really would like you all to pay attention carefully.

 

If you believe you have a case for mis-selling or similar - any appropriate case of complaint against either a lender or broker, what you do is this.

 

- First of all you write a letter of complaint, setting out the nature of your complaint, to the lender or broker and ask them to respond back.

 

- if there is no response (most likely) or you are not satisfied with the response (which is most likely to just be a fob off if you do get any response at all) then you telephone the Financial Ombudsman, or write setting out the nature of the complaint you have against the broker or lender.

 

The Ombudsman will then liaise with you in a totally non-legal and informal manner to obtain as much information as is necessary for the Ombudsman to investigate your side of the story.

 

It is less onerous in terms of providing the sort of cast iron evidence needed for a court. In short, it is a much easier process to build a case, it would seem. But I'm sure there is a down side of one sort or another.

 

The Ombudsman will also investigate the lender's or broker's side of the story and weigh the balance of probability to decide whether a broker or lender has 'ripped you off' in some way or otherwise misbehaved.

 

- If the Ombudsman decides your complaint is correct and you are right and finds in your favour, the Ombudsman then considers any losses you have incurred, including losses for damages such as stress etc as well as money losses from the lending process and rip off penalty fees and Early Redemption penalties etc.

 

- The Ombudsman then arrives at a figure and tells the lender or broker who has acted wrongly to pay you what the Ombudsman tells them to pay you up to the maximum figure of £100 000 per separate complaint. So three separate complaints about three sub-prime mortgages in a row could mean you get £300 000. £100 000 for each mortgage complained successfully about.

 

There is no problem about extracting the money because the law says that any decision by the Ombudsman telling a financial organisation to cough up to right a wrong the ombudsman thinks they have committed, is binding in law and the financial organisation has no choice but the pay up or be put out of business. The Ombudsman is a compensation service to compensate people wronged by financial organisations. That's their own words.

 

So, when I asked everyone to write down their mortgage experiences, this is what that is for. If you don't write down those mortgage experiences, then it will not be possible to pick out of the narrative what points of law to complain to the Ombudsman about.

 

What we now need to do is to list all the common mistakes brokers and lenders make which leaves them open to complaints of mis-selling and other types of complaint.

 

We need to list all those causes and examples of mis-selling etc.

 

It will be helpful if we all have access to reading other people's stories to see examples of where mis-selling has taken place and is upheld by the Ombudsman. As I said previously, there should be no problem about anyone writing up their stories, because they should be completely anonymised - easy enough to do.

Edited March 9, 2010 by rocket1

[eagleforms]

Well done Rocket. Hopefully the FOS will ask that your repo case is postponed until they have done their investigations and come to a conclusion. It can take quite a long time for this to happen -Icomplained to them last July about Barclays and it is still going on. It seems to be looked after by an Adjudicator and if you do not like his decision, you can then ask for the matter to go before an Ombudsman.

Hope you feel better soon and this terrible time for you improves.